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[Discussion] Behind the Scenes: Battle Redesign

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
ugh, the rotating quests. They are one of the worst parts of the game.
Does it really make sense that you can get more supplies by cycling through the quests with level 1 workshops than you can with max level workshops?
Every time I bring it up though, I get shot down by people who apparently like using this system, and somehow see no room for improvement.

EDIT: I should mention that while what other players do shouldn't effect me, it DOES because if many top players are doing it then the developers will tend to balance the game around it, making it unbalanced for those who don't want to cycle through 20 quests 9 times every 3 hours
 

DeletedUser1721

Guest
I don't mind the rotating quests, because they do give you the option of getting goods you're short on. What I mind are the rotating quests which encourage players to scout scout scout fight fight fight, combined with teh devs saying oh you should know not to do that.

There is no reason why, when there AREN'T any steel provinces within the range of my steel city's location, after you conquer the provinces needed to unlock chapter 2, a chapter 2 rotating quest should be telling me to get 5 steel relics and conquer 5 encounters. That is guaranteed to push me to fight into ring 4, when according to the devs I shouldn't even be fighting in ring 3 yet. And yet it's impossible. That's very badly balanced.
 

DeletedUser651

Guest
If you keep looking at all the things they are going to have to change to get the stupid new "too far" concept in balance, then the whole game needs to be changed. Or they could just change this stupid new "too far" concept. Otherwise, you have to change the magic academy so it doesn't run on relics, since people often scout to get them, you have to change all the quests, you have to stop having any contests or change all the quests in the contest, you have to change how the world map works since often people scout to find neighbors, you have to change the trader because it isn't fair to charge extra for far away trades if you aren't allowed to go far away, you have to stop selling ways to speed up the scouts, and probably a whole bunch of other things I am not thinking about. It is crazy illogical for a game to be at odds with itself like this.

Or they just drop this "too far" thing. And besides, just how tiny a city are they expecting? As Allan said, if you can't build a city in a city builder then the game is done. Who wants to put the woodelves buildings in the tiny dwarf space? They can't even sell culture buildings if people don't have space to put them in. They can't sell contest things if no one has space to put any of the buildings they win.

And why are the people who are buying expansions all ok to go to "too far" but the rest of the people aren't? They keep pretending it isn't about selling expansions, then you shouldn't be able to buy expansions at all because according to the devs you are doing a bad thing by expanding your city. None of it makes sense.

Frankly, I hate the rotating quests, but we need them to keep the cities going. I'd much rather they just drastically increase the amount of supplies you get from workshops. We were supposed to get tons of supplies from doing neighborly help. That is how the game was designed. Only, they didn't realize that most people would quit so fast and the world map would often be a ghost town. You can't take away the rotating quests until you fix that problem which is why people are using the quests in the first place. Plus, the game is so slow in the beginning, without that extra boost from quests, you'd sit there for days waiting to have something to do.
 
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SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
We were supposed to get tons of supplies from doing neighborly help.
I really thought player movement would fix this.
Why the hell was there only 1 move?
They have the plan, they tested it, it worked, then they abandoned it?
I know you ended up in a weird place Bobbykitty, but we know that was part of the plan too heeheheh
 

DeletedUser651

Guest
I watched that video on facebook and I was just screaming at the screen. lol They kept saying that you should scout in even circles and not go too far in any one direction. Yeah right! Out of 300 scouted provinces and however huge that circle of neighboring cities is around me, maybe one of them has a neighbor that actually plays. That's why people go in weird directions. To find life!

And then when he talked about, you don't have to fight, you can always negotiate. Right! Did no one tell him about the orc limitation and the inability to negotiate? I know they did. I saw the comments under the video. But that girl was reading the comments, so maybe he never saw them. Still, you'd think he would know how the game works now. And again....people are out that far trying to find any signs of life on the world map. It is really tough when they put some new thing in place that relies on something that hasn't happened yet. So yeah, maybe in the future the world map will be fixed and maybe then people can scout more evenly, but that doesn't help people now. :(

Yeah. My light shines too bright to be put in the middle. :) If I had actual neighbors or cities with coins in them.....I can see why they need to stop me! giggles. But the few folks who ARE near me? I wonder what their crime was.
 

