[Discussion] The Solution: Player Movement

[DeletedUser607]

I have 127 gold Mines..so while I'm in Orc and using builders to make those expensive upgrades, I can't scout.
"

okay, interesting. I've looked up your city, and it is actually quite close to my city (you are another 3 circles outside my scouted area - I can see to nemaninka and suke southeast of your location).

and that account is in the very early stages of the game, I would suggest pushing your residences... ;-)

 

[DeletedUser]

okay, interesting. I've looked up your city, and it is actually quite close to my city (you are another 3 circles outside my scouted area - I can see to nemaninka and suke southeast of your location).

and that account is in the very early stages of the game, I would suggest pushing your residences... ;-)

Thanks for taking the time and interest, Juni - I appreciate it when someone takes the time to make an informed response. My experience with coins and gold mines, though, is from my Orc level city on US1.

I missed out on early Beta release, but am fascinated with the game. On US1, the moderators have informed me that we're not allowed to discuss pre-release issues after I started a post about the upcoming Player Move. The entire thread was deleted after a few days of active comments.

So I enjoy being here where all of you are keen and experienced, where there's still time to offer feedback. On the live world Forum, it's guaranteed to be pointless, since we're only giving opinions about development that they've committed to and won't modify.

#Katzenprinz

Since this is a game, which is only limited by creativity and not by "real-world" factors - no one really needs to "suffer", do they? But this may be where players have very different viewpoints.

If you're a fan of the PvP games, where there are clear winners / losers, or adversarial types of games, I can see your point. But my understanding is that Elvenar isn't supposed to be a re-hash of FoE et al: it's a game targeting the more social market for PvE players.

These players - like me - don't want real life injustice, inequity, or scenarios where some "suffer". We gravitate to the Elvenar graphics because they were hopeful. We gravitated to the game because is was so very cooperative.

And yet the trend is away from those original concepts. I won't re-hash - we've covered all the individual topics before. But "oh well, ,life is unfair" isn't the right theme for attracting social players to Elvenar.

 

[DeletedUser118]

About Beta: A reason why I'm staying here and only here. In here I can discuss about all the new things without having to worry to talk about things which we are not allowed to. We just don't have that in here and that's a big plus, I'd say. ^^

About the game: I'm not really sure what kind of players Inno wants to attract with this game to be honest. For me its just another Forge copy since that game ran so nice and why not try to make more money with a close concept? ^^

To me there will always be those who are "suffering". Else we would really need to take everything out of the game that provides you with better stuff which you can buy for money. The social thought sounds nice and actually I wouldn't even mind having it in this game. But that's definitely not gonna happen.

So to get the loop back to the originla topic. I still see the idea Inno brought up as a pretty nice one, plus its one many players wanted for quite a long time. You just have to remember the so many mournings of players wanting to be put together so they wouldn't suffer in lonelyness. Adding those ppl from the outer rings first into the middle will at least help those the most devastated to find new friends and neighbors. I'm sure many of us will benefit from that. Maybe not everyone but still alot of active players and those, at least in my opinion, should always be treated best first.

 

[DeletedUser1075]

I'm deeply disappointed. I've been living in a barely-populated wilderness and now because of this Big Move I've lost four of the few active neighbours I had (spinster, Tjalle Finurt, Kilowog and Raina). This is not what anyone would call an improvement.

Hi new neighbor. Swing by for a spot of tea before you give up on the new digs. I stopped by yesterday but you must have been out.

 

[DeletedUser1067]

Were the tournament catering costs affected by the move? I was moved, and the costs to cater the tournament from my new position seem to be much higher than the last tournament, and much higher than my similar city on us-1. I'm wondering if anybody else who moved is noticing this as well.

 

[DeletedUser1095]

Hi new neighbor. Swing by for a spot of tea before you give up on the new digs.

Oh, this new neighbourhood is quite fine! It was being left behind in the old wasteland that I was moaning about in that previous post. 8]

 

[DeletedUser651]

So you say as long as you get the same benefits out of it while being in a total goldmine desert, you would still choose that over a lively neighborhood?

Seriously?

You didn't understand me. You are thinking inside the current paradigm. I am not. I am thinking of different situation altogether that doesn't work the way it does now. Bobbi came up with several ideas that would work. I've also seen lots of other suggestions that would work too. And if you did have a world map it wouldn't impact game play the way it does now.

Only cuz there are players who are not able to get the same benefits from the game as others nobody should get them? Then lets also take out all diamond buildings cuz not everyone has the money to pay them.

