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Discussion Winter Magic

Dony

King of Bugs
Big mistakes were made with the introduction of the changes to this event. Big mistakes were made in previous events as well.
Beta is not the time to try new things. Beta is the time to fix bugs.
with your attitude we would never had any event, tournament or spire in the game yet, because everything had some problems
they must release something and start colelcting data aswell, if players are crying how bad event is and then get 10-12 evolving buildings then it wasnt that bad after all
 

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
The message that the event is horrible is being ignored. Just as the first random quest event complaints were ignored when they first appeared. Everyone jumped on board trying to 'make it better' and they implemented the 'better' and kept the randomness while completely IGNORING that no one wanted it.. Players keep trying to tell them what will 'be better for live event' but it won't. The live game players won't like this any more than we will and the changes aren't going to 'make it better'.

The message that needs to be sent is that we don't like it AT ALL and we don't want to see it again. But as long as folks continue to provide 'changes that make it better' they take that as a sign that they can continue.

I have asked a question many posts back and that has been completely ignored. Others have said similar to me since I made my post and those have also been ignored.

I do think that if you can pass on the 'changes' you can also pass on the questions and get an answer. Stop trying to 'make this better'. Just as an FYI what is 'better' to some of you is NOT better to me. I don't ever want Pet Food as a 'for instance'. I do want relics BUT I ALSO WANT TO BE ABLE TO CHOOSE to want relics. Not some random choice that you really have NO CHOICE in. Pick and hope for the best. Take this event BACK to FOE. It's just not wanted in Elvenar.

I can assure you I won't be playing in live. Nothing about this is going to change my feelings. Go back to what was WANTED. Actually LISTEN to your players for once.
could you repeat those questions? cause honestly i have missed them aswell. And i think i've read everything. And i always try to help other players on forum by giving answers.
Or maybe i missed them because they werent really questions, but demands that are unlikely to happen? (like trash this event and go back to previous one)
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
@Dony How many players actualy get 10-12 evolving buildings in one event?
1? 5?
So because of them events should be ruined for the rest?
Someone has posted before how many players actualy had more than 1 evolving buildings (I think it was in the mermaid topic).

@Marindor I think that quests are too hard from the start for the reward they give. Too many break quest from the start (break quest = quests which players have to do over half day (especialy if you get them often) or even more than one day).

The whole random quest is flawed. If developers refuse to remove it completely, at least the can do a compromise - more non-random quests from the start, then they can jump to the random madness. By my opinion, if enough event currency for the first 5 artefacts can be won by non-random quests, that should be acceptable compromise. So players could get back to planning and actualy get the daily price they want.

I suggest that current 16 package system should be never used in future events again. It gets away almost any strategy to influence what we get from event. Either get back to the chest system or use some alternative which allows similar control over the rewards.

For the current event I suggest to alter the rewards available:
Replace the garbage small culture building with second daily reward, this way the probability to get the daily reward increases to more reasonable levels.
Relics rewards should be removed or at least adjusted their amount. Getting 1-3 relics won't help anyone, majority of the players doesn't need them at all. So if they remained, then adjusting amount to 50 should be fine for players who needs them (50 is not too much).
Spells - by my opinion PP & EE spells shoud be removed, you can get plenty of them in tourneys and EE is the most useless spell of all spells. The amount of MM spells should rise to 5-10 (remember the expired goods needs for Elvenar chapter).

Amount for time instants should rise - getting 1x1h instant is not a reward, but an insult. I suggest amounts like this:
14h: between 1 and 2.
8h: 2 - 4
5h: 3 - 5
2h: 5 - 10
1h: 10 - 20

Main price:
All evolving building have the same flaw. They are not worth building unless they are at lv 9-10 (with maybe exception of the phoenix and brown bear), and even at level 10 the worth is at least disputable for many of them.
My suggestion: Increase the population of all evolving building by at least by 50%.
Also if they produce goods, the production should be increased, and for late chapter consider also adding production of expired goods.
 

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
Main price:
All evolving building have the same flaw. They are not worth building unless they are at lv 9-10 (with maybe exception of the phoenix and brown bear), and even at level 10 the worth is at least disputable for many of them.
My suggestion: Increase the population of all evolving building by at least by 50%.
Also if they produce goods, the production should be increased, and for late chapter consider also adding production of expired goods.
Interesting suggestion:

You think making the population higher is sufficient? there's a wonder at the end of elvenar chapter that adds +xx% population to your residences. Won't these 'upgraded' evolutions buildings not be again trash then, when you got that wonder to max? Since the evolution buildings don't get the +Xx%

My personal tought: at one point inno decided the rewards they were giving were too powerfull. many event buildings rebalancing were the result of this. After that almost every reward felt underwhelming for many of us. I think those players (including me) wont ever be happy unless they bring the rewards back to those standards again. I have been going for timeboosts and Portal profit spells during almost a year a now because nothing else seems worth it. And now ofcourse many of us have too many of those, that that again is a problem. I dont know the solution, but it feels like they fix something balancing wise, and they end up introducting new balancing issues that way, and then they fix those again, and again new balancing issues. The question that arises after 10x fixes, was this really worth it? and is this still the same game we enjoyed?
 
