Discussion [Discussion] Release Notes version 1.6

[DeletedUser]

@Katwijk KP aren't "points" - in the context, it was clear I was talking about rank p cityoints.

The important non-PVP concept is that I can ignore my city for a few days, WITHOUT risk to anything that I've already obtained.

This may be true for you, given your personal approach to the game....but not for players who play Inno's game. Remember that they wrote "Ranking Score is a good benchmark for the progress of your city. "

With the introduction of competitive rank score points, we most certainly risk losing the place we've worked hard to obtain.

One has to put these points into perspective to understand how significant they are:

A tournament win of even 630 points would be the equivalent of 10 permanent grid spaces at my current game level. (At the end of Fairy, my city is scoring 63 rank points / grid space total. Without snails, this is pretty much as high as one can get - for other non-snail players 630 points would be more like 12-15 grids).

As a large city, if I compete hard only once a month, by the end of the year I'll have the equivalent scoring of 120 grid spaces. Not only that, but the advantage will be cumulative, because any large city can place any time they choose - an outcome not available to smaller cities.
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[DeletedUser629]

We are told specifically during the tutorial that in this game we have the choice of fighting or negotiating! We have a quest that tells every new players both paths are acceptable ways of playing the game! Let me repeat this, it is Inno's own tutorial on how to play the game that tells players they don't have to fight if they don't wish to, that negotiating is just a good way to play the game.

Then, why are the tournaments so heavily skewed against non fighters?
Fighting is pretty time consuming, so it will be very hard for players who play in more than one world to compete that way in all their worlds. So what this does is in fact discourage players from playing ( and spending cash i might add), in more than one world, since any city beyond their main fighting one will be severely gimped and unable to do anything in the tournaments.

So it is only unfair but it is also a stupid move, because the more cities a player has, the more likely he is to buy diamonds and hence increase Inno's revenue!

When the tournaments were introduced, cater costs were laughably low, and conquering provinces was way too easy. Nobody was fighting because it wasn't necessary. They should be a bit more time consuming, however, players should be able to cater some provinces, but at this point, many are unable to do so due to the extreme costs. We need to find a fine mix between catering and fighting. It shouldn't be all about one of them, just like with normal provinces. The developers didn't bring in the barracks and units just for show, players are expected to use them every once in a while.

 

[DeletedUser629]

As your also on the dutch server, have you looked at the top players? the ones who spend hundreds of euro's last 1-2 months alone?

nr1: ranked 204
nr2: no rank
nr 3: rank 1104
nr 4: rank 992
nr 5: rank 340
nr 6: no rank
nr 7: rank 12
nr 8: rank 332
nr 9: rank 126
nr 10: rank 1

so thats 2 out of the 10 big spenders

when we look at the tournament t10, there is obviously the national ranked nr 10 there as the nr1 ranked player.
the second spender in the t10 is the nr 17 who spend 60 euro visibly since the introduction of the fairies.

When we start to compare both t10 ranked players (ignoring the one thats in both t10)

the tournament player spend visibly at least 60 euro's since the fairies, the not ranked players spend visibly 4280 euro since the introduction of the fairies.

If people who spend well stop playing because they dont like fighting all the time you seem to loose a significant amount of money, it's a different type of audience who like to fight. so I think it's a risky move at least. if these people can no longer keep up because they need to fight they might stop playing or spending, which might leave a big dent in Innogames Pocket. I am pretty sure the builders are the biggest single source of income in this game. but big spenders also leave quite a mark.

At this point, the top players on NL simply won't bother with the tournaments. They don't need 100 points. This could change when they can compete for 1000 points. Whether it's a risky move, time will tell, but those top players on NL are known for their heavy spending. I wouldn't be surprised if they would do it with the tournaments as well once they see the increase in points they can win.

 

[DeletedUser]

When the tournaments were introduced, cater costs were laughably low, and conquering provinces was way too easy. Nobody was fighting because it wasn't necessary. They should be a bit more time consuming, however, players should be able to cater some provinces, but at this point, many are unable to do so due to the extreme costs. We need to find a fine mix between catering and fighting. It shouldn't be all about one of them, just like with normal provinces. The developers didn't bring in the barracks and units just for show, players are expected to use them every once in a while.