DeletedUser736

Guest
Okay, back to the battle topic. I do not know how to take screen shot, I'm a computer idiot, but recently I went very very far to grab as much boosted goods provinces before they put a ban on negotiating too (we all know it's coming)

I had a province unlocked tonight after 4 days and 6 hours. Yeah. That's very very very far.

First I'd like to adress the fact someone stated it cost too much to negotiate. I was able to pay the cost for that province easy peasy. Perhaps you do not have enough production building???

Of course, I've never been on this ring before, so I was curious to check the battle. I had squad size 9xx and enemy was 8xxx. I can't remeber the number exactly, but basically, enemy squad size was almost 10 times my squad size. So nothing actually became better LOL.

But quite frankly, I don't care anymore. I like fighting and I get my "fix" in the tournament. I just negotiate the province. It's almost like nothing has changed for me.
 

Dony

King of Bugs
So nothing actually became better LOL.
Nothing will be better for you, because you decided to do so, and didnt listened devs. You said that you will scout as far away as possible as fast as possible before they block you. I for once listened and have stopped scouting the day they announced it, and now on the map are fights easy peasy for me, tho i have only 310 scouted provinces where enemy squad size is 1539 (in 5v5 scenario) and mine is already 1311.
 

DeletedUser1741

Guest
Few words about battle system from general point of view.
Our battle system is combination of pentagram system
upload_2016-11-7_15-15-54.png
and pentagon system

I don't think, that ancient chines people were fool. So, about chines pentagram
Please, attention on red arrows.
Or variant in russian
here blue arrows are representing killing actions.
Pentagram is sacral sign, sense of which is connecting with life and death. Pentagon isn't.
Opponent elements are placed on different sides of pentagram.
So, our battle system
must be based on pentagram with rule
"LONGER ARROW - HARDER STRIKE".
But now we have approximately next
so system of battle is disbalanced(((
Our heavy melee units have not enough bonuses against light melee units(((
So enemy with light melee units is very hard for us.

Our heavy melee units must have much stronger bonuses against light melee units!!!
 

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DeletedUser1721

Guest
Nothing will be better for you, because you decided to do so, and didnt listened devs. You said that you will scout as far away as possible as fast as possible before they block you. I for once listened and have stopped scouting the day they announced it, and now on the map are fights easy peasy for me, tho i have only 310 scouted provinces where enemy squad size is 1539 (in 5v5 scenario) and mine is already 1311.
Technically, they're also listening to the devs. By completing encounters to get relics (you couldn't get enough for the quest from tournaments, not fast enough anyway), completing quests which tell you to complete provinces and encounters, and unlocking province expansions to place those ridiculously oversized new military buildings, they're absolutely playing the way the devs want you to play.

There is simply not enough room in my beta city to build the training grounds, and my beta city has the bare minimum of residences and manufactories that I could get away with without waiting ages after a research is unlocked to produce the goods for it! This forces me to try to negotiate out past the radius of where I can fight, simply to unlock another expansion to place their new required building on. I've been saying for a while that they need to add another row of space to the default map, not because of a new guest race, but because they've added so many new buildings to earlier chapters that they need to add completely new city expansions early on in the game and these need to be in addition to the expansions which are added to make room for new guest race buildings. Magic Academy, Training Grounds (and residences to give the Training Grounds population), three acts of Ancient Wonders? Which they've scaled the combat system assuming you have, but which there is not sufficient room for on the map?

A good f2p game is a game that allows any f2p players to compete with the p2p players, because the p2p players wouldn't buy items to get ahead if they didn't see it as a competition. A city with a training grounds and Magic Academy is effectively forced to buy diamonds to upgrade anything. I would say that this is not a good f2p move. Players should have the space so that f2p players can have the minimum space needed to have all their required buildings at maximum level. P2p players then buy culture buildings and space to exceed that.

