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Discussion Spire of Eternity

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
personally, even if there is some super prize added, im still not sure i would do spire. The costs are still too high. Just calculate how many troops you can make a week, check how many troops a player would loose a week if he fought everything in spire on auto. I think the losses shouldnt be more then 25% then what you can train. Since many players cant train 24/7 and they spend 90% of their current training on tournament allready, anything higher then 25% is too costly. base all those calcultations on wonderfree city ofcourse, wonders should be able to lower the costs and make it more attractive.

In my opinion 3 things need to happen, better prizes, lower cost and a higher chance of winning the good prize.
Let me take 1 building as an example: dwarven armorer: 10%, 5% and 20% chance on winning on the map bosses each week. that means you should win about 7 in 20 weeks if you finish spire every week. so every 140 days you have a boost for 35 days. That doesnt really seem like worth all the troops loss for all those week.
Especially if you probably need to have those boosts in the first place to be able to complete the bosses with the multiple waves.

this feedback is all from endtech player tho, maybe the costs are much better for low lvl chapters (and the prize are better aswell)
 
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silvia

Well-Known Member
I think that what I say has been misinterpreted (sorry I do not know English and google is not perfect)

when I talk about awards, I talk about awards, I do something and they give me something; ¿¿¿¿"%" ""%"" "" %% "" "" ""???????? is the problem, we will play to win" "something" "not to win a" "" "maybe" "" " a prize is something, coins spells, materials or buildings that contribute something, all that can be earned in the Spire is worth anything in my city, nothing,nothing, nothing, nothing; so we play for "" maybe "" " win something that is not worth anything, I do not see the meaning, and programmers have already more than 200 messages saying it; let's hope it does not happen more than always, that people ask for one thing and the programmers go another way, patience has a limit and like the Adventures of the fellowship when it's over it will be late.

proposal.- change the prizes for mana, orcs, products, sensitive products, and change them for prizes not for "" %% "" "no more" "" maybe "" no more lotteries
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
I just tried the negotiation in the spire again. I had not gotten the "wrong person" message when I last tried it and I actually felt like it was a puzzle and I liked it. But I think the costs are on the high side. I spend diamonds and I find 25 diamonds for an extra try with a likelihood of a supply or coin prize too high. I did play with some diamonds for an extra try and they can really add up. Maybe an increasing cost for extra tries might be better, 5, 10, then 25, at least for the first level.

I also think it would be helpful to be able to scroll over the try and see the "nobody wants it" or "wrong person" message. It looks to me that they are colour coded, but it was really hard to figure that out, and I'm not sure if that is correct.

How about putting some ranking points into the prizes.
 
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palmira

Well-Known Member
All the last spire appearances I fought up to the first stage, this one I will be done half way to it, after loosing 2 impossible ( for auto mode) double waves i spent 12 h in time instants to train some squads of dogs to gain... 10h in time instants . Negotiation as it is, with 5 goods, is a no deal to me and after looking at the last minor tweaks in rewards I think this will be my spire participation from now on, if no major changes will be done: up to the first double wave fight. Any further fighting is not worth the troops (and negotiation with 5 goods is mathematically out of the picture).
 

calenmir

Well-Known Member
I actually won 2 time boosts! Woohoo! However they weren't up against coins or supplies instants. I'm still getting that message that 'no one wants it' on the same round. Two folks take it on the round and on the same round the third person says no one wants it. That is still, in my opinion, wrong. If two took it then clearly SOMEONE wanted it. It does, however, help on the next round by eliminating an option for those you had to try a second time on. Because the folks that take it are on the left and right of the person who says no one wants it, that can't be right. If he/she were on the end it might make more sense but not in the middle of the pack.

However, until this game play benefits the FS, it's not worth throwing away goods/coins/supplies on. There needs to be more and it CAN'T BE IN COMPETITION with the tournament. Boosting new players is why I play in the tournament - them having the needed relics to produce more boosted goods and help the FS. Nothing about the spire helps the FS. And the costs in lost, and may I say VERY PRECIOUS goods/troops, is just not enough to make me go there.

As an individual player it does nothing to help my city grow - and make no mistake, this game is still widely pushed as city building. It does however smack heavily of tournament type play - in this case, throwing away goods (or troops) for a chance to beat out ghosts (instead of real troops).

Oh and why does the cursor that takes you to each new level have to be a sword? That just screams that you intended this to be a fighting system. There are quite a few of us that do not fight - do not have the skills, do not want to, just don't, play this game for the city building aspect only. Let's fix that.
 

shadowblack

Well-Known Member
I'm still getting that message that 'no one wants it' on the same round. Two folks take it on the round and on the same round the third person says no one wants it. That is still, in my opinion, wrong.
It's not wrong. Those who wanted it already got it; the rest do not want it. "No one wants it" and "Wrong person" refer ONLY to the remaining spirits and ignore the ones that already got their items because they are hints meant to help you solve the puzzle.
 

Mayili

Member
I don't really mind if the prizes are not that great, most of the time, but having a chance at diamonds, or something worthwhile every now and then. If players are going to play every week, devs don't want to give away too much at a time. I would like it a lot better though, if the diplomacy was more of a puzzle and less of a gamble, as others have said. The 4 options is much better, but if there are going to be 5, players needs more turns or more hints. Maybe it could tell us after each round how much of each item are required for the next round (e.g. '2 ghosts want this')
 

blackbudahflyb

Well-Known Member
My feedback, after trying the Spire with the newest round of changes made:

1. I still love the convince feature. One more "try" would be great especially when needing 5 or more goods.
2. I still think that the goods prices are too high to be losing in each round of guessing.
3. I still think that timed doors should be gone or significantly lower amount of wait time.
4. I still think the prizes are not worth the cost in troops and goods.
Newest feedback:
5. The current prizes have me at 60+ combining catalysts and 20k+ spell fragments after just 4 times in the Spire, where I never went past the 1st map and twice didn't make it half way through the 1st map.

