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Discussion Spire of Eternity

Richord

Well-Known Member
TOO EXPENSIVE!
Convincing or fighting; it's just too expansive.

To make convincing less terrible:
Make it a game without extra losses; offer coins/supplies/goods and pay after you get the right order. Not extra costs with every try.

SAME mistake as with FA; not worth doing comparing with the Tournament, certainly now it thwarts the Tournament directly!
 

calenmir

Well-Known Member
On my first encounter, I offered only coins and supplies. As you can see in the image, two ghosts took the supplies, but one is telling me Nobody Needs It. I think this should actually say - Wrong Person. I get that it gives me a huge advantage (especially with that first person, who I guessed wrong with), but since 2 ghosts did take the supplies his 'refusal' is not correct.

 

shadowblack

Well-Known Member
I can't see your image, but based on what you said there's no mistake:
- two ghosts wanted supplies and took them
- the remaining three ghosts do not want Supplies, thus you are told that no one wants it
Getting told "Wrong person" implies that one or more of the remaining ghosts wants it.
 

calenmir

Well-Known Member
Ok, it's showing for me - awww. Well it won't let me upload the file, I keep getting an error - so I tried pasting the link (which is what I can see - I guess I'm seeing it because it's my post). I'll get my AM to report it because she also got that same message when I told her about it. Thanks for letting me know.
 

shadowblack

Well-Known Member
In order to upload a file to the forum it needs to be below 1 MB. If your file size is above 1 MB you will get an error message. Any file that is too big needs to be made smaller, such as resizing a screenshot or cutting off unnecessary parts of it.
 

calenmir

Well-Known Member
I realize it's just a fun little game to play in, but when the rewards aren't wanted it's really not worth the risk of losing troops or goods/coins/supplies. I guess it's hard to come up with good prizes and I'll admit the occasional (very, very rare) need for coins, I do have the patience to wait for my residents to cough up the rent. I can get many of my needed items (spells, aw fragments, etc.) from the tournament and the tournament benefits my FS. So I rather think the Spire needs to offer something 'special'. Winning a building that has the benefit of 1 pop, 165 culture and after 48 hours a T2 good, isn't worth spending precious diamonds on (that's as far as I've managed to get and I do realize the benefits are based on my chapter) - upgrading it wouldn't be worth it either as far as I can tell. And any further benefits, such as spell fragments are only given if you win the set. And frankly I win enough useless items that playing in the spire for the CHANCE to win the set (in order to get spell fragments) is simply not worth it.

The percentage for winning an unwanted item - in my case 45% for coin rain, 45% for supply windfall - is also too high. I realize losing money and supplies while gambling here would seem to make these items valuable - but right now it just doesn't.

For me it's fun - I'll admit that - but once the fun wears off - I'm not sure it'll be something that folks want to continue spending valuable resources on.
 

cestbienmoi

Well-Known Member
It was some fun with the new convince possibility, it is a sink for ... but not sure i will do that every week !

For another account at the end of the game, i tried but it is impossible on beta, because it is very difficult to acquire some T5, T6, it will be easier to limit T4, T5, T6 to only boosted production (or resolves the unbalanced T on beta) !
 
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Maillie

Well-Known Member
I tried The Spire again for the third time. I got further this time, but the end result was basically the same, no troops and a major loss of goods. On the first round of convincing I used one type of goods, which was accepted by 2. The second round I used one of the other types of goods, this made it possible to finish the negotiations without diamonds, but only on the one with the least choices.

I dislike gambling, since there is never an end to losing. If you win you want to try one more, which eventually is going to end in losing. This is far too costly to be worth the prizes that you don't even get to choose. Whatever you need the least is apt to be what you get ... at a great expense.
 

cestbienmoi

Well-Known Member
"With our daily update today, we have decreased the overall squad size in the Spire of Eternity by roughly 20%."

