Why Orcs are needed after 10th provinces circle?

[DeletedUser651]

Isn't it great that we can have a forum and hear from people from different cultures in how they perceive things? Knowing that stuff ahead of time can really save a company a lot of money. You never know how something is going to be received.

Some people see the issue this way:

I think it's a big bunch of nonsense.

But... some customers see it this way:

that sounds a lot to me how the black slaves from the new world were treated for a long long time.

That is very interesting. We can see how cultural experiences and mores play a role in viewpoints.

 

[DeletedUser1548]

I totally agree @Bobbykitty.
Too bad it wasn't the purpose of this thread. You can't have everything, I believe...

 

[DeletedUser283]

Some people see the issue this way:

[here we have opinion fom someone who does not feel offended by orc trading)

But... some customers see it this way:

[here we have opinion fom someone who feels offended by orc trading]

That is very interesting. We can see how cultural experiences and mores play a role in viewpoints.

You don't say, dear !

do you realize that in your message I just quoted above, those who are offended by orc trading are "customers" (valuable beings worth listening to) while those who are not are just "people" (ordinary commoners ? worthless mob ?)
do I need to ellaborate ?

imho, we are in a game, and this is not slavery : slavery is using human beings as a tradable workforce
1. orcs are NOT humans, they are orcs
2. I am not human either, I am an Elf; why should I care ?

 

[DeletedUser1231]

@Goryn

I shall have wanted to know if the obligation of orcs for the negotiation went to be implanted next week on server national.
The idea is rather good, what disturbs me it is that we can be to block for months because of it the time to be able to free armory level 20.

The simplest shall be to put orcs for the negotiation from the level 12 or better than we are to oblige to have orcs to negotiate only once the ended era of the fairies.

What I do not see it is what is the interest for the game of such an obligation which is going to block the new players but which is not going to block the old players.

 

[DeletedUser629]

The plan is to also implement the Orcs needed for negotiating in ring 10 on all live servers.

 

[DeletedUser283]

bold move
let's wait for the rage to start ...

 

[DeletedUser1231]

The plan is to also implement the Orcs needed for negotiating in ring 10 on all live servers.

Thank you for your answer, even if it is not the one that I wanted

 

[CrazyWizard]

I dont really understand from a game design or buisness standpoint that you want to introduce something that makes some people who are potential paying customers quit the game and does not create anything joyfull enough for the others. thso who get caught by this problem are the very addicted and active players and most likely paying.

I really have no clue why it cant become mandatory upon completion of the Orc armoury as a setback for getting the orc race goodies.

Sometimes the stuff from this game is great, but unfortunatly quite often I can only shake my head. *shakes his head* *facepalm*

 

[DeletedUser1546]

So...you want to make money on this game, right? I understand that. It IS the bottom line. So.. my question is this: Why would you make it so the PAYING customers find it too difficult to advance if required to have orcs when you are still in the fairy lands??? Trying to slow down gameplay because we are advancing faster than you can provide new content? We were accepting the fairy fighters not being ready. We were waiting patiently. I have guild members preparing to leave. Paying customers so upset due to this one problem.... You tested this on Beta and people didn't like it there either. Yet here it is on live. (Oh wait.. Beta server isn't a "real" test server...I forgot). My money is still good here, right?

 

[DeletedUser1548]

The plan is to also implement the Orcs needed for negotiating in ring 10 on all live servers.

It happened and 'surprisingly' there are lots of people who got stuck in Dwarves chapter and have to wait several months to finish their provinces. Even fighters got stuck... But:

You can win every fight. Right?
You can train enough army to do so while losing most in tougher conlifcts. Right?
You will still have enough to have fun in Tournaments. Right?

Funny thing is few days before the update there was a bug in Barracks and trained army was missing. Perfect moment to implement Orcs to players who cannot produce their armies.

Monty Python...

At least on a server where I play mod told us that the changes are considered right now. So it will be changed. It needs to be but it should have been done when we said it's needed... Few weeks ago... Why no one listened? (see @CrazyWizard 's post from page 2!)

