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Discussion Winter Magic

Buttrflwr

Well-Known Member
Hi guys,

Thank you for taking the time to share your ideas on how to improve the system. As stated above, of course changing the whole system before the Live release is impossible and canceling the event isn't an option either. Instead of that, it would be more valuable if we could gather some ideas on how to improve the current system before the Live release. Please refrain from throwing mud (and of course our developers also play the game themselves) and try to bring a bit of constructive value to this discussion.

Right now, we have 2 main suggestions on the list, which is lower the amount of ribbons needed per present and increase the value of the filler prizes. Are there any other improvements you'd like to suggest to make this event more appealing to you?
Hi @Marindor THe ribbon cost definitely needs to be lowered, to go from having the choice of spending 18 for something I WANTED (like the time instants) to having to spend 60 for something I probably don't need is not a fair one.
The "filler prizes" as you call them are usually what I play the events for, time instants and KP packs. Rarely do I go for a building as space is so limited, but when I DO go for a building, I want to spend my chances at getting that building the way I want to, via picking chests with "filler" prizes I can actually use. This is basically a gambling lottery. I know it was a lottery of sorts before, but we could pick the game we wanted to play. Do I want to spend 18 and possibly get timer instants if I DON'T get the prize I am going for, or do I want to spend 120 and maybe get one of those "filler" prizes if I don't get the prize I am going for. This way, we have no control over either what we spend, or what we are spinning for. And who has oodles and oodles of ribbons to spend for all 16? I usually get one to 3 spin chances before the thing resets the next day. That is just not fair to those of us who do have full time jobs, and can't spend work time playing the game to get those quests done bam bam bam.
I do commend you on the presentation, it is pretty cool looking, but just not practical for many of your player base needs. PLEASE fix it. :)

Thanks for listening!
 

Verde

Well-Known Member
Also, big events typically stay in beta for 14 days before they're released on live, so there's plenty of time to make our voices heard. All I'm saying is to not waste this time by doing trench warfare, which leads nowhere (or anyhow nowhere good for us the players, since decision-making is ultimately up to the devs, and all we can do is give feedback).
I guess my concern was this is yet another event which hasn't been well thought through ... it would be unfortunate if the idea came across to the developers that it's quite acceptable to deliver poorly considered events into beta and then just tweak it a bit based on feedback.
Your suggestions are good and constructive ... just feel it would be better if it didn't keep coming to the point of needing major rescue efforts.
 

Calenmir

Well-Known Member
So my question is... are these constructive comments going to be used just to get this particular event through the live game and then your going to trash this event type forever? Or are these constructive comments being collected and possibly implemented because you intend to keep this lottery type event around?
The changes aren't going to make the event style palatable. So I hope to find out if these comments are only being used for this one time (never to be seen again) event style/lottery or if they're being gathered because the intent is to keep it around?
 

DeletedUser3003

Guest
Well, since no major improvements would be possible in live servers, at least lower the amount of ribbons needed per present and increase the value of the filler prizes. Before each chest had an average cost of 25 (now 60), so something close to that value is extremely necessary.
 

Burger Meister Meister

Well-Known Member
Hi guys,

Just a reminder: Please keep your posts constructive. Also when you're not happy with something, sarcasm isn't going to get us anywhere. It's perfectly fine to express the fact you're unhappy, but please do so in a constructive way and let us know your thoughts on how to improve the current system instead of just bashing the current setup. Thank you.
@Marindor

Okay you want constructive criticism. I have been very polite in all of my posts so far but let me be blunt.
I have not yet read a positive post on the new rewards system. No one has yet complained about the previous 3 chest system. No one has expressed an opinion of being bored with the 3 chest system. In the players opinion there was nothing wrong with the 3 chest system, in fact they liked it. Why change it?

My recommendation is to trash the new mechanics and go back to the previous 3 chest system. No one is accepting the new mechanics and you are discouraging your players. You make your money through in-game purchases. You aren't going to get any in-game purchases if your players are not happy. Think about it!