I agree with you. First week the costs were too low. However, they were increased after that, and the way they were last week, before this last change, was actually a good balance. If you did only catering you managed to do a fair amount of provinces, but nowhere close to the ones who could do if you fought them, which i felt was fine. I only cater in beta, so I have tested this extensively, and I can tell you, it wasn't too cheap just before this change, as I was spending over a hundred thousand goods just to do the first 4 provinces up to level 6. That's just for 4 provinces! The weeks that was my boost and i tried to do a bit more I had to spend a lot more than that which meant spending more than half of all my goods.
So it was expensive, and fighting was still the better option, but it was doable. In the normal provinces I only negotiate as well, which means it is slower for me, but that's fine as I know I can still do it even if a bit more slowly.
Now the tournaments are completely unbalanced, i didn't even bother doing one province at level 1 because it would just be a waste of goods for the rewards offered.
Go back to the previous costs if you are looking for balance, right now the tournaments are over for players who don't fight.

 

[DeletedUser651]

When the tournaments were introduced, cater costs were laughably low, and conquering provinces was way too easy. Nobody was fighting because it wasn't necessary. They should be a bit more time consuming, however, players should be able to cater some provinces, but at this point, many are unable to do so due to the extreme costs. We need to find a fine mix between catering and fighting. It shouldn't be all about one of them, just like with normal provinces.

I agree with Madzix. The costs last week were close to the correct number, this week they have gone overboard.

I think the biggest problem is that the devs are looking at OUR progress and freaking out at how fast we flew through. However, we are not representative of a normal player. Beta players have been here longer and we are the few left who are very advanced. We sat here forever waiting for new content and accumulating hundreds of thousands of goods. Sure, we flew through the tourneys in the beginning, but those goods we accumulated are quickly being diminished. Anyone just coming to the game now won't have that huge store of goods to spend.

It is like testing monopoly by giving your testers 100 million dollars to spend. That's not how many a regular player has to spend so you aren't testing reality. I can tell you from comments that the newer players aren't even happy about the tournaments because the catering costs are too high. Isn't that sad?

Too long? Didn't read? Catering costs need to be lowered.

 

[DeletedUser]

I think the biggest problem is that the devs are looking at OUR progress and freaking out at how fast we flew through.

You keep thinking like a rational human, not like a developer. They don't really care how fast players fly through - as evidenced by the fact that we can pay (and pay) and fly through as fast as we want.

The testing was to find the amount of frustration we would absorb before we started paying to fight.

We have yet to see a single Elvenar decision which can't be explained by this algorithm: amount of frustration necessary to generate maximum income.

 

[DeletedUser651]

They don't really care how fast players fly through

I meant, they looked at our progress and how fast we flew through without spending money.

 

[DeletedUser283]

somebody wrote something in the line of "tournament rewards are for top players and big spenders"
I am ranked 460
I made it to rank 29 in this week's tournament
I only negotiated encounters that were asking for my boosted goods and nothing else than my boosted goods (apart from supplies)
the rest I fought
and I took the first province to level 6
and I do not buy diamonds
eat that, bitter people

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes, @Philplessis ...but we all know you're a fighting genius!

It would be helpful to hear your opinion: how often do you think you could repeat this? Next week also, or did you lose fighters?

How much rank score did you receive in that place?

 

[DeletedUser651]

I agree with Philplessis. Each week I have been looking on beta and the people doing well in the tournaments aren't the very top players each week. Sure, they are all advanced but many are in the top 200. Plus, we are only on the first rounds. Wait until they go back around with the goods again. The people who used all their goods to get their boosts to the top level won't have the same incentive to go nuts again even if they did have the resources to do it.

I don't think we can really know how this is going to play out in the future. I like that the points have been increased. It adds another element to doing well in the game. Now you can focus on something other than just buying snails and copying everyone else's city for the best layout.