Sure is it deployed ? 4 steps before the end of the level 1, we are already at 200% SS !
 

calenmir

Well-Known Member
I'm guessing the rewards for the Spire are the same whether you fight or convince - I'm hoping this is correct. But my thinking is that maybe there could be better rewards. If you fight maybe one of the rewards could be a Magic Spell that allows you to use once on any warrior to restore all losses of that warrior - or even 50% of those losses. I would hope if that was possible, you would also make the percent chance of winning that prize rather high - not 5% or some crappy percentage. If not a spell (which I suspect would take some doing to create), then just WIN the troops lives back???

If you only Convince, perhaps you could win a spell to recover lost GOODS. If no spell is available to create, then the reward should be a considerable amount of goods that were asked for in that particular level. And again, to be fair it should have a higher percentage chance to win.

Goods and Troops take a lot of time to make/train - barring the need for coins and supplies, time is the biggest (for me) need. It doesn't matter how many coin or supply instants you have if you don't have a time boost to speed it up. So time boosts should also be at a higher percent chance of winning. But then, I guess that is where you get players to pay diamonds. The problem is, there is no reward worth the cost of buying diamonds. For me, there is no incentive to play because I have 132 coin instants ranging from 33% to 5%. I have 160 supply instants. So as you can see, I don't need or want them. I'm flooded with them.

The one big issue is that those rewards most wanted or needed are the hardest to get - or don't exist at all. If there was a chance at much more NEEDED rewards at a higher percent chance to win them, perhaps players might be more inclined to play in the spire and maybe even buy diamonds to keep going - knowing there is a big chance of good rewards?

Just a thought. No math or facts to back it up.
 

Maillie

Well-Known Member
I have played the Spire three times. I have used Auto Fight, Manual Fight, and Negotiations. I lost quite a bit of troops in Autofight. I lost about the same in Manual Fighting. I forfeited a lot of goods in Catering. What I got for rewards for what I did win was clearly not equal to the cost of playing. I believe that there should be a checkbox next to the rewards, and they should be rewards that merit our efforts to get them. I do think people would be more willing to try if there was a particular thing that they could "earn," rather than a very slim chance to get.

I truly have tried everything available and haven't a desire to try again soon.
 

blackbudahflyb

Well-Known Member
I played the most recent version of the Spire, here are my thoughts on it:

1. - Convince is FUN!
2. - Convince is expensive and with more goods needed, more chances need to be given.
3. - In Convince, the amounts of goods need to be lowered if we are to lose them each time we guess. If we don't lose them with every guess then the amounts are fine.
4. - Fighting in single waves is comparable to the tournaments fighting, and I like that.
5. - Fighting in multiple waves needs to be removed or streamlined with certain troops needed for all the waves. For now it wastes too many troops and I end up losing too. So multiple waves just signal to me to not waste troops and go right to Convince.
6. - If the Spire stays this way, then I WILL choose the Tournaments over the Spire to sink my goods and troops into. The Tournament and Spire WILL NOT be participated in at the same time, unless I am at the end of the chapters waiting on a new guest race to be created and released to us.
7. - AND like I said before...THE PRIZES ARE NOT WORTH THE GOODS AND TROOPS NEEDED!!
 

Loki Blue

Well-Known Member
There has to be variety in the rewards given, because seriously, the same stuff every single time has gotten very old, very quickly. I've completely lost interest in this thing. I won't be doing it Live if it remains unchanged. What would be the point?

And this is coming from the one who usually finds some value in everything we test here.
 

cestbienmoi

Well-Known Member
Really 5000 mana cost for one slot for convince ? A unwinnable battle with 2 waves, only one try for convince per day and what happens if i loose (>50%), another day to wait or stop the production of the city ?
 

Jaxom

Well-Known Member
Stopping on the first 3-wave chest. Looked at it with manual fight, not going to win unless I fire up the phoenix or other boosts. Convince is too expensive.

The rewards are just not worth it. A 20% chance that I might get something useful. I am offered 50% chance to get 30 diamonds. I'd have to win those 30 diamonds a LOT of times before they amounted to something I could actually buy something with.

Maybe, just maybe, if the spire is offered at a time when I am using boosts in tournament then I might make use of the boosts to go further in the spire. But if the spire always comes when I am not working advanced levels on tournament then I won't be going very far.