This means I will likely NEVER need to disenchant anything again and will likely NEVER need to produce combining catalysts in my Magic Academy again, if I just do the 1st map of the Spire about once a month.
This also means that the Magic Academy and disenchanting system is obsolete to continue crafting, which I am assuming was not the intent of the Spire.

Solution:
Swap out some of the combining catalyst and spell fragment prizes for better prizes that everyone keeps asking for.
 

calenmir

Well-Known Member
It's not wrong. Those who wanted it already got it; the rest do not want it. "No one wants it" and "Wrong person" refer ONLY to the remaining spirits and ignore the ones that already got their items because they are hints meant to help you solve the puzzle.
I disagree on the grounds that if you are offering in order from left to right and you cannot skip over anyone, then when one person takes it, the next says no one wants it and the third takes it - that is wrong. If I offer from left to right then they should be answering from left to right and the MIDDLE person should not be declining on the grounds that NO ONE wants it. If the 5th person declined it on the grounds that no one wanted it, then you are correct - but not if the person in the middle uses that while someone who was offered it AFTER HIM took it.
 

Dony

King of Bugs
I disagree on the grounds that if you are offering in order from left to right and you cannot skip over anyone, then when one person takes it, the next says no one wants it and the third takes it - that is wrong. If I offer from left to right then they should be answering from left to right and the MIDDLE person should not be declining on the grounds that NO ONE wants it. If the 5th person declined it on the grounds that no one wanted it, then you are correct - but not if the person in the middle uses that while someone who was offered it AFTER HIM took it.
It worked like this only first week of diplomacy then it was fixed, because it doesnt make sense
1. not everybody offering from left to tight
2. 1 strategic choice was removed (you had wasted offering due to this), now its back
 

Syonis

Well-Known Member
If i do the complete first level every week, after 1 year (52 weeks), i have 7% "chance" to have not the library ... youpie ..
You need 90 complete levels to be under 1%, i think you need to think to unlucky humans, like for AWs (fragment), like a previous idea, a choice of the reward ?
There will be more ways to get the spireset in the future.
 

shadowblack

Well-Known Member
I disagree on the grounds that if you are offering in order from left to right and you cannot skip over anyone, then when one person takes it, the next says no one wants it and the third takes it - that is wrong. If I offer from left to right then they should be answering from left to right and the MIDDLE person should not be declining on the grounds that NO ONE wants it. If the 5th person declined it on the grounds that no one wanted it, then you are correct - but not if the person in the middle uses that while someone who was offered it AFTER HIM took it.
Think of it this way:
1) You offer Coins to all five ghosts
2) Two of them take the Coins and leave
3) The remaining three ghosts do not want Coins, so they all say "No one wants it"

Also, the order in which you select the offers doesn't matter. The ghosts give their replies after all five have received something. No one cares if you make the offers in the order 1-2-3-4-5, or in order 1-3-2-4-5, or in any other order. Diplomacy is hard enough once you get to 5+ goods you can choose from, no need to complicate it further.
 

silvia

Well-Known Member
There will be more ways to get the spireset in the future.
i loved!! ahahahaha,
if the answer will be yes, the programers can erase the tower, hahah, the only reward of the tower is the setbuilding, if i can get from another way ... the tower is fall down obviosly
i do not think what happens, obviosly
 

Syonis

Well-Known Member
i loved!! ahahahaha,
if the answer will be yes, the programers can erase the tower, hahah, the only reward of the tower is the setbuilding, if i can get from another way ... the tower is fall down obviosly
i do not think what happens, obviosly
More ways inside the tower. I doubt that there will be ways to get the set outside of it.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
The prizes are poor. Maybe the set building is good, but I did the first level of the spire and it was very costly.
 

Potvorisko

Well-Known Member
This week, I used fire phoenix, unleash unit upgrade and mage magnificent multiplier. So, I was able to do all stages in spire, I used diplomacy just once and I was lucky. But, it is kind of disapointing and unlogic at the same time, when I won I think 100 or 80 diamonds from some guard before some colddown gate (I guess 2 map or so) and after defeating final boss at the third map I got JUST 50 diamonds?!!! It feels really unfair to do the final fight and then win less then somewhere backwards. I guess, that prises schould have some gradation. They are not just the poor itself, but on the top of that, they are chaotic and unfair. The only positive of this week spire for me was, that I was lucky to gain moonstone library, now I need just endless scroll to have this set complete. After all, I play the spire just because this is beta.
 

harvdog

Guest
my thoughts on spire so far:

1. I like having spell fragments as a reward. it is something you don't normally get as a reward and makes the spire worth exploring. I would also recommend adding blueprints and royal restoration, as these are extremely hard to come by.
2. having a second wave in combat is a little too much. I was stopped cold about halfway up the spire, and lost a lot of troops, trying several times. if you keep a second wave it should be significantly smaller than the main wave.
3. I would like to see a third option, namely a choice to perform an event-style quest, or possibly some kind of puzzle to solve, (or both) something to make it different from exploring and tournaments, which already consist of fight or negotiate.
4. otherwise not too bad for a beta.
 

harvdog

Guest
I am also disappointed by all the bad attitudes regarding the spire. remember this is a beta test, the point of which is to iron out problems. they want constructive feedback not griping. maybe if some of you had less of an attitude the developers might be more willing to listen. or perhaps you can become a programmer and get a job at inno and fix it for us.