 

[DeletedUser651]

I knew people were going to be upset when you brought this live, but I haven't seen anything like this. We tried to warn you.

 

[DeletedUser1231]

If it is your vision of the game then I am goodbye going to tell the French world.

As I had said it I have to stop playing on my French world.
The blocking of more than 3 months for the negotiations of provinces was too long for me.
And wanting to play otherwise (without any fight from the beginning of the game) I preferred to stop.
I do not want to play actement in the same way on 2 worlds, I do not see the interest.

I am now going to concentrate on this world or as I am already for the era of orcs I am impacted not at all by this novelty.

 

[DeletedUser651]

Runes are hard to get if you're not willing to buy them.

I was rereading this thread and I have a question about this. HOW hard to get did you design them to be? What do the devs think is a reasonable length of time to build a wonder just by playing the game? I wonder if their concept and our experiences are matching up?

Also, somewhere I asked you Goryn, how you would win a lot of the provinces I am facing with fighting. Your response was to bring granite golems and sorc IIIs. I did those fights and I did win, though I did have heavy losses.

However, this orc limitation is hitting people who are in the dwarves chapter. They have do not have any granite golems or sorc IIIs. They are being told they must fight these fights but they don't have the tools to do so. Somewhere on facebook it was said that all fights are winnable. Even without the proper tools?

Lord Jirre, you brought up, as well as the person on the facebook page representing Elvenar, that it will only be a few tech you have to clear to get to the orcs. Since that post thinking it is only a few tech was written pretty recently on facebook by "elvenar" I can only assume that there is a misunderstanding of the issue. People are being blocked when are way back in the dwarven chapter....back when they have 55 more tech to complete to reach the orcs. 55 more techs in the tech tree!!

For the folks that are hitting this limitation in fairy, they have granite golems, but they don't have sorc IIIs. I can't imagine trying to win these battles without sorc IIIs.

Even if you don't believe me, just look at the facebook page. Read the forums. Listen to the stories. People have already quit the game. They are gone...forever. Others are saying they will quit. Fellowships are starting to crumble again. (This happened once before with a major change back with the dwarves were here). This is BAD. Very bad.

The only feedback is that Inno will look into and IF it proves to be a problem they will change it. EVERY comment is negative. How much more of a problem does there have to be? You asked, they told you, and you never responded. So, people quit. Our FRIENDS are leaving the game. That is lousy. Then more friends leave. Then some of them find new games and take more friends with them. I have personally lost 8 members of my fellowship over the past year to another game. That is an anecdote, sure, but I can't be the only person experiencing this.

The ramifications from this move will be felt for a while. We won't know the extent of the damage until the future, but this has harmed us all. If it is true that Inno will "look into" and "if" it appears to be too much of limitation then Inno will lift it, well, you better do it asap.

bold move
let's wait for the rage to start ...

Prophetic. It appears the dung has hit the fan.

 

[DeletedUser]

Thanks to Bobbykitty for pointing this tread out to me. I have been avoiding Forums for a few weeks now and see my mistake. A lot has transpired since I was last here. I am coming into this conversation very late. You can tell that by the sheer number of quotes I have included here. I fear my comments/input won't be read as this will be a long posting. But I will try to dip my hand in here anyway.

Starting with.... Correct me if I am wrong but a Beta server and forum IS meant to be a live testing of a game and any issues that should come about with new updates??? Therefore, developers WANT people to come to the beta server in mass numbers to see how things will work on an actual 'real time' basis. Developers WANT feedback from the players so they CAN in fact make any changes necessary to AVOID bugs/backlash before it is released on a wide scale in the public servers. Therefore, any feedback here should not be argued against, but revered and responded to in such a manner as to NOT put down the masses for giving said feedback.

You can't have it all in a short amount of time unless you buy a lot of diamonds.

I think several issues with your comment come to mind from just this one sentence.

1. The focus of developers is to SELL SELL SELL those diamonds.
   
2. Non-spenders are simply washed aside as having absolutely NO value whatsoever. Views, opinions, thoughts ... all simply do not matter if you are someone who does not pay money to play this game.
3. You suggest we "Want it ALL" which is the basis of any complaint out of any player and we are just being overgrown babes.

