Why Orcs are needed after 10th provinces circle?

[DeletedUser1095]

Sorry to ask something that's probably already been covered (the thread is now too long to read) but wouldn't it alter the whole dynamic of the chapter in a positive way if we could trade for orcs the way we can trade for other goods we need in negotiations?

In fact being able to trade for all the orc stuff (debris, poo, etc) would make the whole chapter a lot more interesting - but that's another story.

 

[DeletedUser651]

It would alter the dynamic in exactly the opposite way of what Inno is trying to do. They are purposely stopping people from getting expansions just as they reach new races that need more room. Your choice, not be able to upgrade much or pay them for expansions. Obviously, they want you to pay but will tolerate you if you stick around without paying.

 

[DeletedUser1095]

Well, that might be backfiring on them at least in some cases. I still have some diamonds but I refuse to use any of them (let alone buy any more) on this ugly, crude and ill-conceived chapter.

 

[DeletedUser1075]

Assuming Inno is like other freemium companies, they don't dislike or actively block non-paying players, because they see those players as potential conversions at some date in the future when Inno comes up with something they may like. Whether it is on this game or another one... all of us non-payers are opportunities. Ideally they have a marketer and an analytics person looking at the data to figure this out. Realistically... ha. A lot of freemium companies don't collect the right data.

I am curious if this chapter has moved the needle on purchases in either direction. Not that I expect Inno to share that information!

 

[DeletedUser867]

I am curious if this chapter has moved the needle on purchases in either direction. Not that I expect Inno to share that information!

I don't know about purchases, but the combination of a new chapter and the Summer Solstice contest certainly livened up US1: Arendyll.

Spoiler: Been There

Apparently you have to be logged into the US forum to see the graphic that I initially linked, so I switched the same graphic to a public link.

 

[DeletedUser1075]

Your spoiler didn't show Katwijk.

 

[DeletedUser283]

that is because it is top secret

 

[DeletedUser867]

our spoiler didn't show Katwijk.

I've now switched the graphic to a public link. Here's the data that drives the 16-Aug line on the graph, just in case you're an Excel guru.