The rewards just aren't worth the costs. I don't see anyway to win the 3-wave battles without boosts and I am not going to waste the boosts on these rewards. At least with tournament I am helping the fellowship gain rewards that all can use.

Spire is getting better but still not worth the costs.
 

shadowblack

Well-Known Member
Well, I finished the first Spire map. I had to use a combination of Fighting and Convincing (mostly the latter). Based on the rewards I think this will be the last time I bother completing the first map of the Spire – the rewards are simply NOT WORTH IT.

For comparison, here's the first difficulty of FoE's Guild Expeditions.

Notes:
The player can use up to 8 units in battle (even when it is a two-wave battle).
All enemy units encountered on this difficulty are from the previous age.
The Attack and Defense bonuses of enemy units depend on the player's age.
All goods needed for negotiation are also from the previous age, and you pay 1 (one) good per offer (for example 1 Gas).

Encounter 1:
Enemies: 3 Light units
Negotiation: Coins and Supplies

Encounter 2:
4 Artillery units
Negotiation: Coins and Supplies

Encounter 3:
2 Heavy units and 3 Ranged units
Negotiation: Coins, Supplies and one type of Good from previous age

Encounter 4 (first 2-wave battle):
Wave 1: 3 Fast units and 3 Ranged units
Wave 2: 3 Light units
Negotiation: Coins, Supplies and two types of Goods from previous age

Encounter 5:
2 Light, 2 Heavy and 1 Artillery units
Negotiation: Coins, Supplies and one type of Good from previous age

Encounter 6:
2 Light, 2 Fast and 2 Heavy units
Negotiation: Coins, Supplies and one type of Good from previous age

Encounter 7:
2 Fast, 3 Heavy and 2 Ranged units
Negotiation: Coins, Supplies and two types of Goods from previous age

Encounter 8 (second 2-wave battle)
Wave 1: 3 Light, 2 Artillery, 2 Ranged units
Wave 2: 3 Fast units
Negotiation: Coins, Supplies and three types of Goods from previous age

Encounter 9:
1 Light, 1 Artillery, 2 Heavy and 3 Ranged units
Negotiation: Coins, Supplies and two types of Goods from previous age

Encounter 10:
2 Light, 2 Artillery, 2 Heavy, 1 Ranged units
Negotiation: Coins, Supplies and two types of Goods from previous age

Encounter 11:
4 Artillery and 4 Ranged
Negotiation: Coins, Supplies and three types of Goods from previous age

Encounter 12 (third 2-wave battle):
Wave 1: 2 Light, 2 Artillery, 2 Fast, 2 Heavy units
Wave 2: 3 Ranged
Negotiation: Coins, Supplies and four types of Goods from previous age

Encounter 13:
3 Light, 2 Fast, 3 Heavy units
Negotiation: Coins, Supplies and three types of Goods from previous age

Encounter 14:
2 Light, 2 Artillery, 2 Heavy, 2 Ranged
Negotiation: Coins, Supplies and three types of Goods from previous age

Encounter 15:
2 Light, 1 Artillery, 1 Fast, 2 Heavy, 2 Ranged
Negotiation: Coins, Supplies and four types of Goods from previous age

Encounter 16:
Wave 1: 1 Light, 2 Artillery, 2 Fast, 1 Heavy, 1 Ranged, 1 Military Drummer
Wave 2: 2 Light, 2 Heavy units
Negotiation: Coins, Supplies and five types of Goods from previous age

Also, in FoE you don't have gates blocking your progress. Instead you have attempts: You start with 8 and spend 1 attempt per encounter, regardless of whether you succeed or fail. There are a few rewards that include a chance to earn extra attempts, either 2 or 4, more often 2 (and yes, this can bring you above 8 attempts). As long as you have less then 8 attempts you gain 1 attempt per hour, and you can also buy attempts with Diamonds or Medals (the cost in medals increases each time you buy an attempt and resets when the GE ends). I definitely prefer FoE's Attempts over Elvenar's Gates - the gate timers are too limiting and effectively force me to do 4 encounters at a time.