Ask any player who started Elvenar (from a non-fighting background): we all thought the fighting was optional / minimal.

As someone who did their research and read up on the Wiki BEFORE I actually broke down and started playing. I do admit this ONE line of text is what drew me in. I had just got done playing/quitting playing Game Of War as that one moved into a 'power player paid' game only. I wanted a nice relaxing game where I did not have to battle and could just build a city without seeing all my hard work be trampled on by other players in a pvp setting.

The problem I see here with all of the changes is that; NO we do not have PvP here however the developers are forcing US to demolish our cities on our own with each new chapter. We spend countless hours, days and months building up a city with the known information we have at given time, only to have to sell, sell, sell... rendering all our hard work as useless. Major fail in my opinion on this game.

So the assertion, "provinces can be cleared by fighting" isn't really true for most players. We don't have the units that were intended to allow us to overcome the enormous disadvantages in units / strengths.

You don't need Orcs to scout provinces, and you can clear all encounters by fighting for them. So they're not locked entirely, they're locked for negotiations until you have Orcs.

Surely i'm not the only fighter in the building, so whenever people face problems defeating a certain encounter, ask for help.

I left the last 3 quotes together as I feel they are all discussing the same issue. I tend to lean towards siding with bobbiepiazza on this issue. It is quite presumptuous of you Goryn to make a statement of such a nature casting aside each person who says they have an issue with fighting/winning battles in this game.

As a moderator, I would think it your duty to validate the feelings of the players and insure them that you understand and sympathize with their issues on any given subject matter. Rather than trying to argue a point just to be "Correct." In one sentence you not only put down a vast majority of your players and discredit their opinions, you boost your own abilities within the game, then turn around and say, "hey I am here ask me for help." WHY? Why on earth would anyone ask for help after reading this sentence?

All one has to do is look at the quote below for an example of "Majority Rule" on player sentiment within this game. The majority cannot be wrong 100% of the time as you suggest.

this evening, I tried to fight an encounter in an elixir province @ ring 11
there were 2 necros, 1 golem II and the rest was a mix of treants and treants II, for a total of 8 ennemy squads;
I fought valiantly, but I lost...

This IS the majority of players' sentiment. 100's of players running into the same problem. So I guess we have a situation where the 1% are the only ones that matter because THOSE are the ones that agree with the developers and staff and all the changes.

IMHO, orcs should not be brought into the negociation process according to the progress of the player on the map, but rather according to his/her progress in the tech tree :
it is absurd to require players to pay orcs to negociate when they are not able to provide them, having not yet researched the armoury upgrade

I agree with you Philplessis.

Maybe one of the best fighters in the game, namely you Goryn, have found a way to win all these fights with the troops you make in a few days, but I sure can't. I can't even keep trying because I lose the all the troops in one fight. Moreover, why should fighting be the only way I am now able to clear that province?

Another fine example of "Majority Rule"... but somehow it is discredited as being an overgrown babe and because we do not happen to agree, it should be argued against instead of validated. ..... ..... ..... .... shaking my head yet again.

Regarding the comment on having a particular ancient wonder. That is laughable. Unless you mean buying one. Because I can't get the required number of runes to build those wonders if I can't clear the provinces!

Telling me that my city is poorly designed because it can't handle the new population requirements is interesting. So, the only way I can keep playing this game is to destroy most of the city I have now in order to build nothing but houses so I can support all the armories needed to play now? Then, you will blame me for not having any factories.

Just once, I wish someone around here who worked for Inno tried to play this game in real time. It is exhausting trying to explain all the time how these roadblocks affect us.

Runes are hard to get if you're not willing to buy them. That's everyone's personal choice to make.

As i have said before, players who are having problems with fighting can ask for help on the forum.

