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Fair Trades: Are they really?

Karvest

Well-Known Member
For some it can be low, for some not ;)
It IS low, if you are planning your city not like a garden, and want something more than progressing through 1-2 chapters a year without tourneys/events/etc. Otherwise these tiny amounts are like 1 day production per chapter (I'm not talking about GR goods/mana/seeds/sentient, just about T1-T3).
 
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soleil

Guest
@Karvest make fun of me all you want, I’m not overbuilding for optional events, nor paying 15x more per relics, kp or spells. What moonlady is showing that you don’t need as many goods as you’re producting. You’re playing as a chapter 30 with a chapter 14 account for tournaments to play faster.

I added in all of my building upgrades for chapter 4 and it’s now higher in tier 1 but my slowest generation is tier 3 goods. That is why cross trades for a chapter 4 person can be super valuable. Will I do trades? I’m not sure right now. I’m kind of getting turned off of trading now too.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
I added in all of my building upgrades for chapter 4 and it’s now higher in tier 1 but my slowest generation is tier 3 goods. That is why cross trades for a chapter 4 person can be super valuable.
Valuable? Yes.
Efficient? No.
It is far better to build your own boosted T3 than it is to trade and T1 for T3 at the suggested 16:1 ratio the game provides.
I’m not sure right now. I’m kind of getting turned off of trading now too.
Have you at least considered building Travelling merchants instead of your non-boosted?
 

soleil

Guest
Yes @SoggyShorts I realize building t3 is a good thing. With how fast my t1 produces, I can sit and wait for my t3 or cross trade my t1. It's 26 days currently for my planks but 61 days for magic dust. This will change again once I get to chapter 4 and upgrade my buildings and add in a few more t3.

I have 1 traveling merchant and love them, no culture no pop but man are they ugly. :D I try to hide them. I'm going to use the phoenix buildings and see how that affects my gems production. If I can get a second phoenix upgrade from the event which I should it will increase the production to I think 80%.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
I'm going to use the phoenix buildings and see how that affects my gems production. If I can get a second phoenix upgrade from the event which I should it will increase the production to I think 80%
You know that the production bonus from the Phoenix is only active when you use pet food on it, right? And that only lasts 3.5 hours.
 

soleil

Guest
@SoggyShorts Yup, I know. It's 2 collects on my gems. Not planning on using them constantly but as often as I can to get my days down more in line with kp research generation. I also have room for all 3 traveling merchants when I pre-planned for chapter 4.
 

soleil

Guest
@SoggyShorts while I know you have a real disdain for how I play, and non-boosted, it's hard for me to understand why you're so against what I'm doing. You're so into math and figuring things out. Truly, if you open your mind you might love how I play. You would be awesome at this.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
it's hard for me to understand why you're so against what I'm doing
To be clear, I'm not at all against how you or anyone else plays. I only object to inaccurate of incomplete claims of efficiency.
There are far more players that read these forums than post on them, and I do not wish for them to be misled.

E.G. you say you don't want to build and sell factories multiple times because the goods spent upgrading them is then "wasted"
The reason such a statement is incomplete is that it doesn't take opportunity cost into account.
If selling a factory frees up space and population that can be used to produce 8x the goods "wasted" on the previous building, it results in a net profit.

E.G. 2 you have a very early perspective of the game that misses some of the scaling and exaggerates the importance of early costs. Like a tier 1 factory upgraded from level 1 to level 23 costs under 200,000 Tier 1 goods. Sounds like a lot to "waste", but when you consider that advanced cities make that in 2-3 days it really isn't.

E.G.3 you have said
1. you don't want or need to build more workshops
2. you don't plan to complete the event at least in part because the production requirements are "tedious"

These are both perfectly acceptable statements individually but taken together they are in conflict. Events offer some of the highest rewards for lowest effort in the game, but if your city can't even handle the easiest version of the event elvenar has ever had, you are imo missing out. Take the Phoenix that you said you want to use- Getting 2-3 evolutions instead of 6 or 7 means you get 50% less boost out of those birds. (and less pop/goods/coins/whatever)

EG 4 Your continued disdain for the tournament does not seem to be based on facts or anything more than the narrowest short-term goals. Like when the only example you used to compare it with the world map was the encounter that cost 41 and not the one that costs 160 or any of the others in-between.

