Fair Trades: Are they really?

[Lovec Krys]

@soleil If you want to upgrade your wonders and don't want to do tournaments,
I have one bad news for you:
Every 5 levels on each wonder you have to make the rune ring again (on 1,6,11,...).
Without tourney help you'll have to invest lots of KP into other player's wonders or get stuck with leveling the wonders.

 

[DeletedUser]

I could check tournaments again, but the cost might be worse than 2x or 3x of what my cost is to finish one encounter in a province. On my map, my relics cost is 41 goods to 160 goods per relic for negotiating. And my losses are minimal for battling because my squad size is larger. I’d rather use up my 6k spell fragments and get the crystal relics to be able to make the catalysts.

If your definition is to save space to put in a bunch of level 1 workshops for an event, then yes, we have very different ideas of what efficient means.

@Lovec Krys so far I’m doing okay with runes. I had enough to build both the first two wonders and so far have 6 for the golden abyss to upgrade later. Since I’m a patient player, should have enough for that one to upgrade. And working on the endless excavation runes now. I’ve helped others in the past, not really a big deal. What I won’t do again is help someone who isn’t reciprocal, been there, done that. Who knows, maybe inno will figure out something with runes. I have faith in them.

 

[Karvest]

Amount of relics you can get from the map is limited, especially if you are not going to overscoot. And each next would cost more. Tournament relics costs reset each week, no matter how many relics you've got from previous tournaments. Relics income from tournament is limited only by your goods/troops production (that what we call efficiency of the city), troops health/strength, and time spent on tourney (I know players who don't maximize their tournament score and stick at 4-5k points because too lazy to click more, it's too time consuming).

 

[SoggyShorts]

If your definition is to save space to put in a bunch of level 1 workshops for an event, then yes, we have very different ideas of what efficient means.

Nope. Efficiency is producing using less space/time/resources. Not "my" definition, the definition. That's it. no exceptions, no clever wordplay that's just what it means, and your city is simply not as efficient as it could be.
Pick anything that your city can do, and I'll show you a city design that can do it cheaper/faster/smaller. Event quests, tournament, goods production, tech progression, FA, you pick.
It's just math.

 

[DeletedUser2632]

Eh, off topic but having done 1,600+ points in tourney and hit 10 chests for ~62 weeks consecutively now, I currently have 19,000+ relics in total. I have cleared 368 provinces and an EE, so that means ~3,500 relics are from provinces and ~16,000 are from tournaments. Getting 8 relics per province cleared, assuming you don't have an EE, you will need to clear almost 2,400 provinces to get that number with provinces alone. Clearing 1 province a day will take you 6.5 years to get 19,000 relics. I do not know how many relics I have already used making spells, but a rough estimate is ~3,500, so my total relics earned should be closer to ~23,000

Additionally I have also currently 900+ runes (alas, most of them not what I need most atm)

 

[DeletedUser]

@Karvest yes, I realize it’s limited but I’m not looking for 1000’s of relics, enough so that when the challenges come up, I can get to the 2400 mark. And then also use my pet food during that time with my manufacturing spells on the non-boosted. The cost per relic in tournaments is really high. That’s just not an efficient way for me to gain relics. It’s probably why people are using the mm spell on boosted factories vs non boosted factories.

Using up my spell fragments to get 5 relics is cheaper than doing 5 provinces in a tournament.

@SoggyShorts, that is your definition, to be efficient is to able to accomplish something with the least waste of time and effort; efficiency is producing enough, not overbuilding and not wasting. Demolishing factories because of overbuilding is a huge waste of time and effort. Overbuilding workshops for points is time wasted. Overbuilding residences is also time wasted because to go from a level 7 residence to 8 costs you more in culture than it is to upgrade 4 residences to max and leave the others at a lower level.

I’m now done with everything for chapter 3 in goods and pre-planning ahead for a new chapter. My city is maximized for everything I need and didn’t waste 20k planks trying to upgrade them to a higher level before I actually need higher level factories. Nor is my space wasted on level 1 workshops.

I can also cross trade if I want to.

@RandomNo. no offense, but that's an excessive amount of relics and runes to have and not using them up.

 

[SoggyShorts]

yes, I realize it’s limited but I’m not looking for 1000’s of relics

500 of each for your boosts is the most obvious goal if you understand efficiency.

The cost per relic in tournaments is really high.

No, it's not, it's actually much cheaper than the map- look again.

that is your definition

Nice try, but nope. As I said, Pick anything that your city can do, and I'll show you a city design that can do it cheaper/faster/smaller. Event quests, tournament, goods production, tech progression, FA, you pick.

 

[DeletedUser]

This is a pic of one marble encounter I'll soon be working on in my map to gain 1 relic and 1 kp. I'll have to create an fs and add up the encounters to find out what it costs to gain one relic again. I'll do that tomorrow once the tournment starts.