Leaving ALL of these quotes together as well as THEY go together. Once again we have a situation where the BOTTOM LINE is ... a staff of innogames is telling us it is "Our personal choice not to progress in this game if we choose not to buy diamonds." Speaking as a person who HAS bought diamonds and spent my hard earned money on this game.... I am still NOT happy. I am still running into roadblocks and I am still dumbfounded at the amount of times you 'staff' would rather take the stance of arguing with a person over their input rather than actually listening with an 'open mind' All of these complaints did not start out as complaints. I watched this tread go from some well thought out informative and knowledgeable feedback... to a 'he said she said' type of bickering back and forth all because YOU refuse (as a staff member) to actually listen without taking said input as an insult (which was never meant to sound in such a way). I responded to your whole "askin forum for help" thing above but will repeat it again: WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD ASK YOU FOR HELP?? Especially when you give the types of responses you do. You dumb people down... most of which have college degrees and are well established business folk who seem to play your game here. Change YOUR tone and maybe there would be more understanding for the mistakes made in the development of this game.

I see so many well thought out and well presented comments getting jumped on or squashed by moderators. It is unacceptable.

How many customers do you need to loose before the developers are forced to put down there pride and use reason instead.

Apparently they want to 'fast-track' losing ALL of them at once with a massive sit-out. May be the next logical step here since we get no where sharing our feedback here?

It is 6-7 times more expensive to acquire a new customer than it is to keep a current one.

Source: White House Office of Consumer Affairs

And once you lose a customer, you lose them for good.

91% of unhappy customers will not willingly do business with you again.Source: Lee Resources

Top two reasons for customer loss:

1. Customers feel poorly treated

2. Failure to solve a problem in a timely manner

Source: Customer Experience Impact Report by Harris Interactive/RightNow,

I love love love this!!!!! Nice one Bobbykitty.


I had about 20 more quotes I wanted to address.....but my my coming into a conversation so late in the game is not something 'fun' I shall shut up now since none of this will be respected by staff anyway.

 

[DeletedUser1548]

Wow, @Irishna you did excellent work here and just 'took the words right out of my mouth'.
I've been thinking for some time about how we are being treated here and came to a conclusion that struggling is just a waste of time. I will just play and let the forums rot.

No one listens. Part of the Staff is arrogant, impolite and behaves as if they wanted us just to shut up (and pay).
They do not provide answers for the questions asked. This one makes me really disappointed. I asked few times about something and was ignored. Just like that and it wasn't an oversight.

It's hard to believe our voice is heard by the devs when mods tell us all the time we're too stupid to play this game.
Or more likely they are being told to 'convince' players everything is great. I see this attitude in Inno TV so it might be the policy...

Again: waste of time.

 

[DeletedUser629]

Thanks to Bobbykitty for pointing this tread out to me. I have been avoiding Forums for a few weeks now and see my mistake. A lot has transpired since I was last here. I am coming into this conversation very late. You can tell that by the sheer number of quotes I have included here. I fear my comments/input won't be read as this will be a long posting. But I will try to dip my hand in here anyway.

Starting with.... Correct me if I am wrong but a Beta server and forum IS meant to be a live testing of a game and any issues that should come about with new updates??? Therefore, developers WANT people to come to the beta server in mass numbers to see how things will work on an actual 'real time' basis. Developers WANT feedback from the players so they CAN in fact make any changes necessary to AVOID bugs/backlash before it is released on a wide scale in the public servers. Therefore, any feedback here should not be argued against, but revered and responded to in such a manner as to NOT put down the masses for giving said feedback.



I think several issues with your comment come to mind from just this one sentence.

1. The focus of developers is to SELL SELL SELL those diamonds.
   
2. Non-spenders are simply washed aside as having absolutely NO value whatsoever. Views, opinions, thoughts ... all simply do not matter if you are someone who does not pay money to play this game.
3. You suggest we "Want it ALL" which is the basis of any complaint out of any player and we are just being overgrown babes.

As someone who did their research and read up on the Wiki BEFORE I actually broke down and started playing. I do admit this ONE line of text is what drew me in. I had just got done playing/quitting playing Game Of War as that one moved into a 'power player paid' game only. I wanted a nice relaxing game where I did not have to battle and could just build a city without seeing all my hard work be trampled on by other players in a pvp setting.