 

[DeletedUser283]

Yes, @Philplessis ...but we all know you're a fighting genius!
It would be helpful to hear your opinion: how often do you think you could repeat this? Next week also, or did you lose fighters?
How much rank score did you receive in that place?

no, not a genius, just an experienced FoE player
now, next week will certainly not be the same,
of course I did loose troops, but I am loosing troops permanently : while the tournament is off, I am fighting in provinces for relics, kps and expansions;
and I am training troops permanently as well, no stock
and barracks are way too slow, while we're at it (but I digress...)
this week I gave it an extra effort because scrolls is one of my boosted goods;
next week I will not go to such extremes because there is less in store for me; no negotiation, no level 6, just the good old fun of taking the guys (and gals! gotta love those sorceresses III) out to the battlefield and leading them to glorious victory (or to death in honor)

 

[DeletedUser629]

Fighting is really easy as long as you use the right units, and place them in the right spots. It could be useful to create a thread about how to fight in tournaments since players encounter different enemies there. This way, players can fight encounters with minimal losses to their army.

 

[DeletedUser338]

Honestly, the previous catering costs weren't perfect either. Having to pay practically nothing for the first few provinces made no sense whatsoever. We basically got free stuff. I do think that the costs are a bit too high right now though, especially because you HAVE to do 8 fights/negotiations before you really get anything in return. Plus, newbies still can't fight these provinces simply because they're up against Paladin III and other advanced troops. So yes, there are some problems, but the tournament ranking isn't one of them.
If anything, that gives us some more options. I like the idea of rewarding people who actually play this game (instead of those that just throw the most money at it). And sure, the big spenders will always be the ones to have a spot in the top, but maybe, just maybe, we'll be able to see some skilled fighters up there too.

And let's be honest, this gives us some interesting options for the future too. If tournaments are going to give points, what else will? We might see some interesting ways to get points in the near (or far) future.

 

[DeletedUser283]

Fighting is really easy as long as you use the right units, and place them in the right spots. It could be useful to create a thread about how to fight in tournaments since players encounter different enemies there. This way, players can fight encounters with minimal losses to their army.

here is a start :
base config : 3 granite golems, 2 sorceressesIII
many distance units (including mages) : 2 granite golems, 3 sorceressesIII
cannoneers involved : 1 sword acrobat, 2 granite golems, 2 sorceressesIII
all distance units : (including mages) : 5 sorceressesIII, except when cannoneers are there (then 1 sword acrobat, 4 sorceressesIII)

 

[DeletedUser]

And sure, the big spenders will always be the ones to have a spot in the top, but maybe, just maybe, we'll be able to see some skilled fighters up there too.

All great and wonderful...but where's the icing for skilled builders? Fighters get to rack up thousands of score points?

We might as well go on an advertising campaign to inform all entering players that the game is now biased towards fighters. Sounds like something to do with my time during the 3 hours breaks between active play time.

 

[DeletedUser1397]

Just spend your money on better strategy games. Another disappointing update from Inno.

 

[DeletedUser338]

@bobbipiazza Skilled builders already get more points by placing their buildings more efficiently. That being said, there doesn't go all that much skill into building. You simply click and wait. Now, if building would work like Tetris, we might have to talk about building giving more points again.

 

[DeletedUser118]

Well, I'd definitely turn back on my sound if this song ran in the background:

 

[DeletedUser651]

One issue I see right now however is the timing of the tournament. On the US server, for those on the west coast including California, it starts at 10am on the first day and 2 am on the second level. Now that we have to do a lot of fighting, that means it takes a lot of time. I think it is a problem to have the second round start in the middle of the night and expect people to have to be on or punish them by not having enough time for them to finish all the rounds. In order to do day two with fighting, if you live in one the biggest sections of the United States and you are on Pacific time, you have to spend a few hours from 2am - 4am on day two.

That doesn't sound like a good time to have a lot of people be able to participate.

 

[DeletedUser283]

same problem in Europe
1) not everyone is German, and not everyone has finished dinner by 20:00; beginning the tournament at 20:00 and completing the first province by 20:30 or before is not for me
2) in case I could start the tournament on time, next level of province 1 would open around 12:30 or shortly before on the next day (lunch time, anyone ?); level 2 of province 1 would be completed by 13:00
3) level 3 of province 1 would open around 05:00 (yes, A.M.) on the next day, and I could certainly not be there

I was able to reach level 6 this time because I accidentally stayed up late on Saturday night, and when I looked at my city I saw that I just received a new squad of golems and that level 5 just opened, so I went for it and could complete level 6 by 19:40 on Sunday;
this is pure luck at its best ....