When I planned, on Elven Architect, what my main city on us4 would look like on the wood elves level... there was room for the mercenary camp, but not the training grounds. The residences needed to support the population for thirteen workshops, four magic dust manufactories, four scrolls manufactories, six planks manufactories, two armories, a barracks, and the main hall, and the mercenary camp, take so much space that even with venar's rocks 1 from chapter 5 and a golden abyss at level 4 (probably 5 or 6 by the time I get there) most of the map is taken up by residences. This is not one of the cities that people talk about as being too full of manufactories for ranking points, and yet I still don't have the room for it! And this city also doesn't have a Magic Academy, because the supply of relics since they released the new battle system is far too low to ever support having the Magic Academy again. I didn't think it was worth it before, but now it's absolutely useless, so that's another 25 spaces that I have that anyone else doesn't have, and as soon as their relics run out, they won't be able to continue using its magic. Also I have bought diamonds for premium expansions for this city! With every premium expansion filled in, I would still not have enough room!

And that's also without building the Spires of the Tempest, which I had been aggressively pursuing shards for but now that I have it, will probably not build it. The changes to the battle system are simply too harsh for me to want to take the time to relearn it, based on my experiences in beta.
 
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DeletedUser736

Guest
Tone does'nt really carry trough in written messages, but to be clear : I don't mind that I cannot battle on the main map anymore. I have much more to gain from continuing to explore than to stop. Negotiation cost are not even close to put a dent on my stash of good. I realize by reading the post above mine that I might have an advantage in that regard. I have 3 manufactories of each of mu boosted goods (6 for plank if you bother to check, but 3 of them are so low level I don't really count them. They are there for the "upgrade a building " quests in event. I realize peoples tend to want more of them. But I don't need more, because actually, my work allows me to use 3 hours production cycle all day long, which in the end means I end up with more goods than I really need. When I drop as low as 200k in a good, I consider myself "poor"

I really fail to see why I would actually wait so I can fight again, since I can easily pay. I love the new battle systems. It still has flaws, but as it is, it's fun, and I can play it every week in the tournament as much as I want to.

No, I don't really expect things to get better on the main map for me. It matters not. I get the extensions I need, I get the relics I need, and I get all the fights I want, and even more from the tournament. I see no point in "listening" when they say I am too far. My city can afford the "cost" of being too far.
 

DeletedUser1721

Guest
"Research Advanced Steel Manufactories" "......k"
"Collect 5 Steel Relics" "......... but there aren't any steel provinces in ring 3 and the devs say I'm not allowed to move on to ring 4 yet" "don't care, you just entered chapter 2 and need to get steel relics you can't decline this quest"

Why.
 

DeletedUser736

Guest
Something that has been bothering me and since it's related to the redesign. I really hate the upgeaded training grounds. they are still twice as slow as the mercenary camp, and my mercenary cam is not even upgraded yet. But what anoys me the most? It now looks like an archery range but it's a spot where I train dogs... I know, it's just cosmetic, but it kind of look ridiculous.
 

DeletedUser1345

Guest
Is there a new development in the tournaments? I am facing larger squad sizes in the first round of the tournament. I understand that there will be losses, but my units are getting massacred in the second tournament, first round.
Me squad size 36.
Them: 43 hellhound - 7 cannaner - 11 enchantress - 2 squads of steinling II
My treants take -8% damage from heavy ranged, not -80%.
Are players just not supposed to win at all anymore?
 

Deleted User - 60107

Guest
Tournaments are bugged - you are not facing the first round, you seem to be facing whatever round you reached last time. So if you had reached round 5 - you are now facing round 5 again.
 

Dony

King of Bugs

DeletedUser651

Guest
Tournaments are bugged - you are not facing the first round, you seem to be facing whatever round you reached last time. So if you had reached round 5 - you are now facing round 5 again.

Well that is better, I guess. But I should be able to win a round 5 battle. I am slaughtered. No chance at all.
 

Dony

King of Bugs
Well that is better, I guess. But I should be able to win a round 5 battle. I am slaughtered. No chance at all.
and what units are you using? since im doing round 5 here on beta with auto-combat and some of the fights are 15% loss only
 
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