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Discussion The Masquerade pt 2

Jaxom

Well-Known Member
My biggest concern is on the Relics quests. I am in Halfling chapter and scouting takes 36 hours. I have maybe 2 provinces that are not completed. I simply will not be able to get all of those relics from provinces. Sure, I can gain some from Tournament and visiting but it really takes a LOT of effort to get those relics. And if I, an advanced player, am complaining, then it is worse for low ranked players in the live worlds.

The relic quests should be reduced in size. There simply isn't anything FUN about being forced to do them. The events should encourage growth, tournament play and visiting.
The events should not be encouraging players to go find the event quest list and decide to not do it when they see more huge relic quests.
 

DeletedUser1923

Guest
[/QUOTE]

- Solve 26 Encounters or gain 26 Relics

[/QUOTE]

These quests are the same thing. Solving encounters is the same as gaining relics. Isn't there something else you can do for the OR so we aren't forced to fight or negotiate a province. Or possibly spend days that are not available attempting to gain the relics by visiting?
 

Maillie

Well-Known Member
Solve 26 encounters or gain 26 relics? For those who are in an active fellowship that might be doable via the tournament, but if you are in a struggling fellowship or in a fs with mostly smaller players (think Farendyll) I feel this is excessive, and with the rewards being aimed at Woodelves and beyond for any benefit I think it's a guarantee that a lot will stop there.
 

DeletedUser1767

Guest
I basically agree with all of the feedback so far. In particular, I was really happy to see some trading quests in the revamped version of Masq. Part I, so I'm disappointed not to see more of those in this list, especially since the time is even shorter -- this is the shortest time we've had for an event yet, I think? so why make the timing so tight?

Also want to second that it's not just people at the end of Halflings who will have trouble with the scout/unlock possibly upgrade-to-12 quests. If you're at the very beginning of a guest race chapter, all your normal buildings are at max, and you're still in the process of building up your settlement and have to get a lot of guest race goods before you're able to move forward... you're going to get stuck. My main city is currently at a point in Halflings where that won't be a problem for me, but it's been a problem for me in a couple of past events. I like that the alternatives are offered, but why are all the options things that people could be stuck on all at once?
 

ALdbeign

Well-Known Member
A lot of better feedback here already than I can come up with, though I will echo that 5 and a half days is not enough time to meet the current requirements. My chapter 5 beta account has 25 workshops already so I'm fine with all the workshop quests but on live it will depend on how many hobbit fields I can delete before it starts.

One question I have had since I first saw this turn of phrase in quests though ...
Solve x Encounters or gain x Relics
Is there a way to solve an encounter without gaining a relic?

If there isn't, what is the point of this phrasing?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Also want to second that it's not just people at the end of Halflings who will have trouble with the scout/unlock possibly upgrade-to-12 quests. If you're at the very beginning of a guest race chapter, all your normal buildings are at max, and you're still in the process of building up your settlement and have to get a lot of guest race goods before you're able to move forward... you're going to get stuck. My main city is currently at a point in Halflings where that won't be a problem for me, but it's been a problem for me in a couple of past events. I like that the alternatives are offered, but why are all the options things that people could be stuck on all at once?

Sorry, my bad. I did mean that for the upgrade building quest, that most players at the beginning of a guest race chapter will have a problem.
But if you are at the end of the Halfling chapter, you also don't have a technology to research
 

DeletedUser1748

Guest
If I remember correctly Timon has said that with the introduction of spells we should be able to make do with just 8 workshops rather than the 10 which most players seem to have.

Why not reflect this by making the challenges 40/32/24/16 rather than multiples of 10

I may be hated for this but it seems to me that a lot of the comment here are from people who want it too easy to be challenging. For example that you need to get such a large amount of supplies - rather than think about boosting their supply production for example by the use of spells

After the first part was rebalanced I completed it in 2-3 days in both of my live world games
 

Arayla

Well-Known Member
I would like to request that the actual quest list get released to Beta before this goes live.

Many of the dedicated players in the Live worlds use the spoiler lists that come from Beta in order to make sure they are able to finish the event in the amount of time given. I think that if they were to try to finish without any advance preparation, there would be players unable to finish, which would create a backlash which is the direct opposite of having the event to begin with.
 

