Why Orcs are needed after 10th provinces circle?

[DeletedUser867]

While it's mostly a future consideration, if someone on the fringe of your map has been doing tournaments, you would want to grow in that direction so that you would have access to tournaments that had a greater number of participants.

Also, I believe your distances are one ring too low. By my count the Relic Sectors per ring accumulate as follows:

Ring Distance	Ring Sectors	City Sectors	Total Cities	Relic Provinces	Total Provinces

[tr1][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 1 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 2 [/td2][td2] 12 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 12 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 3 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 12 [/td2][td2] 12 [/td2][td2] 24 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 4 [/td2][td2] 24 [/td2][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td2] 42 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 5 [/td2][td2] 30 [/td2][td2] 12 [/td2][td2] 30 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td2] 60 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 6 [/td2][td2] 36 [/td2][td2] 12 [/td2][td2] 42 [/td2][td2] 24 [/td2][td2] 84 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 7 [/td2][td2] 42 [/td2][td2] 12 [/td2][td2] 54 [/td2][td2] 30 [/td2][td2] 114 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 8 [/td2][td2] 48 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td2] 72 [/td2][td2] 30 [/td2][td2] 144 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 9 [/td2][td2] 54 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td2] 90 [/td2][td2] 36 [/td2][td2] 180 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 10 [/td2][td2] 60 [/td2][td2] 18 [/td2][td2] 108 [/td2][td2] 42 [/td2][td2] 222 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 11 [/td2][td2] 66 [/td2][td2] 24 [/td2][td2] 132 [/td2][td2] 42 [/td2][td2] 264 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 12 [/td2][td2] 72 [/td2][td2] 24 [/td2][td2] 156 [/td2][td2] 48 [/td2][td2] 312 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 13 [/td2][td2] 78 [/td2][td2] 24 [/td2][td2] 180 [/td2][td2] 54 [/td2][td2] 366 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 14 [/td2][td2] 84 [/td2][td2] 30 [/td2][td2] 210 [/td2][td2] 54 [/td2][td2] 420 [/td2][/tr1]

As a sanity check, each edge of the six equilateral triangles in the hexagon will be identical at each distance, so if the radius is 10 then the chord must also be 10. A radius 10 hexagon has 6 such chords, for 60 total sectors. On average, 2/3 rds of those sectors will be Relic sectors, but the progression is jumpy, as you can see in the above table.

 

[DeletedUser1548]

Let's connect the dots and stop wasting time in this. It will not be changed unless people start voting with their wallets... We got almost at the same time: Orcs blockade and premium expansions disconnected from the Main Hall. It's cleary about money.
Until you get to the Dwarves or so you have enough time to taste the game and get addicted:
If you do -> Buy premium expansions.
If you do not -> You are only a cost and a 'crowd maker' on a server. Maybe you will buy diamonds in a special offer, though so you will not be blocked permanently...

 

[DeletedUser]

Exactly, #ag123.

Muf-Muf's long explanation is invalidated by the fact that any play who wants to can soon purchase up to 33 expansions - without the need to wait for Orcs. So there's no real game balancing involved - it's just rhetoric to cover up the real effect.

The company line is "add more variety". Make the game more interesting.

How does having a useless Level 1 Wonder sitting in a tiny city make the game more interesting? The most recent FB release is encouraging new players to build that virtually useless Tome of Secrets to get a whole KP per day! It's just a shell game, imo. Build useless Wonders early in the game, use up the grid space...then, since players can't progress far enough into research to earn the free expansions, they'll be frustrated into purchasing the expansions needed. Then buy Runes and add more useless early Wonders, waste early KP on Runes and Wonders, then continue to move slower through Research and city growth...

The original game, through Dwarven, was very well-balanced. If Inno needed more active users - a larger revenue base - they could have listened to many player suggestions and made early play more appealing!

Personal conclusion: If a player has completed all 222 Province Encounters without buying premium expansions...that's the point when the backside statistics prove to Inno that - guess what! this player isn't likely to be an income source. So, they put on the brakes to add pressure, with the expectation that the low-spender will concede (quit or spend).​

 

[Lissona]

In order to even produce orcs I need a lot of room. I need to upgrade 3 armories to make orcs...that is a total of 1950 population. Even with the new population the houses get I only get 7 pop per square. 1950/7 equals 278 spaces of houses that are needed just to be able to create the orcs or 23 houses of maxing them out.

How many ORP do you plan that you had to upgrade 3 armories?
2 armories lvl 22 produce 2 x 320 x 2 = 1.280 orcs per day.
If you need 1.350 orcs for a province with scouting times of about three days that is 450 orcs per day.
So a rest of 830 orcs.
One ORP with 5x spare time + 1x obstacle = 240 orcs max for one day (if you don't play 24 hours a day...). And you have to produce dung/raid, too - which results in much smaller orc needs.
So you can operate 3 ORPs with the 830 orcs.