You said; "let us know your thoughts on how to improve the current system instead of just bashing the current setup".
Take a step back here and look at it from our point of view. We like the previous 3 chest system. We didn't want it to change. The new system is so bad that we can't see any way of fixing the new system without getting rid of it completely. So when you say " do so in a constructive way ". The only constructive way is to get rid of it and stop making unwanted changes.

I myself am a software developer of 35 years in the Industry. One thing that I have learnt over those years is that you have to listen to your client or you will be out of work.

Don't change things that players really like unless it is broken or you can offer something better. This new mechanics IS NOT better
If you want to offer a change consult with your players before introducing it or better yet offer the option of being able to play either the new way or the old way and let us decide which is better. Don't just pull the rug out from underneath us.

The Beta world is a great place to get feedback but it might be too late in your development cycle. In my industry Beta is where the bugs are worked out.
You do however have options; you can listen to the feedback in the Beta world and act upon the wishes of your Beta players or create a new alternative "Alpha" World where you can introduce new features into the game to see if your players accept them or not .

It is acceptable to have bugs in an Alpha world, The concept of an Alpha world would be the introduction and feedback on new features and changes before they hit the Beta world where bugs are fixed.

Please take this to heart. We are not just blindly bashing the new system. The new system is so bad that we are asking for a return to the old system.

Thanks for reading.
If you want further opinion or insight you are welcome to contact me and I am willing to share my years of experience with software clients.

BMMB
 

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
@Marindor

Okay you want constructive criticism. I have been very polite in all of my posts so far but let me be blunt.
I have not yet read a positive post on the new rewards system. No one has yet complained about the previous 3 chest system. No one has expressed an opinion of being bored with the 3 chest system. In the players opinion there was nothing wrong with the 3 chest system, in fact they liked it. Why change it?

My recommendation is to trash the new mechanics and go back to the previous 3 chest system. No one is accepting the new mechanics and you are discouraging your players. You make your money through in-game purchases. You aren't going to get any in-game purchases if your players are not happy. Think about it!

You said; "let us know your thoughts on how to improve the current system instead of just bashing the current setup".
Take a step back here and look at it from our point of view. We like the previous 3 chest system. We didn't want it to change. The new system is so bad that we can't see any way of fixing the new system without getting rid of it completely. So when you say " do so in a constructive way ". The only constructive way is to get rid of it and stop making unwanted changes.

I myself am a software developer of 35 years in the Industry. One thing that I have learnt over those years is that you have to listen to your client or you will be out of work.

Don't change things that players really like unless it is broken or you can offer something better. This new mechanics IS NOT better
If you want to offer a change consult with your players before introducing it or better yet offer the option of being able to play either the new way or the old way and let us decide which is better. Don't just pull the rug out from underneath us.

The Beta world is a great place to get feedback but it might be too late in your development cycle. In my industry Beta is where the bugs are worked out.
You do however have options; you can listen to the feedback in the Beta world and act upon the wishes of your Beta players or create a new alternative "Alpha" World where you can introduce new features into the game to see if your players accept them or not .

It is acceptable to have bugs in an Alpha world, The concept of an Alpha world would be the introduction and feedback on new features and changes before they hit the Beta world where bugs are fixed.

Please take this to heart. We are not just blindly bashing the new system. The new system is so bad that we are asking for a return to the old system.

Thanks for reading.
If you want further opinion or insight you are welcome to contact me and I am willing to share my years of experience with software clients.

BMMB
so wheres the constructive part? :) trashing is not constructive, its destructive :p

If Elvenar is like FoE (which it is) expect this event type to stay. Every year around xmas it will be back.
Accept it as a truth, and try to make suggestions so we can like this event type.
 

baypen

Well-Known Member
3rd time in row - supplies (produce, gain, produce) - amounts are so high,, that I need a whole day ... for 15 ribbons = no chance for opening a "present".
Thats not what I expect from an event, makes no sense.
As it came 3 times in a row, I will need until tomorrow - so 2,5 days for 3x15 ribbons -> no way to open any"present" for days !!!!!!, not even to think of a daily prize :))))
For good luck the prices are not worth to be upset, are useless most of them.
 