Arayla

Well-Known Member
I would also like to give the feedback that quests that are not appropriately scaled to accommodate the early chapters (1-4) create frustration in the newer players. There are the players we want to "hook" on the game so that they don't abandon their city. If anything, the events should be on the easy side for the early chapters so that they will be encouraged to stay.
 

Dony

King of Bugs
only problem i see with this event is low amount of time to finish it for some players, so tuning some numbers a bit down and its ready for release :) especially when first part was so easy compared to second part
and also reward is not appealing for people without mana
and i think this will be ongoing problem even for future type of buildings, since building has some kind of value and more different stats it gets the less that stat will be to balance that value and when 1 of stat is replaced with supplies for low chapter players then its just degraded

I would also like to give the feedback that quests that are not appropriately scaled to accommodate the early chapters (1-4) create frustration in the newer players.
and which quests are so hard for new players?
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
If I remember correctly Timon has said that with the introduction of spells we should be able to make do with just 8 workshops rather than the 10 which most players seem to have.
This is a good point, especially with 3 wonders that give supplies, many players don't have 10 workshops.
I may be hated for this but it seems to me that a lot of the comment here are from people who want it too easy to be challenging. For example that you need to get such a large amount of supplies - rather than think about boosting their supply production for example by the use of spells
I disagree. I've read the entire thread, and most of the feedback is about lack of time.

I don't think the events should be balanced towards players that log in once a day, but
neither should they be intended only for players that have computer access 24/7.

A reasonable expectation would be for 8 workshops and 3 log ins.
Log in and set productions for overnight
sleep
Log in and set productions
work
get home
Log in and play for a while(really just 3h where you can do beverages/simple tools etc)
Repeat
 

Arayla

Well-Known Member
and which quests are so hard for new players?

Gain 26 relics - Before chapter 5, gaining 18 relics was really challenging in our FS. We all have small cities since we are on the new server (Sinya). All of us have relatively low levels of tier 1 goods since we are continuously growing. This leaves little to use for negotiating, and at this level there are few provinces that can successfully be fought on the map. Tournaments are the only way that we got enough relics, but people who don't fight well aren't able to get them very fast.

If an early-chapter player is not in a FS, they could at most collect 10 relics since they can't play the tournaments have limited tier 1 goods production for negotiating.

Research 1 Technology or upgrade 1 building to level 12 or higher - if the player can't build to level 12 yet, the technology research could take between 1 and 3 days, depending on what is available at that moment. I had completed everything except Advanced Scouts, so I could not proceed until I had 60 KP. It felt like forever.

Produce Toolbox 10 times - lower level players who don't have a bit of extra space won't have 10 workshops. I still only need 6 workshops and I'm in Chapter 4 in that city.
 

ALdbeign

Well-Known Member
While this has been mostly about the quest chain (and the reward is unlikely to change for this event in particular). I feel that these buildings that give mana at higher levels are great for the higher levels but the (intended) balance between mana and culture just doesn't work for the lower level buildings. If you compare it to the Orc Nest for example, it has approximately half the culture per tile. I suggest increasing the culture on the building for the pre-mana chapters, if this means the culture increase from chapter 8 to chapter 9 is minuscule (since culture is intentionally low on mana buildings) then so be it.
 

DeletedUser1707

Guest
I have to agree with everybody else. Quests are way to demanding and boring. Nothing new here except to make it impossible. If it goes through as proposed, I, for one, will not bother with the Quests. A number of others in my FS on live had refused to participate in the first Masquerade. I anticipate the same reaction with part 2.
 

TomatoeHu

Well-Known Member
Events should be fun and exciting. They also shouldn't interfere with anyones progression through the research tree, or interfere with advancing your cities needs/ growth. They should have quests that promote interaction with new players, fellowship members and world map neighbors. Production quests and upgrade quests create havoc in developing cities and for cities that can no longer grow ( already locked in the tree or at the end of the tree ) Whether or not a quest is TOO easy for some players is irrelevant. Of course they will be too easy for some players, but those are not the issues being addressed with events. As an archmage of 2 successfully growing and extremely participatory fellowships, the feedback i have surrounding the events is overwhelmingly negative from all chapters, 1 through 11.