Scores	Percent	Cities	Rank	Moved	Hall	Owner's_Name

[tr1][td2] 01 [/td2][td2] 0.042% [/td2][td2] 15 [/td2][td2] 35689 [/td2][td2] 530 [/td2][td2] 1 [/td2][td1] Natalie85 [/td1][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 10 [/td2][td2] 6.103% [/td2][td2] 2178 [/td2][td2] 35674 [/td2][td2] 529 [/td2][td2] 1 [/td2][td1] pakengteken [/td1][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 20 [/td2][td2] 6.332% [/td2][td2] 2260 [/td2][td2] 33496 [/td2][td2] 455 [/td2][td2] 1 [/td2][td1] lisa75770 [/td1][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 30 [/td2][td2] 1.292% [/td2][td2] 461 [/td2][td2] 31236 [/td2][td2] 448 [/td2][td2] 1 [/td2][td1] TheGreyKnight [/td1][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 40 [/td2][td2] 1.535% [/td2][td2] 548 [/td2][td2] 30775 [/td2][td2] 426 [/td2][td2] 1 [/td2][td1] Master-Dark [/td1][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 50 [/td2][td2] 0.841% [/td2][td2] 300 [/td2][td2] 30227 [/td2][td2] 407 [/td2][td2] 2 [/td2][td1] KathySh [/td1][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 60 [/td2][td2] 1.104% [/td2][td2] 394 [/td2][td2] 29927 [/td2][td2] 408 [/td2][td2] 2 [/td2][td1] pragalathan [/td1][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 70 [/td2][td2] 1.017% [/td2][td2] 363 [/td2][td2] 29533 [/td2][td2] 398 [/td2][td2] 2 [/td2][td1] Taalor [/td1][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 80 [/td2][td2] 0.855% [/td2][td2] 305 [/td2][td2] 29170 [/td2][td2] 376 [/td2][td2] 2 [/td2][td1] sherpor [/td1][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 90 [/td2][td2] 0.849% [/td2][td2] 303 [/td2][td2] 28865 [/td2][td2] 372 [/td2][td2] 2 [/td2][td1] Cpellegrini [/td1][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 100 [/td2][td2] 7.106% [/td2][td2] 2536 [/td2][td2] 28562 [/td2][td2] 370 [/td2][td2] 2 [/td2][td1] nonernose [/td1][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 200 [/td2][td2] 2.603% [/td2][td2] 929 [/td2][td2] 26026 [/td2][td2] 413 [/td2][td2] 2 [/td2][td1] bsullivan54 [/td1][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 300 [/td2][td2] 1.917% [/td2][td2] 684 [/td2][td2] 25097 [/td2][td2] 419 [/td2][td2] 2 [/td2][td1] Betor [/td1][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 400 [/td2][td2] 1.426% [/td2][td2] 509 [/td2][td2] 24413 [/td2][td2] 395 [/td2][td2] 3 [/td2][td1] Grizzz3 [/td1][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 500 [/td2][td2] 1.247% [/td2][td2] 445 [/td2][td2] 23904 [/td2][td2] 402 [/td2][td2] 4 [/td2][td1] tigger2004us [/td1][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 600 [/td2][td2] 1.104% [/td2][td2] 394 [/td2][td2] 23459 [/td2][td2] 407 [/td2][td2] 5 [/td2][td1] Amble [/td1][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 700 [/td2][td2] 1.138% [/td2][td2] 406 [/td2][td2] 23065 [/td2][td2] 417 [/td2][td2] 3 [/td2][td1] Cyrrhinia [/td1][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 800 [/td2][td2] 1.166% [/td2][td2] 416 [/td2][td2] 22659 [/td2][td2] 412 [/td2][td2] 3 [/td2][td1] Dming [/td1][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 900 [/td2][td2] 1.090% [/td2][td2] 389 [/td2][td2] 22243 [/td2][td2] 396 [/td2][td2] 4 [/td2][td1] Archangel [/td1][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 1,000 [/td2][td2] 8.610% [/td2][td2] 3073 [/td2][td2] 21854 [/td2][td2] 366 [/td2][td2] 3 [/td2][td1] jon doe [/td1][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 2,000 [/td2][td2] 5.752% [/td2][td2] 2053 [/td2][td2] 18781 [/td2][td2] 382 [/td2][td2] 5 [/td2][td1] itolismap [/td1][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 3,000 [/td2][td2] 5.142% [/td2][td2] 1835 [/td2][td2] 16728 [/td2][td2] 348 [/td2][td2] 7 [/td2][td1] Mystanim [/td1][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 4,000 [/td2][td2] 5.341% [/td2][td2] 1906 [/td2][td2] 14893 [/td2][td2] 276 [/td2][td2] 7 [/td2][td1] terrybear [/td1][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 5,000 [/td2][td2] 4.677% [/td2][td2] 1669 [/td2][td2] 12987 [/td2][td2] 287 [/td2][td2] 7 [/td2][td1] Daenae [/td1][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 6,000 [/td2][td2] 3.393% [/td2][td2] 1211 [/td2][td2] 11318 [/td2][td2] 255 [/td2][td2] 8 [/td2][td1] Danator [/td1][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 7,000 [/td2][td2] 2.785% [/td2][td2] 994 [/td2][td2] 10107 [/td2][td2] 215 [/td2][td2] 7 [/td2][td1] Renegade2u [/td1][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 8,000 [/td2][td2] 2.200% [/td2][td2] 785 [/td2][td2] 9113 [/td2][td2] 211 [/td2][td2] 10 [/td2][td1] smoke2 [/td1][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 9,000 [/td2][td2] 1.841% [/td2][td2] 657 [/td2][td2] 8328 [/td2][td2] 180 [/td2][td2] 10 [/td2][td1] fraggledprofessor [/td1][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 10,000 [/td2][td2] 8.263% [/td2][td2] 2949 [/td2][td2] 7671 [/td2][td2] 158 [/td2][td2] 9 [/td2][td1] Paleman [/td1][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 20,000 [/td2][td2] 4.102% [/td2][td2] 1464 [/td2][td2] 4722 [/td2][td2] 133 [/td2][td2] 15 [/td2][td1] RJ Daggerhaus [/td1][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 30,000 [/td2][td2] 2.527% [/td2][td2] 902 [/td2][td2] 3258 [/td2][td2] 99 [/td2][td2] 15 [/td2][td1] Diana Bishop [/td1][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 40,000 [/td2][td2] 1.964% [/td2][td2] 701 [/td2][td2] 2356 [/td2][td2] 78 [/td2][td2] 15 [/td2][td1] bcon0131 [/td1][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 50,000 [/td2][td2] 1.281% [/td2][td2] 457 [/td2][td2] 1655 [/td2][td2] 68 [/td2][td2] 17 [/td2][td1] user1112e [/td1][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 60,000 [/td2][td2] 0.883% [/td2][td2] 315 [/td2][td2] 1198 [/td2][td2] 59 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td1] Knucklehead13 [/td1][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 70,000 [/td2][td2] 0.664% [/td2][td2] 237 [/td2][td2] 883 [/td2][td2] 58 [/td2][td2] 19 [/td2][td1] Moske [/td1][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 80,000 [/td2][td2] 0.493% [/td2][td2] 176 [/td2][td2] 646 [/td2][td2] 31 [/td2][td2] 17 [/td2][td1] Speca1 [/td1][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 90,000 [/td2][td2] 0.420% [/td2][td2] 150 [/td2][td2] 470 [/td2][td2] 48 [/td2][td2] 19 [/td2][td1] Shadowbakasama [/td1][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 100,000 [/td2][td2] 0.894% [/td2][td2] 319 [/td2][td2] 320 [/td2][td2] 43 [/td2][td2] 19 [/td2][td1] Draeyn [/td1][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 212,755 [/td2][td2] Highest [/td2][td2] Score [/td2][td2] 1 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 21 [/td2][td1] tanjab [/td1][/tr1]

