SoggyShorts
Well-Known Member
Really? I thought the further out you go the more level 2 and 3 enemies you face.... Like I said though, I'm a lazy caterer so I'm not sure
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[Discussion] Behind the Scenes: Battle Redesign
- Thread starter Muf-Muf
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DeletedUser1657
Guest
Possible, I haven't paid attention to that. I am a lazy auto-fighter
in tournamentsDeletedUser736
Guest
Exactly what I would have replied. And I could not test it, because I had access to only the first province (due to thoses timers.) It's very very rare actually I can make it to 6 stars. But Mykan is a little bit incorrect. It does get slightly more difficult. Usually in the first province, you have say... Thief 1, but in the next province, it upgrades to thief 2. But I expect that would still be doable. And keep in mind than 75% losses was on 1 fight out of 8. Terrain was at my disadvantage, and I might have made tactical mistakes. As I said, I had roughly 50% losses on average. Sometimes more, but when the terrain was with me, it got lower than 50%.
When they introduced the tournament first, I remeber telling my fellowship to grab as ore reward as they could because they would surely realize someday that tournament pays too much. I guess this is it, the party is over. Seriously, the amount of KP for example we still can get from the first rounds is just insane.
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CrazyWizard
Well-Known Member
It's not about the losses, I dont care if every fight is won with 1 man standning, I am overwhelmed in troops right now.
The barracks is now a sort of, press here drop units there building. it spits out units faster than I can kill them.
It's about being able to win fights, preferrably in a timely fashion, it literally takes ages now to combat trough a province once your past the 3rd round (up to 3rd autocombat works just fine)
There are plenty of people who can't spend 6-7 hours a day to combat. and honoustly it really feels like a burden to combat for long times, I often take breaks in between since it's such a pain.
The barracks is now a sort of, press here drop units there building. it spits out units faster than I can kill them.
It's about being able to win fights, preferrably in a timely fashion, it literally takes ages now to combat trough a province once your past the 3rd round (up to 3rd autocombat works just fine)
There are plenty of people who can't spend 6-7 hours a day to combat. and honoustly it really feels like a burden to combat for long times, I often take breaks in between since it's such a pain.
DeletedUser736
Guest
I think that is exactly what they aimed for. trough exploration on the main map, I gain 8 kp and 8 relics every 3 days. With auto combat in the tournament, I can earn much more. So if they felt the need to stop me on the main map, you can easily figure out they want to stop me in the tournament too.
DeletedUser651
Guest
Now THAT is a good reason why they messed with the wholesaler.
DeletedUser1345
Guest
I am disappointed for a great many reasons. These are what go beyond and lead towards me being upset.
Each tournament tends towards use of a certain unit type. Marble tournament had cannoners, knights, swamp monsters and archers. This lends towards use of mage units. Steel tournament lends towards use of light ranged as orc generals, knights, thornrose and thieves were faced. Planks will lend toward heavy ranged. Human players do not have mortar III units to use.
It beggars belief that when this battle system was introduced, that the first focus was not towards giving human players their balancing heavy ranged unit. It seems idiotic that it takes two weeks to gain the unit, and two weeks added for each of the upgrades for that unit.
Because battles take so long ( like chopping down a tree with a toothpick ) autofight gets used with the dominant unit being used. With a listing made of each province type now being listed, in no case is the light melee unit the unit of choice. You know, the one that the bulwark keeps producing. I am not saying that light melee unit does not get used. I am saying it is set up to be used the least of all the unit types. Like the deal with the wholesaler changes and the blooming trader. Players invest KP into a wonder ( KP that should go elsewhere ) and then that wonder is devalued. It seems like you keep trying to punish player progress yet again. At some point the developers have to come to terms with the advancement of the players.
How are the mountain halls going to be ruined in the future? The prosperity tower, the martial monestery? It is hard to imagine that it is not coming.
This is the relationship with the players that the developers are fostering.
That is disturbing to say the least.
Each tournament tends towards use of a certain unit type. Marble tournament had cannoners, knights, swamp monsters and archers. This lends towards use of mage units. Steel tournament lends towards use of light ranged as orc generals, knights, thornrose and thieves were faced. Planks will lend toward heavy ranged. Human players do not have mortar III units to use.
It beggars belief that when this battle system was introduced, that the first focus was not towards giving human players their balancing heavy ranged unit. It seems idiotic that it takes two weeks to gain the unit, and two weeks added for each of the upgrades for that unit.
Because battles take so long ( like chopping down a tree with a toothpick ) autofight gets used with the dominant unit being used. With a listing made of each province type now being listed, in no case is the light melee unit the unit of choice. You know, the one that the bulwark keeps producing. I am not saying that light melee unit does not get used. I am saying it is set up to be used the least of all the unit types. Like the deal with the wholesaler changes and the blooming trader. Players invest KP into a wonder ( KP that should go elsewhere ) and then that wonder is devalued. It seems like you keep trying to punish player progress yet again. At some point the developers have to come to terms with the advancement of the players.