Events should not require the following :

A) additional buildings - especially non boosted buildings. The game has already set all players on a path with restricted expansions and population needs restrict certain amounts of buildings because we do not have unlimited expansions. Some players run 5-6 workshops or 3-5 tier one depending on the use of wonders. The events are never designed for any of the optional builds or unique builds players choose. Example : those who have non boosted buildings.

B )Should not require X number of upgrades -There is never any way to tell which of the player base has upgrades left depending on their chapter progression. They may be out of options and then have to resort to building additional buildings which spirals off to, they cant because theres not enough room in their cities. This makes upgrading a terrible event quest. It also requires players to resort to leaving normal game progression to tackle the needs of the event.

C) The research tree should not be interfered with - there should never be a rush to insert KP. This creates tech lock or if you have already become tech locked what would you do - throw it away in a wonder, a fellows wonder or a neighbors wonder but that is also distracting you from your normal city growth. Players should be unlocking new techs properly and using the time needed between techs to complete upgrades or gaining regular needed productions to assist them in progressing smoothly.

D) scouting, more never works well for any level player. If you had the coin you would already have done it. If you have the troops or goods to cater, you would have already cleared any open provinces. People don't just scout and leave vast numbers of open provinces sitting. Preparation is always required because of the hideous scout times, the scout times vary so much throughout the player base its an awful quest to use as it requires time, coins, troops ( so more time in training ), tools ( more time producing the tools ) or goods ( time needed to make extra, acquire it through trade). Over scouting always occurs with the events rolling out more frequently creating another problem - the provinces are now too difficult to fight or cost more goods then you can create.

Quests that are fun and do not interfere with your city :

Move a building. ( free and fun, come on, it makes me laugh! )
Accept trades
Post trades
Visit a neighbor
Visit 3 neighbors
Gain goods
Spend less then a days worth of KP
Collect x number of productions - tools, goods Example: Collect 5 tier one productions , Collect 2 tier 2 ( doesn't matter whether its a 3hr, 9hr, but stay away from 1 day - they have terrible return rates compared to 3 or 9hr productions and we need regular cycles to play in our cities)
Collect coins/ gain coins
Gain culture OR have x amount of culture boost ( small amount!!! chapter dependent ) to promote new roads, signposts etc for decoration only.
Change your city name ( there are literally endless amounts of players who still don't know how to do this
Cast a Spell
Use an Instant ( after wining one as a reward )
Build a road
Gain Supplies ( not ridiculous amounts either based on 3 3hr productions for example)
Train troops
Put 1 KP in your wonder or spend 3 KP
Put 1 KP in a wonder not your own or spend 3 KP
Find a hidden treasure
Use the wholesaler

Using the declinable quest line for examples of quantity is ideal. Do not use non boosted quests. That is the worst, most backwards approach to learning a game, asking players to do the opposite of what they have struggled to learn and adapt to. The in-game declinable quest line is already in place and chapter dependent and is a bonus during regular game play, not a task or impossible, for all players. These quests use chapter dependent requirements, why stray from these? Use the quantities to better assist us in completing the events.

An Event should not be tasking. It should simply give us a little on-the-side enjoyment to make us want to sign in more often, interact with others more often. Not advance us too quickly or unnecessarily. Remember that players want to continuously complete and advance through event quests. More, simple quests that are more enjoyable brings us back on-line more often and keeps us from feeling hassled, stressed, unhappy or de-railed from normal game play.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
@TomatoeHu has lots of good ideas. And if you want to control the pace a little:
Find a hidden treasure
Find/collect four (4) hidden treasure chests or scout a province or upgrade a building is something that everyone can do in less than three days no matter how advanced they are (People who are stuck in coin-mine land might have to join a FS, but they can do it)

You could also pace things by having every other (or every third or fourth) quest be "collect X thingamajigs" Where thingamajigs are items that spawn round the city like the snowflakes and sugar beets. If you use a number higher than the maximum before they despawn, then it guarantees that everyone has to spend a few hours on that quest. To really control pace, have them not start spawning until day two or three.
 
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