If I'm already done with what i need for chapter 3, I have no reason to max out my boosted goods with relics at chapter 3.

 

[SoggyShorts]

This is a pic of one marble encounter I'll soon be working

Is that a high, low or average one in that province? What are the costs for the other 7 encounters?

 

[SoggyShorts]

I have no reason to max out my boosted goods

Except of course to increase the efficiency of your factories

 

[DeletedUser]

@SoggyShorts I already told you they range between 41 and 160 at the top.

For now my gold phoenix makes up the difference if I need to have a higher boosted rate. But since I'm done with chapter 3 boosted goods needs, I won't be using it and focus on the other two.

 

[DeletedUser2632]

@Karvest
@RandomNo. no offense, but that's an excessive amount of relics and runes to have and not using them up.

Lol, trust me, I'm using them as fast as I can. My MA is running 24/7, making either crafting catalyst or magical manufacturing. I actually have only 680 scrolls and 460 dust relics because I use those for making them MM.

I can't do much about runes. What do you do when you have 99 GA runes but your GA is not on a rune level? Inno doesn't have a function for excess runes. For runes and relics, let's just say I'm earning them faster than I can use them.

Anyway, that's not the point. The point is, doing tournaments is the best way to get the things that you need in this game. I haven't even talked about how KPs from tournaments help speed up your progress through the chapters

 

[DeletedUser]

@RandomNo. I'm doing okay progressing through the chapters, maybe that's where we have a disconnect. I'm super patient. I don't really feel the need to blast through chapters.

Tournaments before I quit weren't this bad, but now it seems they are being excessively used and costs to do them has increased. idk If you stop doing tournaments, level your wonders and use up your runes and relics it will make for a very boring game. It's why I hope to see more stuff in the game. I am patient but it can get a bit boring if there isn't an event going on. Why you'll see my city name as Snoozenar.

 

[Karvest]

Stop doing tournaments to level up wonders is nonsense. With tournaments you do it x3-5 times faster.

 

[SoggyShorts]

@SoggyShorts I already told you they range between 41 and 160 at the top.

Do you understand how averages work? "Range from 41 to 160" is almost useless information.
That could mean
41,41,41,41,41,41,41,160 or
41, 160,160,160,160,160,160,160,
a massive difference

I don't really feel the need to blast through chapters.

don't worry, you won't.

 

[DeletedUser]

@Karvest, I certainly hope they don't keep increasing costs for tournaments. I did just get 6 kps from my wishing well in the last day. woot! I'm smoking through this chapter now!

@SoggyShorts what difference does it make if I give you a range or an average, tournaments are still way more expensive than my map to gain 1 relic and 1 kp. Maybe your map is different and tournament costs are the same because you over-scouted but I haven't over-scouted.

 

[SoggyShorts]

@SoggyShorts what difference does it make if I give you a range or an average

The difference it makes is whether or not your statement that "the tournament is 2-3x as expensive for getting relics" is true or false.
If you take the cheapest world map province and the most expensive tournament province, then yeah it's going to be true-- but is it really accurate? Perhaps a little misleading, no?

Would it not be more accurate to add up all 8 encounters on the map and get an average to compare with all 4 encounters in a tournament province?

 

[Lovec Krys]

@soleil By doing tournaments intensivelly I can build new wonders almost immediatelly after researching them despite being fast in chapter progress.
Having unboosted manufactories in city can't be efficient in the long time, but it can be efficient enough (=sufficient) to satisfy your needs.I think that this is the difference between you and Soggy when you both use the word efficient. You're using the word efficient, but in fact it means that your city is efficient enough to satisfy your needs (from my point of view:at least for now, but in the future you might need to reconsider it, but that's realy up to you, we can't control your city, we can only provide some advices).

If you plan to use relics, you'll sooner or later need to get back to doing tournaments, otherwise you'll be unable to get enough relics from map, especially if you're planning to go slow and not overscout.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I haven't over-scouted.

Neither have I

 

[DeletedUser]

@Lovec Krys I agree about having enough relics, but right now tournaments are pretty bad. I'm happy to wait it out and see what else they do besides the magic academy. Fortunately, I have a lot of spell fragments and maybe it will get me to where I need to be for the challenges.

In looking ahead to chapter 4, I can see that I'm 16 days away from having enough planks for research and building upgrades. I'm not even done with researching chapter 3 yet. With natural kp generation, I'm about 18 days away from finishing chapter 3 research and will have all of my buildings and new cobble streets. In 18 days, I'll have enough planks for chapter 4. I didn't need to overbuild my planks if it's taking care of 2 chapters. Tournaments are what is making the difference between how you guys play and how I play.

Since we already have 2 sentient goods, a 3rd one is coming. All of the factories will be boosted factories. By building them now, I ensure I have the room and not demolishing something later plus I get goods to boot. It works for me.