You are confusing the concept of equality of opportunity that I am speaking of with the concept of equality of outcome.

Absolutely no one should get any benefits that others cannot get from the outset. Everyone should start off playing the same game with the same opportunities in the game presented to them. Then if you want to purchase things that is up to you. You wouldn't want to play chess if one player got an extra queen sometimes. The game itself would be a bad game. So everyone who cares about chess flourishing should not want anyone to get an extra queen at the outset or the game itself will not flourish even if a rule like that would benefit one player.

The player movement is obviously a better solution than what they have currently, but it is not optimal as it will still lead to inequality of opportunity.

 

[DeletedUser1231]

This change of neighborhood is a very good thing.
The problem of neighborhood is known for months and one have just had a solution which will solve all these problems.
Certainly it is not completed and that will take weeks so that everybody is in an active district but for a player as me who is in the middle of a desert for more than a year it is unhoped-for.
I began the game on the béta 16 months ago and for more than a year I have only 2 active neighbors and about fifteen city "dead", the rest was only gold mine.
Then the fact that some players are disadvantaged for a few weeks because they were not moved yet is not for me a big problème.I who account it is that a solution is been found.
What the players wanted has not necessarily credit note of the neighbors but what they wanted it was to be able to trade, gained by some gold and materials by motivating and credit note of the people with whom to make the tournaments.
And well I confirm that with my moving I have all this.
I played for years on foe and the change neighborhood had never raised problem, nevertheless I had happened to fall on very bad voisinage.this made left the game and allows to avoid the dullness.

Thank you for this big advance on the game.

 

[DeletedUser]

This change of neighborhood is a very good thing.
The problem of neighborhood is known for months and one have just had a solution which will solve all these problems.
Certainly it is not completed and that will take weeks so that everybody is in an active district but for a player as me who is in the middle of a desert for more than a year it is unhoped-for.
I began the game on the béta 16 months ago and for more than a year I have only 2 active neighbors and about fifteen city "dead", the rest was only gold mine.
Then the fact that some players are disadvantaged for a few weeks because they were not moved yet is not for me a big problème.I who account it is that a solution is been found.
What the players wanted has not necessarily credit note of the neighbors but what they wanted it was to be able to trade, gained by some gold and materials by motivating and credit note of the people with whom to make the tournaments.
And well I confirm that with my moving I have all this.
I played for years on foe and the change neighborhood had never raised problem, nevertheless I had happened to fall on very bad voisinage.this made left the game and allows to avoid the dullness.

Thank you for this big advance on the game.

Same as that Benroq, I probably had a couple more active cities than you, but the rest you describe is the same.
I can't believe there are still peeps moaning about the move, whether they have or haven't yet.
Here are some real things to moan and complain about since the move:

1: Too many neighbours, takes ages to polish them all.
2: Too many pages of trades on the market, just inundated with things I need.
3: When polishing, having to come back home 3-4 times to use up some coin on the market to make room for more coins before I go back to polishing.
4: Not having enough room for culture buildings for everyone to polish.
5: Having to put on sunglasses because of the glare from the 170% bonus icon.

Please Inno don't fix this

 

[DeletedUser]

#Rinaer

I'm glad you're pleased with your results. But are you intentionally misinterpreting the dissenting opinion here? It's not that some people - like you - won't be pleased. It's that not everyone will see these same pleasing results.

 

[DeletedUser]

There will be winners and losers, we can't all be surrounded as the world is built in rings, therefore some peeps will be on the edge, but no doubt they will be better off than they are now living in the middle of virtual deserts.
As it says on the tin, this is a 'Fantasy city building game' so I would suggest peeps just play it for what it was intended for and stop looking for a perfect world which suits everyone. If they could (Inno devs) then that would truly be magic and something that has never happened before in human history.

 

[DeletedUser1247]

very true since nearly every active was moved from my hood im the only one working the tournament another side effect from moving alot but leaving 1 or 2 is there is nobody to trade with, and if you cant trade its game over. maybe expanding the trade area for lone wolfs that haven't been moved

 

[DeletedUser651]

There will be winners and losers

Why is that good for the game?

 

[DeletedUser1345]

Surplus coins are not a problem, just get another KP. If you do this when your coins are near overflow, what does it matter how high the cost goes up? Sometimes after spending a big chunk of coin scouting or placing a researched expansion, I may visit all of my neighbors. The rest of the time, I just check my notifications for those who aided me, and return the favor. I feel like I was better off with all the gold mines, but I will make the best of the situation, and appreciate the fact that I get polished more often, and my main hall usually has a huge chunk for the taking, anytime I want it.