How are the mountain halls going to be ruined in the future? The prosperity tower, the martial monestery? It is hard to imagine that it is not coming.
This is the relationship with the players that the developers are fostering.
That is disturbing to say the least.
DeletedUser736
Guest
Question for the dev. Marindor, if you are still watching this thread. Why does it take twice as much time to train the dogs, compared to other troops? They do not seem more powerful than other light melee, but my mercenary camp, that is not upgraded because I am still in the orc chapter, is spewing unit twice as fast as my fully upgraded training ground.
Actually, there was a week I used almost only dogs, which are light melee, and it worked wonders. That was after the first update, but before they forced me to build the training ground. Can't remember which tournament it was. But I will grant you one thing, each tournament kind of wants you to use 5 units of the same type. Depending on initiative, sometimes mix can work, but most of the time, the best strategy is to pick 5 of the same type and begin by destroying what thoses 5 units are weak against, then mop up the rest.
Actually, there was a week I used almost only dogs, which are light melee, and it worked wonders. That was after the first update, but before they forced me to build the training ground. Can't remember which tournament it was. But I will grant you one thing, each tournament kind of wants you to use 5 units of the same type. Depending on initiative, sometimes mix can work, but most of the time, the best strategy is to pick 5 of the same type and begin by destroying what thoses 5 units are weak against, then mop up the rest.
DeletedUser651
Guest
I don't know if anyone cares, but on the US server, a lot of players I know are miserable. Every day I get requests to join another protest over the battle issue. People are so unhappy that they can't win battles any more. I am losing players faster than I can grab them. Two whole thriving fellowships are considering merging because they have both lost more than half their members. Heck, if they do merge, they won't even be full.
All any of us are doing is negotiating as fast as our little scouts will go. Just waiting for the next hammer to come down on our heads. The mood is not good.
Can't you ratchet down the difficulty? Make our troops stronger or something?
It is with a heavy heart that I say goodbye to our dear Madzix, who could not take it one more minute. Goodbye dear friend. You will be missed.
All any of us are doing is negotiating as fast as our little scouts will go. Just waiting for the next hammer to come down on our heads. The mood is not good.
Can't you ratchet down the difficulty? Make our troops stronger or something?
It is with a heavy heart that I say goodbye to our dear Madzix, who could not take it one more minute. Goodbye dear friend. You will be missed.
ophion
Well-Known Member
Losing Fellowship members over fighting issues is heartbreaking as well as being totally ridiculous in a game where fighting wasn't supposed to be more than a passing mention in Elvenar. Over time, fighting has become the major issue of the day and takes up more space in the forum than any other issues. How did we get to this??? When most of us joined Elvenar...we did so with a sigh of relief having found a game we could play without fighting being a major component as we were sick of having our buildings plundered etc from having played Forge of Empires and similar games that rely on battles. Although we still don't have these issues (as yet) battling still takes priority in updates and I'm personally getting sick and tired of hearing about it and having to go back over the tech tree to complete Cerberus Promotions, Advanced Training Grounds and constant Squad size upgrades which have no interest for me yet make me spend time and knowledge points on completing them.
For heavens sake give it a break and let's get back to a nice quiet city building game before we all decide we've had enough and go blow our brains out in the next game of warfare.
For heavens sake give it a break and let's get back to a nice quiet city building game before we all decide we've had enough and go blow our brains out in the next game of warfare.
DeletedUser118
Guest
Easy, you're playing a game designed by Innogames. Just look at all the other games done by them. What are they based on?
DeletedUser118
Guest
They are doing what they are best at: creating warefare and nice looking art designs. Too bad they still haven't found anybody who's able to do some good quality management and working with custormers.
Btw is it just me or is neither the start page nor the game itself available right now? I'm recieving an error message when I try to open the Elvenar page.
Btw is it just me or is neither the start page nor the game itself available right now? I'm recieving an error message when I try to open the Elvenar page.
DeletedUser1163
Guest
Thank you Marindor. I will take your advice and be patient. The game unfortunately has lost some of its excitement for me because of this new battle system.
DeletedUser736
Guest
One other advice after playing this week tournament, if you are still watching this thread Marindor. Game balance seems to be a big issue with this battle redesign and it pains me to see a few flaws that I consider major. One of the worst offenders are the new units. Simply put, I understand that the dev. need to put "stuff" to develop in the tech tree, but unit promotions are the worst thing ever implemented in this game, on this battle redesign. In fact, that was the problem with the previous system, but now it's even more acute.
See, units are pretty fairly matched at an equivalent level. So while the first units we earn when we begin playing are level 3, new stuff is level one, in case of my fairies, or mortars who are level 2. Thoses new units, until they reach level 3 (which can be in a very long time, in fact) are completely useless. There is absolutely no reason for me to pick a blossom mage over my old priest. Not a single redeeming quality. Worse, with this redesign, human get the short end of the stick because as of yet, we don't even have a level 3 heavy ranged, which is a huge disadvantage over an elf player since we lack one of the tip of the pentagram.