The problem I see here with all of the changes is that; NO we do not have PvP here however the developers are forcing US to demolish our cities on our own with each new chapter. We spend countless hours, days and months building up a city with the known information we have at given time, only to have to sell, sell, sell... rendering all our hard work as useless. Major fail in my opinion on this game.







I left the last 3 quotes together as I feel they are all discussing the same issue. I tend to lean towards siding with bobbiepiazza on this issue. It is quite presumptuous of you Goryn to make a statement of such a nature casting aside each person who says they have an issue with fighting/winning battles in this game.

As a moderator, I would think it your duty to validate the feelings of the players and insure them that you understand and sympathize with their issues on any given subject matter. Rather than trying to argue a point just to be "Correct." In one sentence you not only put down a vast majority of your players and discredit their opinions, you boost your own abilities within the game, then turn around and say, "hey I am here ask me for help." WHY? Why on earth would anyone ask for help after reading this sentence?

All one has to do is look at the quote below for an example of "Majority Rule" on player sentiment within this game. The majority cannot be wrong 100% of the time as you suggest.



This IS the majority of players' sentiment. 100's of players running into the same problem. So I guess we have a situation where the 1% are the only ones that matter because THOSE are the ones that agree with the developers and staff and all the changes.



I agree with you Philplessis.



Another fine example of "Majority Rule"... but somehow it is discredited as being an overgrown babe and because we do not happen to agree, it should be argued against instead of validated. ..... ..... ..... .... shaking my head yet again.









Leaving ALL of these quotes together as well as THEY go together. Once again we have a situation where the BOTTOM LINE is ... a staff of innogames is telling us it is "Our personal choice not to progress in this game if we choose not to buy diamonds." Speaking as a person who HAS bought diamonds and spent my hard earned money on this game.... I am still NOT happy. I am still running into roadblocks and I am still dumbfounded at the amount of times you 'staff' would rather take the stance of arguing with a person over their input rather than actually listening with an 'open mind' All of these complaints did not start out as complaints. I watched this tread go from some well thought out informative and knowledgeable feedback... to a 'he said she said' type of bickering back and forth all because YOU refuse (as a staff member) to actually listen without taking said input as an insult (which was never meant to sound in such a way). I responded to your whole "askin forum for help" thing above but will repeat it again: WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WOULD ASK YOU FOR HELP?? Especially when you give the types of responses you do. You dumb people down... most of which have college degrees and are well established business folk who seem to play your game here. Change YOUR tone and maybe there would be more understanding for the mistakes made in the development of this game.

I see so many well thought out and well presented comments getting jumped on or squashed by moderators. It is unacceptable.




Apparently they want to 'fast-track' losing ALL of them at once with a massive sit-out. May be the next logical step here since we get no where sharing our feedback here?



I love love love this!!!!! Nice one Bobbykitty.


I had about 20 more quotes I wanted to address.....but my my coming into a conversation so late in the game is not something 'fun' I shall shut up now since none of this will be respected by staff anyway.

TL: DR

 

[DeletedUser283]

TL: DR

wot ?

 

[Brummbaer]

TL;DR/TLDR, „Too Long; Didn't Read“,

 

[DeletedUser651]

TL: DR

I think you should because your comment just made her point. If you folks don't want to hear from us, then let's just drop the pretense and stop asking for feedback.

 

[DeletedUser]

Wow, @Irishna you did excellent work here and just 'took the words right out of my mouth'.

Thank you for the compliment ag123.

It's hard to believe our voice is heard by the devs when mods tell us all the time we're too stupid to play this game.

I totally agree. I guess all the well versed, college educated and well respected (in real life) people ... mean squat here. Time to close shop and call THIS game and company a wash. I wish them well; without me of course. Too bad 1 person leaving will make no difference.

TL: DR

I guess not only do you dumb people down, you lie as well. You read every single word (it's your job)...Unless you are openly admitting to NOT doing your job??? In which case you should be fired. Truth is you just don't wish to respond because you don't agree with it and it directly puts you down.

think you should because your comment just made her point.

Yes, it does prove my point entirely.