 

[DeletedUser1345]

The whole orc thing does not matter to me personally, as it was introduced when I was able to do the research and start producing orcs. This game is unique, because it is the only game I like, but would not ever recommend to anyone. Longer scouting times to me, and many others, means that you want to do your best to make sure there is always scouting going on.
There does seem to be a contradiction. Players need to race through the research tree before reaching the orc required provinces, so they should not waste any KP on wonders that start appearing in the second chapter. Both features were introduced very close to each other, and they clash.

 

[DeletedUser651]

https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/inde...really-needs-attention.5814/page-2#post-37914

To continue from that discussion:

The following is a comment from Goyrn that I would like to reply to:

You started this thread with copy/paste messages from another forum, something we can't allow because it doesn't make any sense. So you brought it here, and i had to respond to it. The beta team does not have more influence on the developer team than any other Elvenar team, we are equally important. Further messages form other forums will be deleted.

I never said it would be changed, i said chances are it will be changed, and yes, negotiating should not be impossible, the game should have both options open at all times. In most cases this is still a fact, it's the advanced players who have 222+ provinces scouted who are hitting a wall.

So whenever we change something, we have to look at the bigger picture because it will affect every player, thus affect the entire balance of the game.

Last but not least, we already have a thread dedicated to this specific issue, and this thread was created with the sole purpose of showing us how frustrated players on another forum are. I will therefore close this thread for further comments so we can all use 1 thread to discuss this.

Please use this thread to further discuss the Orc requirement in provinces

https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/inde...-are-needed-after-10th-provinces-circle.5368/

It is impossible to respond rationally to a comment that is completely contradictory.

How do we pay attention to this:
Further messages form other forums will be deleted.

and this:
Last but not least, we already have a thread dedicated to this specific issue, and this thread was created with the sole purpose of showing us how frustrated players on another forum are. I will therefore close this thread for further comments so we can all use 1 thread to discuss this.

We cannot do both simultaneously. Show you how frustrated players are, don't show you? Only show you how frustrated players are on a teeny tiny server? Don't show you how the live players are frustrated? How about we only tell you about Fred from Indiana...and how he feels about this game? That should narrow down the data field sufficiently, right? I mean...data...who wants data? Too much data hurts the brain, right?


But the main object of discussion...the fact that the orc requirement has stopped all negotiating has been addressed as thus
negotiating should not be impossible, the game should have both options open at all times.

However...
In most cases this is still a fact, it's the advanced players who have 222+ provinces scouted who are hitting a wall.

In other words, to the good, avid, continuous Elvenar players out there, WE DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU because "we have to look at the bigger picture because it will affect every player, thus affect the entire balance of the game."


So to anyone who is frustrated with the Orc requirement: tough luck. I mean, how many of you can this be affecting after all? You are a tiny minority of players and we cannot do anything to make this game pleasurable for you. You have done too well in our game.