But, I also need 22,000 supplies per day to make the orcs in each one of those armories for a total of 66,000 supplies needed per day. That means a LOT of workshops to produce all those supplies. I can make 9500 supplies in one day in one workshop more if I am on more often.

No, that means 2 buffs from the MA and you're done (in regard that you do not need 3 armories).

 

[DeletedUser1075]

I can say that I am producing enough orcs to negotiate whole provinces now with just two armories at level 20. I am not confident that I can say I have enough for workshop upgrades yet, but given how long it is taking to get through the tech tree I don't think that will be an issue for quite some time now.

Goryn or Muf-Muf, I was re-reading portions of this thread and I noticed that Inno is making a distinction between players who started before the first guest race was introduced and after. Is the thinking that expansions are only an issue for players who started before the guest races were introduced?

 

[DeletedUser867]

How does having a useless Level 1 Wonder sitting in a tiny city make the game more interesting?

If somebody only plays a couple of hours, every other day or so, but can duck in for a few minutes a couple of times per day, the chapter II Ancient Wonders are an ideal way to quickly clear their Knowledge Points bar.

 

[DeletedUser]

If somebody only plays a couple of hours, every other day or so, but can duck in for a few minutes a couple of times per day, the chapter II Ancient Wonders are an ideal way to quickly clear their Knowledge Points bar.

Dear me! of course the only "ideal" way to clear a KP bar is by applying it to Research. Otherwise, one will remain stuck in early play for endless days.

 

[Muf-Muf]

Thanks again for the feedback. So far we have seen that most players who're stuck due to the Orcs being needed to negotiate are because of having completed 222+ provinces already, and simply don't have more provinces that don't require Orcs left to complete. We have forwarded this already, but of course we will continue to collect feedback.

Also, I believe your distances are one ring too low. By my count the Relic Sectors per ring accumulate as follows:

We have double checked and the number we have stated is actually correct. The difference is in the terminoligy of "distance" and "ring". The 10th ring has distance 9 (distance = ranking points for completing an encouter minus 1). The first encounters for which you will require Orcs give 11 ranking points each, and are therefore distance 10. This gives a total of 222 provinces to complete without ever needing Orcs.

Goryn or Muf-Muf, I was re-reading portions of this thread and I noticed that Inno is making a distinction between players who started before the first guest race was introduced and after. Is the thinking that expansions are only an issue for players who started before the guest races were introduced?

This is not a distinction that's being made consciously, if at all. Expansions are (and kind of should) be a limitation at all times: the main challenge of Elvenar is building your city in such a way that you can make it efficient in the space you have available to expand your city on. You can make it easier for yourself by buying more Expansions with Premium, yes, but having more expansions is not a necessity for an efficient and/or self-sufficient city, nor is it a guarantee to have a successful city even with a larger area to build on.

And on Top the new residences are nearly useless because they do not produce more habitants, only 2 more per residence square, this is not enough for upgrading other buildings.

On this topic I'd like to quote myself from another thread, as I believe that this should cover this concern:

We will rebalance the level 21 Residences so that they provide 900 population instead of the current 850. This should make these buildings more valuable in your city. We will be offering this change with one of our next updates.

We will also let you in on a small secret and give you a sneak peek for some of the upcoming content: on level 22 the Residences will keep their size compared to level 21 (12 squares), give 1090 population, and produce 53400 Coins over 15.5 hours.

We're looking forward to hearing more feedback and are more than willing to have this discussion. We're always happy to hear different insights and are always looking to improve Elvenar the best we can.

PS. Deleting a post does not mean that I cannot read it anymore - and even deleted feedback is read. Of course we won't reply to it anymore, as it makes no sense to reply to deleted posts for other readers of the thread who do not have the privilige to moderation rights. Just so you know.

 

[DeletedUser867]

The difference is in the terminoligy of "distance" and "ring".

If you take a look at https://en.wiki.elvenar.com/index.php?title=World_Map#Province_Distance, the numbers on the outer edge of each Ring are referred to as the "Distance".

I'd suggest that there is no confusion if you look at the midpoint of each sector, and define your OWN city as Ring 0, with a distance of 0. The adjacent Ring would then be Ring 1 with a Distance of 1, as indicated in the above referenced illustration, and so forth.

the only "ideal" way to clear a KP bar is by applying it to Research

Ancient Wonders deliver PERMANENT benefits and scoring opportunities, WITHOUT consuming any additional Coins, Supplies, nor Goods.

In Elvenar there's no need to hurry, hustle, nor hassle anybody.

• If you still have some partial bars available in your technology tree
• If you have several minutes to collect Coins, Supplies, and Goods (and start a new cycle)
• If you have the Coins, Supplies, and Goods that you need to complete the various technologies

Then sure, dropping Knowledge Points into your Technology Tree is a higher priority.

BUT, if your technology tree is blocked, or simply inconvenient, then Ancient Wonders are a quick and convenient place to park some Knowledge Points.