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DeletedUser1657

Guest
I have not yet read a positive post on the new rewards system. No one has yet complained about the previous 3 chest system. No one has expressed an opinion of being bored with the 3 chest system. In the players opinion there was nothing wrong with the 3 chest system, in fact they liked it. Why change it?
Either you need to read more or weren't around long enough. There was definitely criticism of the previous system. Sadly one of the biggest flaws has followed to this system.
 

DeletedUser1953

Guest
my suggestion: return to the 3 chests system ^^
A way to test, because not we simulate in our head how this happens because we do not have enough ribban and no good daily price ^^

And because we know now that the cost is insane, we keep the rubbans, because we know that when you will change the system, people that has tested will not be rewarded or have compensation but only penalised !
 

Burger Meister Meister

Well-Known Member
Hi guys,

Thank you for taking the time to share your ideas on how to improve the system. As stated above, of course changing the whole system before the Live release is impossible and canceling the event isn't an option either. Instead of that, it would be more valuable if we could gather some ideas on how to improve the current system before the Live release. Please refrain from throwing mud (and of course our developers also play the game themselves) and try to bring a bit of constructive value to this discussion.

Right now, we have 2 main suggestions on the list, which is lower the amount of ribbons needed per present and increase the value of the filler prizes. Are there any other improvements you'd like to suggest to make this event more appealing to you?
Hi @Marindor

I agree with the previous suggestions of reducing the cost from 60 ribbons to something lower like 20 or even 23 which was the average for the 3 chest system and for replacing the filler prizes with something more valuable. These are a good start and will make the event more "playable" in the short term but will not add to the fun of the event.

The big problem with this event is the lack of strategy

In order to fix this current system you need to find a way to remove the randomness/casino effect and introduce some form of strategy.
There may actually be a way to do this in the short term with the current setup. This change also has the bonus of looking very much like the 3 chest system but with very few changes.

You will need the following changes;
- Do not hide all 16 prizes, leave them open for viewing. Do not include the daily prize in the 16 prizes.
- Maintain the same 4x4 grid of prizes.
- Add a button at the bottom of each column of prizes (ie add 4 new buttons).
- Pressing a button at the bottom of the column will randomly select either a prize from the column above the button or the daily prize. Odds of winning a prize can be equal (ie 20% ie 4 prizes + daily = 5 prizes) or different as determined by the developers. Odds of winning a daily prize can be set by the developers to be either the same as the prizes above it or different as appropriate.
- The entire prize board reshuffles after selecting a prize.
- Don't need the reshuffle prize anymore.

This adds a degree of strategy and should not be difficult to implement.
The graphics is already in place, the random selection is already in place but would need to be focused per column rather than for the entire board.
The board already reshuffles.
The big change would be to add 4 new buttons at the bottom of each column.

Thanks,
BMMB
 

zipo

New Member
The difficulty are inconsistent with chapter, i am at the beginning chapter 4 and it gives (for 16 ribbons) :
1573948292310.png

How do i this with my manufactory, max level 8:
1573948329710.png


9800/268 => 36, with 6 manufactories => it takes 54h ! (sure i can use spells but even it takes a lot of spell and time !)
But it unclears, it is the sum of marbre+T2+T3 (seems the quests change with another amount if i see the bug report, and a lot of more T2 ? If it is the case, it is absurd) or i need 9800 marbles, i will check tomorrow, i can collect T2 & T1.
 