We will now smack your hands with a severe limitation in the game...... WHACK!!! and have you back away from the keyboard. Go on...get out of here!! We don't want YOU! You are not our kind of players. If you simply must stick around, then you can do so without any space!! No more big city for you!! Enjoy watching the others players leap ahead of you. You were too far in front anyway. BAD PLAYER! it's the advanced players who have 222+ provinces scouted who are hitting a wall. You have scouted too many provinces and done too well! Clearly, you have done way too much!!!! If you do any better you will affect the ENTIRE BALANCE OF OUR GAME!!! OMG! Our game will be out of balance and you will AFFECT EVERY SINGLE PLAYER!!!!

(Unless you give us your credit card in which case, step right this way, please ignore everything we said, we have some lovely expansions to sell you).


tl:dr? To anyone hitting this limitation: Go jump in a lake!

 

[DeletedUser629]

We cannot do both simultaneously. Show you how frustrated players are, don't show you? Only show you how frustrated players are on a teeny tiny server? Don't show you how the live players are frustrated? How about we only tell you about Fred from Indiana...and how he feels about this game? That should narrow down the data field sufficiently, right? I mean...data...who wants data? Too much data hurts the brain, right?

This will be the last time i'm going to say this. Posts from other forums should stay on other forums. We do want data, but all data is collected by the Elvenar teams of those forums. This is why we have those forums

 

[DeletedUser283]

orcs should not be brought into the negociation process according to a fixed ring on the map, because it is arbitrary and not smart;

orcs should be brought into the negociation process when and only when players can pay in orcs, that is when players can produce orcs, that is not before players have unlocked the "breeding grounds" armory research.

I will not move from there.

 

[Muf-Muf]

We have deleted all posts that were offtopic since Goryn's last post in this thread. While we appreciate the discussion about what beta is and is not, this thread is not the place to have it. This thread is about Orcs being necessary to negotiate on the world map.

We will not ask to stay ontopic again. We have done so enough times already. Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[DeletedUser]

We will, of course, monitor this situation. If ring 10 proves to be too soon to have Orcs, and many players who haven't reached chapter VIII won't be able to negotiate anymore, chances are, it will be changed. Negotiating can be made harder, but should not become impossible.

How did you decide and choose Ring 10?

Was it maybe on Friday June 10th?
"Balancer 2: Checked the watch few minutes before the question..."
"Balancer 1: OK, I have one more thing what about province limitation we were talking on last time?"
"Balancer 2: What about Ring 10?"
"Balancer 1: Sounds ok."
"Balancer 1 & 2: Great, see you on Monday.

Nice one! "Keep it open." But actually do not do anything about it. Try that with infected wound.
Same with AW stats. Clearly ToS has unreasonable stats. It should be close to Golden Abyss requirements for upgrades.
4x4 Size is too big. As most of buildings which makes game lagging on big cities. Not an issue.

Meanwhile in Elvenar...
Not 222 provinces available as Katwijk said. As ring 10 is already infected with Orcs requirement.
222 sounded too much then today I looked...

surprise, surprise...
only 179 provinces can be negotiated, fighting is not optional anymore! Before Orc's requirement. Which is just 11,875% more than minimum for unlocking Chapter 8. Now this can be reached way before researching breeding grounds.
Most likely it will happen somewhere in Dwarven chapter. Probably before researching Dwarven Wonders. Which will make collecting their runes close to impossible. - Maybe you should start selling packs for those runes and not just for ToS (49x) & GA(34x).

Do you want us newbies to sit through out 1,5 chapter?

Is obvious Ring 10 is too soon from day one! Players won't be able to get any Dwarven & Fairy Ancient Wonders runes before getting provinces bottleneck.
Now tournaments with even higher negotiation costs and unreasonable 16 hours wait between levels... Good luck to us all getting to higher chapters and getting runes! But luck has nothing to do with this game. Is random as runes pattern. You don't understand you can't make it "random like," number for AWs is not big enough. Even then the algorithm has it own pattern.

Also you added AW that produce Orc's when is too late.

Tournament levels: You made reasonable event that everybody could complete quests... but on tournaments we are not able to play all 6 levels... Unless you are zombie.


Serious questions:
How did you come up on setting the ring 10 for this limit?
What exactly do you expect from players just to buy diamonds and sit on them?
Because "keep on playing" is not possible.


#OneWayConversation?