I'd even argue that Ancient Wonders are a WONDERFUL investment for casual players, because AWs make everything ELSE easier, once you get around to doing the additional research.

 

[DeletedUser118]

The only thing is, they need runes at some points and space in your city to place them. The research tree doesn't need that.

But I agree that they are a good way to spend some KP if you're stuck in the tree.

 

[DeletedUser651]

PS. Deleting a post does not mean that I cannot read it anymore - and even deleted feedback is read. Of course we won't reply to it anymore, as it makes no sense to reply to deleted posts for other readers of the thread who do not have the privilige to moderation rights. Just so you know.

The reason I deleted my posts is because I feel I am being foolish and it is too discouraging. We go through the same thing over and over. Inno makes some change and players scream about it. First we are ignored on beta when we report how bad it is, then it goes live and suddenly you all realize we were correct because the rest of the worlds get very upset. Then, there is a slight panic and the idea is to make us all think we are important. So you send around surveys and ask questions on the forums all the while nothing will ever change. Remember the magic academy? I just feel like a moron for having my hopes up and that maybe this time, you will listen to us.

You all act as if you don't know how the game is played. It is simple. You scout on the world map for 3 reasons...to reach more neighbors, get more expansions, and get kp. There. Got it. But of course you know that. It is always a combination of all three.

We have to start with emphasizing the need to have perfect balancing in the game: a game that is not properly balanced is no fun to play, after all, and it is our goal to make our games fun to play.

You say you want perfect balancing and yet this creates the biggest imbalance of all. The payers have a huge game that is fun to play where you have room for the new races and you can upgrade your cities and build more. If you don't pay you are stuck trying to put huge buildings on a tiny little grid and the game isn't fun at all, all you have are frustrations and as we have seen, when frustrated that much people quit or that is when they spend money.

Still, we believe it is very important for the game as a whole to make sure that it's not possible for players to be too far apart, so to say.

You couldn't make us further apart than if you stuck some people in a populated part of the map and stuck others out in the desert. If you pay and buy these expansions you have a game to play, if you don't, you don't. Obviously that's what the devs want. They want the payers to have huge cities and the non payers to have tiny cities. They obviously want people to be enticed to buy more expansions. But please don't insult our intelligence by saying you don't want us too far apart. With this change some people will be 20 - 30 expansions ahead of others (or maybe even more). It has already been discouraging for the non payers to be so far behind. You watch your friends get more and more space while you are stuck. Your fellowship collaborated score goes in the dumps because you can't contribute. You watch everyone else get room to do things while you wait for the 18 months to be able to catch up to where they are now. Yeah, sure, you need to make money. Ok. But don't kid yourself or try to kid us that this change won't make the two groups farther apart than they are now.

 

[DeletedUser]

Thanks again for the feedback. So far we have seen that most players who're stuck due to the Orcs being needed to negotiate are because of having completed 222+ provinces already, and simply don't have more provinces that don't require Orcs left to complete. We have forwarded this already, but of course we will continue to collect feedback.

Inno's line is "the need to have perfect balancing in the game". And yet you're offering 33 Premium expansions to every player at every level - demolishing any hope of "game balance".

Players who don't purchase expansions are told that they can't earn more - there must be "balance".​

Players who do purchase expansions are told they an buy 33 any time - "balance" is apparently irrelevant.
​

I think I'm bothered by Inno's attitude more than their decision. Do they think we're completely stupid and can't do basic math? Why not just say, "we've decided to cap the number of earned provinces for future players"? I respect Muf-Muf, and disrespect Inno when they put their moderators in a position to make public statements that are transparent attempts to avoid the root issue.

 

[Elderflower]

Thanks for that. Well I'll just carry on until I am blocked. I don't do many quests anyway. I tend to ignore them and forget about them until suddenly I see a green tick and discover I've completed one without realising it.
I'll leave her to twiddle her thumbs in the corner until then. All the best.

She obviously got tired of waiting and changed the quest to Have one armory of level 16 or higher. So suddenly I can move on again with quest line.
Everything comes to him who waits

 

[DeletedUser]

Awesome right? Only one useful neighbor that is unreachable... because of

.

lime = golden mines.

 

[Elderflower]

I'm impressed that you can view so much of your map. How did you do that?

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm impressed that you can view so much of your map. How did you do that?

browser zoom to 25%.

 

[Elderflower]

Doesn't work for me. In Firefox nothing happens and in Chrome if I go below 75% the city or the map just turns blue.

 

[DeletedUser]

Doesn't work for me. In Firefox nothing happens and in Chrome if I go below 75% the city or the map just turns blue.

This was done from Chrome. But clicking on cities/gold mines won't work when you change zoom. You need to go to research/city and back to map then it works.

 

[Elderflower]

ok thanks. I'll try again

 

[DeletedUser651]

I asked people to give feedback regarding this new orc limitation on the US server. Here is the thread:

https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index....please-regarding-the-new-orc-limitation.3389/