I think if the dev. really want to introduce new units, the badly need to rethink the "level up" system, or at the very least, introduce the units already on par with what i already accessible. It makes no sense whatsoever to release a level 1 unit that will be made battle worthy in 1 or more years after seeing two new guest race and their upgrades.
See, units are pretty fairly matched at an equivalent level. So while the first units we earn when we begin playing are level 3, new stuff is level one, in case of my fairies, or mortars who are level 2. Thoses new units, until they reach level 3 (which can be in a very long time, in fact) are completely useless. There is absolutely no reason for me to pick a blossom mage over my old priest. Not a single redeeming quality. Worse, with this redesign, human get the short end of the stick because as of yet, we don't even have a level 3 heavy ranged, which is a huge disadvantage over an elf player since we lack one of the tip of the pentagram.
I think if the dev. really want to introduce new units, the badly need to rethink the "level up" system, or at the very least, introduce the units already on par with what i already accessible. It makes no sense whatsoever to release a level 1 unit that will be made battle worthy in 1 or more years after seeing two new guest race and their upgrades.
Heymrdiedier
Well-Known Member
im with galoyal with this, i dont get it either why these upgrades havent been released in the research tree yet? The units allready exist, since the enemy allready uses upgrade versions, the research upgrades are actually allready in the raw data ive been told. So why not release it.
Why stretch this pain of getting used to new combat over such a long time, when its allready ready, and 1.17 is supposed to be part 3 of 3 in terms of combatupdate.
Do you want us all to stop playin for 3 months and then come back (unless we find a better game and dont want to come back).
In my opnion, just release the available unit upgrades allready.
Why stretch this pain of getting used to new combat over such a long time, when its allready ready, and 1.17 is supposed to be part 3 of 3 in terms of combatupdate.
Do you want us all to stop playin for 3 months and then come back (unless we find a better game and dont want to come back).
In my opnion, just release the available unit upgrades allready.
DeletedUser736
Guest
I am glad to see I am not the only one to think it makes no sense at all to release units that are not upgraded.
DeletedUser651
Guest
I read something in another forum that points to how far off the balance is in this game now. Players are being told by every dev apologist not to scout, not to expand, don't go out and get more neighbors, if you need to gain relics only get them from tournaments. It is to the point that players are actually feeling bad about playing the game. They are tied in knots. The goals of all this game are now at odds with the goals of trying "not to get too far ahead". Look how many time this poor players uses the word fault and greedy and other such deprecating terms for the crime of playing this game. I think that points to a large imbalance in the current game. If the players are now being incentivized to NOT play, that is a problem in my opinion.
Here is the post. All this poor player wanted was those Halloween contest buildings:
Here is the post. All this poor player wanted was those Halloween contest buildings:
DeletedUser736
Guest
It is all true Bobby, but I am trying to stay on the battle only aspect of the game in this thread, which, in itself is deeply flawed regarding the new units. In a nutshell, no reason whatsoever to build the new units until you can have them at level 3.
I stand at a point where I put most of my KP in wonders and I don't feel anymore like moving forward in the tech tree. Heck, I'm still in the orcs. Squad upgrades serve 0 purpose, new units too, so bang, half of the tech tree is useless to me.
Worse, if I stop moving forward in the tech tree, I get further ahead on the map making the whole tech tree even more useless. I'm not excited anymore about having new units to toy with, since they are going to suck compared to the ones I already have. I'm not excited about the squad size upgrade since it's useless in the tournament, which is where I fight all my battles. Heck, some of the units don't have their upgrades available yet in the wood elves chapter. So that mean they are useless for months to come. Why build them?
And while I am at it, strictly battle speaking, Inno, you really screwed that so called balance you wanted to introduce. As a human player, I don't have a heavy ranged unit grade 3. and the plank tournament, which is my boosted good, was heavy on light and ranged units. Elves had a massive advantage in this tournament. Why am I being punish for picking humans when I started the game?
I stand at a point where I put most of my KP in wonders and I don't feel anymore like moving forward in the tech tree. Heck, I'm still in the orcs. Squad upgrades serve 0 purpose, new units too, so bang, half of the tech tree is useless to me.
Worse, if I stop moving forward in the tech tree, I get further ahead on the map making the whole tech tree even more useless. I'm not excited anymore about having new units to toy with, since they are going to suck compared to the ones I already have. I'm not excited about the squad size upgrade since it's useless in the tournament, which is where I fight all my battles. Heck, some of the units don't have their upgrades available yet in the wood elves chapter. So that mean they are useless for months to come. Why build them?
And while I am at it, strictly battle speaking, Inno, you really screwed that so called balance you wanted to introduce. As a human player, I don't have a heavy ranged unit grade 3. and the plank tournament, which is my boosted good, was heavy on light and ranged units. Elves had a massive advantage in this tournament. Why am I being punish for picking humans when I started the game?