 

[Dony]

ring 10 is not affected with orcs for sure, i have plenty of those on beta and none require orcs, i am in the middle of dwarven chapter and only 141 provinces finished, i dont see myself reaching orcs in provinces before goblin chapter with my playstyle.
i dont see any problem with runes , there are plenty of ways to get them, in last summer solstice event I got 54 runes which made me build 4 wonders

16 hours is reasonable wait between levels in tournament, in tournament im fighting 8 hours daily and its impossible to clear all province for me (30+ on live) so reducing it lower wont change anything
level 6 is also possible, you just need to stand up 1 day a bit earlier and you are guaranted to get lvl6 on that provincies (if you play elvenar every day)

AW producing orcs is not late, because we just started with orcs, they will be used from now on in every chapter, so in fact its early in that regard

people just need to learn how to use space, even if inno gave us 2x bigger city with smaller building, eventually we will run out of space, and keep whining about small space anyway, there needs to be borders and you need to learn how to play between them

 

[DeletedUser651]

i dont see any problem with runes , there are plenty of ways to get them

Congrats for you. I still can't build any of the stupid wonders I want. I can't get runes to save my life.

16 hours is reasonable wait between levels in tournament

If you are happy being ill all the time. On one tourney day I have to wake up at 8am and stay up until 5am to get them all done. That isn't remotely reasonable. I get sick every time I throw my sleep schedule off like that. We are all on different time zones, so what works perfectly for one person is a bloody nightmare to another. With the new AI being next to worthless with the new fighting setup, if you don't spend all day manually fighting, you won't get anywhere. It takes hours and hours and hours to do the fights manually.

AW producing orcs is not late, because we just started with orcs, they will be used from now on in every chapter, so in fact its early in that regard

For everyone who gets to the orc limitation and has to sit and twiddle their thumbs it is late. Know how I know this? People quit left and right when this limitation hit. They are still quitting when they hit that limitation. I like a game with real people playing it, so this affects me too even though I am way past having difficulty producing orcs.

people just need to learn how to use space, even if inno gave us 2x bigger city with smaller building, eventually we will run out of space, and keep whining about small space anyway, there needs to be borders and you need to learn how to play between them

Buildings get much bigger, scouting takes much longer to get expansions. You start losing the ability to keep up. You can't build more factories to make the goods needed to clear the provinces (because of course fighting is impossible for all but the most experienced people). You can't build the factories because they need more population, but you can't get more pop because the houses just got a lot bigger and don't produce much more pop.

This is extreme, but it illustrates my point....If you have a 25 x 25 grid city and suddenly a main hall was 25 x 25, then it doesn't matter if you are Einstein, you won't have enough space to build things.

We are all the way in orcs and thanks to the insane 3 day 12 hour scouting times, I still only have the room that was given for dwarves. Maybe in a few years I will get the fairy expansions. My grandchildren might have the orc expansions if they keep the scouts going 24/7....and by then we will be 20 races ahead and a house will be larger than a pond.

But don't worry....I think I have another expansion coming by Christmas, so I will get to choose whether to build half a wonder on that space.

 

[DeletedUser1548]

16 hours is reasonable wait between levels in tournament, in tournament im fighting 8 hours daily and its impossible to clear all province for me (30+ on live) so reducing it lower wont change anything
level 6 is also possible, you just need to stand up 1 day a bit earlier and you are guaranted to get lvl6 on that provincies (if you play elvenar every day)

Do I understood correctly you fight manually in Tournaments every day and it takes 8h/day?
And you get up earlier to be able to do 6 stars?

people just need to learn how to use space, even if inno gave us 2x bigger city with smaller building, eventually we will run out of space, and keep whining about small space anyway, there needs to be borders and you need to learn how to play between them

I agree but this knowledge comes with experience in the game and mental change. Problem is people don't want to delete anything and they are struggling to the end of the time with lack of space.
On Beta I have plenty of space because I decided from the beginning I don't need so many manufacturies I have in my main city but there... I need to delete every piece of culture to have space for guest race buildings. I can manage and it gives me satisfaction (I did not buy premium expansions) but I see lots of people who have maximum available space and whining they don't have place for new buildings while having 5 max upgraded Armories and dozen of Ponds.

 

[DeletedUser283]

Last week I have reached 6 stars on proveinces 1 & 2
put the blame on insomnia

 

[DeletedUser651]

ag123, I will respond to your question privately. Tournaments aren't the topic of this thread so I can't respond here.

 

[DeletedUser]

My bad. 10th provinces doesn't have orc's yet. Anyways I still think is too soon.