Again, far more players read the forums than post here, so it is important to provide complete, accurate, and factual information.
 
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SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Truly, if you open your mind you might love how I play. You would be awesome at this.
Honestly, I think absolutely anyone would be "awesome at this"
Elvenar is extremely easy and it's actually almost impossible to "fail" in any meaningful way.
The only question is how fast or slow you want to progress.

You have stated that your desired pace of progression is to complete chapters at the same rate as your hourly KP production.
There is very little challenge to this. Very low efficiency is required if the goal is to move so slowly.
That's why you can afford to have non-boosted factories instead of boosted that make double or triple or even up to 700% more

note: This is not a judgment. Players enjoy different paces, there's nothing wrong with that.
 

soleil

Guest
you say you don't want to build and sell factories multiple times because the goods spent upgrading them is then "wasted"
The reason such a statement is incomplete is that it doesn't take opportunity cost into account.
With how I play I don't need to demolish factories and rebuild them. I'll always have more original t1-t3. There is no reason for me to keep rebuilding factories. You have one planks factory, I might have 9 when I get to chapter 14. < why I will make more than you in chapter 14.

I've never been able to finish an event yet. First it was, a ridiculous amount of goods we had to give away, (even though I could afford to I wouldn't) those quests are now gone. then it was accept trades-these quests are now fixed since they let me buy from the trader again (Thank You Inno), and now it's a ridiculous amount of workshop quests. If you're fine with doing a bunch of workshop quests and removing valuable factories for workshops that's totally your prerogative. I'm not going to.


You have stated that your desired pace of progression is to complete chapters at the same rate as your hourly KP production.
There is very little challenge to this. Very low efficiency is required if the goal is to move so slowly.
The challenge is not kp generation, (that's how I balance out my goods and when I decide to trade) you still don't know why I do this but for now I am not going to tell you.
 

soleil

Guest
If you were actually interested in this, open minded, I'd tell you but nope not anymore. It's a shame too because you seem to like to have more complex things to play around with.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
If you were actually interested in this, open minded, I'd tell you but nope not anymore. It's a shame too because you seem to like to have more complex things to play around with.
Wow. All the help I've tried to give you and all of the knowledge I've tried to share with you, and this is the response? To call me closed minded?

All you have to offer is the terrible strategies that you share and lies about some secret strategy. I've always found at least some value in other's opinions even if they seemed strange, but for the first time, I am certain that someone actually has nothing to offer. Congrats on being the first person on my ignore list across several forums and a couple of decades.
 

lehayes

Well-Known Member
The problem comes later when the default ratio allows a chapter 5 city to drain a chapter 14 city dry with 2 star trades. Of course if you get addicted to using cross tier trades early on you may find frustration in later chapters when players start refusing your larger trades.
Hi SoggyShorts,
I've started to come around to your way of thinking. . Understand, I still think you're conclusions are off; but, that's another discussion.
From my experience, and your math supports it, the problem is the 4/4/4 ratio. . When I first stared, I was told that I needed 4 T1 / 4 T2 / 4 T3 Manufactories. . What I've found is: that leaves you with not enough T1 and too much T3. What I've come to believe is you need something closer to: 6 T1, 4 T2, and 2 T3 goods.

The other problem comes from people depending on Cross-Tier trades when you don't manufacture T1 and T2 goods at all, o not in the right quantity. . Personally, I currently have 5 T1, 3 T2, and 1 T3 manufactories and about 5 tiles in that row.

BTW: your friends on us2 miss you.

Be well,
Lon
 

Kasia

Well-Known Member
@lehayes Elvengems typically recommends more T1/T2 than T3 buildings - https://elvengems.com/city-balance-buildings/
I find at my current level with all the event buildings that generate T3 I dropped down to 2 factories without issue. I am contemplating another T2 building. I do occasionally post a cross-tier trade, but I keep it 1:1 if possible.

I do feel that the trader needs to have the limitations removed as that would ultimately allow those nasty T1:T3 cross-tier trades to be balanced.