 

[DeletedUser1711]

Why is that good for the game?

What would be a way where there is no luck involved?
From how I see it, it's hardly doable to eliminate "luck-factors" from this game. Hell, your initial placing is based on chance - and it's no different from how people get placed during this "Player Move". And there is more stuff in this game that depends on "luck" besides this.
But that's actually the thing: Everything depends on luck - some things more, some things less. Yes, there are people who get luckier than others, but in general everyone gets an equal amount of luck. Translated to this game:

Some people get better placement considering trading partners, some have more luck with active neighbors who come around to polish, and again others have luck with neighbors who are active in the tournaments.
Yes, there will be dead spaces, but I remenber some official saying that those are distributed evenly on the map.

To me this all sounds very much like everyone get's about the same thing out of it with a bit of standard deviation. And I honestly see no issue with that.

 

[DeletedUser]

There are plenty of social games where minimal luck factors are involved - so it's not impossible to do, it's just not what Inno's deciding to do. Which isn't how the Wiki introduced Elvenar.

The initial luck of world placement turned out to be a disaster. What's troublesome is that, rather than remove the element of luck, they continue to increase elements of the game that are considerably affected by luck. Like you alluded to - Rune Shards, events...

Statistics don't support the notion that "in general everyone gets an equal amount of luck" when related to a small subset like this game. So, I don't disagree with your right to say that you personally don't mind playing a game of chance - I just disagree with your notion that those of us who don't like it are somehow incorrect. Those of us who don't enjoy this element of the game have been hoping that the "correction" of the world map would include correcting the placement imbalance.

 

[DeletedUser1513]

There are plenty of social games where minimal luck factors are involved - so it's not impossible to do, it's just not what Inno's deciding to do. Which isn't how the Wiki introduced Elvenar.

Luck factor is one thing.
But the benefith of those who have moved is tremendous.
People were complaining that building wonders cost a few relics of their boost.
Now the difference between active hood and a non-moved hood is probably around 20 relics for people that are really having the steel boost that's a terrible diffence!
This difference is already terrible, and then I'm not talking about all the other beenfits they have.
For People that have moved It's hard to find buildings to aid. For others you always see plenty of them.
It shouldn't have taken this long before everyone got moved.
They should just have postponed teh tournament to keep the game fair for everyone.
But fairness is a word that INNO doesn't understand, that you can see in all their games... (And most in forge of empires)

 

[DeletedUser]

Why is that good for the game?

I never said it was good, just a fact and unavoidable.

There are plenty of social games where minimal luck factors are involved - so it's not impossible to do, it's just not what Inno's deciding to do.

Then I'm willing to listen to your solution how everyone can be in the middle of a neighbour hood when the world is built in rings, or squares, triangles, octagons..................etc etc????

 

[DeletedUser762]

so I don't understand, why haven't I been moved anywhere still the same old rubbish around me, just 2 active players

 

[DeletedUser]

Then I'm willing to listen to your solution how everyone can be in the middle of a neighbour hood when the world is built in rings, or squares, triangles, octagons..................etc etc????

Thank you! And of course you know the answer - we can't. Which is why the importance of map placement should be negated. We could have more-equitable benefits without relying so heavily on random luck of neighborhood placement.

• For Trading have a search algorithm. Show trades from x number of the nearest Level VIII players, y number of Level VI - VII players, etc. This way everyone has equivalent number and calibre of trading partners. With this kind of algorithm, some boost factors could be included, so players would be more likely to see trades they need.
• For NH, allow x number of visits per Research level, regardless of "discovered":status, and regardless of distance. Lots more fun! We could wander around anywhere on the map, find other players who reciprocated visits, and enjoy better culture bonus results. This feature would be great, coupled with the "visit" button in notifications.
• For Tournaments - this would be so much better as a Fellowship event. (not to mention that, once there's increased access to trading, fellowship formation will be weaker). Tournament goals with fellowship friends would be a great draw, and increased fun. Rewards could be distributed to fellowship members based on group performance. Lots of esprit de corps!

None of this if difficult to conceive, and nor overly difficult to implement. The problem is with the devs stodgy mindset, where they're behaving as though their neighborhood concept is an inerrant doctrine - rather than the molded leftovers belonging in the trash!