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baypen

Well-Known Member
The big change would be to add 4 new buttons at the bottom of each column.
This idea sound very good to me.
Maybe is not even necessary to add 4 new buttons - if you don´t need any more reveal, reshuffle and double, you only need to erase one of the unliked fillers and then you can simly adapt the last row as the "selection button", or am I wrong?
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
But it unclears, it is the sum of marbre+T2+T3 (seems the quests change with another amount if i see the bug report, and a lot of more T2 ? If it is the case, it is absurd) or i need 9800 marbles
By default it shows amount of T3 goods required, but as soon as you start collecting T1 it would switch to something like 3000 marble, which is a bit more than 3h production of your city if you have max relics boost. Max boost is obviously not possible at your chapter unless you stop progressing through tech tree, and that's why quests are bad balanced for low chapters.
 
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zipo

New Member
By default it shows amount of T3 goods required, but as soon as you start collecting T1 it would switch to something like 3000 marble, which is a bit more than 3h production of your city if you have max relics boost. Max boost is obviously not possible at your chapter unless you stop progressing through tech tree, and that's why quests are bad balanced for low chapters.
Thanks, you are right, i do a test with time reduction, and you have right :
1573952831431.png


And it is not a bug ? Strange ! (https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/inde...agic-quest-condition-doesnt-make-sense.14159/)
 

Burger Meister Meister

Well-Known Member
This idea sound very good to me.
Maybe is not even necessary to add 4 new buttons - if you don´t need any more reveal, reshuffle and double, you only need to erase one of the unliked fillers and then you can simly adapt the last row as the "selection button", or am I wrong?
That would work as well but you would need to change the prizes from 16 to 12. Not sure which change is easier.
 

SirSmithy

Well-Known Member
Hi guys,

Thank you for taking the time to share your ideas on how to improve the system. As stated above, of course changing the whole system before the Live release is impossible and canceling the event isn't an option either. Instead of that, it would be more valuable if we could gather some ideas on how to improve the current system before the Live release. Please refrain from throwing mud (and of course our developers also play the game themselves) and try to bring a bit of constructive value to this discussion.

Right now, we have 2 main suggestions on the list, which is lower the amount of ribbons needed per present and increase the value of the filler prizes. Are there any other improvements you'd like to suggest to make this event more appealing to you?
A third option: If you win the daily prize the board should be reshuffled.
this is always a headache how to find the shuffle tile after you won the daily prize.
 

MinMax Gamer

Well-Known Member
Quite frankly, I would prefer that no changes to the event would be made for live. This way it would be easier (quite easy, actually) to completely ignore this event. This is not me being snarky / sarcastic. I believe that the core mechanics of this setup is broken, and minor adjustments are not going to cut it as far as I am concerned. We're trying to put lipstick on a pig here.

My biggest worry is that we would get some relatively minor modifications here, and then developers will call it a day, and we will be stuck with this setup for a long, long time. I'd rather have them go to the drawing board for some more extensive changes after this event it done. And unlike "That Other Game" that we seem to be comparing a lot to, Elvenar so far had only one ongoing event type. If that would be one of many different concurrent setups, then whatever, I can skip one event a year. I don't want to see this mechanics in every single event coming forward, cost adjustments or not.

And one more point on "filler" prizes. We've just got Chapter XV on our lap, and those playing that can attest that timeboosts and portal profits if not a must, then at least are very, very desirable so you don't shoot yourself up. And we're talking about massive amounts, too - unlike any other chapter before that. In all likelihood, it was designed with players who indeed at that point in time accumulated hundreds, if not thousands of hours of timeboosts and %% of Portal Profits. Well, do you think it is possible to accumulate comparable amounts using the new event setup? It doesn't seem to be the case, we're looking at a couple of hours worth of timeboosts per reshuffle. This is dramatically less than you could get before, e.g. in the last event I averaged less than 11 event currency per 1 hour of time boosts from chests, and that didn't even include timeboosts in daily prizes. But the chapter requirements are unlikely to change now. I really pity players who would arrive to Elvenar chapter 6-12 months later, with much lower stockpiles of PPs/timeboosts/AWKPs if the current event mechanics is here to stay.