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Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
@Heymrdiedier Well, the main prizes should at least give better population than regular buildings. By my opinion, their effect (goods, KPs, mana, seeds) should increase as well.
Nobody has that wonder yet. And it's the weakest from all three giving population (at least from my last calculation), but I'm going to build it anyway.

@Dony I thought that we were talking about past events not the current one in this case. Or do you think that with the current settings (everything nerfed), it is possible to get so many?
My whole reaction was about the developer's reaction to nerf rewards and make everything harder because few people got too much by their opinion.
 

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
@Heymrdiedier Well, the main prizes should at least give better population than regular buildings. By my opinion, their effect (goods, KPs, mana, seeds) should increase as well.
Nobody has that wonder yet. And it's the weakest from all three giving population (at least from my last calculation), but I'm going to build it anyway.


think they use some kind of points system in their rewards. population give xx points, culture yy points, goods/units zz points etc.
And when they add up all the points the number is higher then any other normal building in game. So from their perspective the reward should be great.
But just because its split over many things, we dont like it. Its worse then a pure population building, worse then a pure culture building, worse then a normal factory... etc. Thats the main reason i dont like these buildings.

Me personally i think i would only be triggered to spend diamonds on this event, if the building offers something unique that cant be gotten elsewhere (for now) unless in this event. this can be a high amount of population, or a high amount of goods production, or something completly different like the bears and phoenixes. The fact that most of these buildings just offer the same of what we allready have but in different amounts, make me say: meh ill just build the normal buildings and at least still get ranking points out of it plus i can decide if its efficient enough to place and keep in my city later on. If you spend money on an event building and it gets trivialised very fast by something else, then i wont be spending on it.
 

Maillie

Well-Known Member
This event could be an all-time winner if two things were changed:

1. Remove the boxes. Let us decide which prize we want. I get no joy in opening a box in my Chapter 15 city and finding marble relics. My smallest city might be thrilled and choose that one.

2. Make the daily prize something we earn, not something in a box that we have no control over getting.

Our choices could include artifacts for old evolving buildings. My small city wasn't brought back to life in time to play the Phoenix event. One of the Phoenix buildings came up in the Magic Academy, but there are no artifacts to evolve it.

We would feel as though we actually had something to work for if we had a choice, rather than requiring luck (which some of us don't have).
 

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
2. Make the daily prize something we earn, not something in a box that we have no control over getting.

Our choices could include artifacts for old evolving buildings. My small city wasn't brought back to life in time to play the Phoenix event. One of the Phoenix buildings came up in the Magic Academy, but there are no artifacts to evolve it.

We would feel as though we actually had something to work for if we had a choice, rather than requiring luck (which some of us don't have).
What about if we turn the prizes around? You earn the daily when you complete the houses. The normal main prizes (evolutions) are one of the prizes in the 18 chests. Not sure how to do the other extra evolution prizes then, like when you have 9 evolutions you get an extra building instead of evolution next. Maybe that can be done in crafting? (requiring x evolutions to craft an extra building, and the number can go up as you have more of those buildings allready)
 

Rinkidink

Guest
he's just asking to explain theses emotions so that they can improve what we don't like, not suppress the emotions :rolleyes:
He asked us not to use sarcasm and that's a way people have been expressing their emotions about the event. I also said in my post that some of the sarcasm has been very funny and it's a bit of light relief that we need; well I do! The sarcasm, which he's asked us not to use hasn't been vindictive or harmful, and I'll be very happy if it continues because I like to laugh and it reduces the stress of this event. As long as it's not hurtful to anyone I can't see a problem with it.

The post about the Gingerbread man being a horror character is hilarious and it's extremely sarcastic, while also being harmless. It took the edge of things for me and gave me a much needed laugh. :)

Also the event is so bad those responsible deserve some flack, and they deserve to know the truth; that we're collectively feeling angry and frustrated with it. Are our feelings going to be honestly passed onto them or not? The way the game makes us feel is important and sweeping our emotions under the carpet isn't useful to anyone. I haven't seen anything that's unacceptable to normal forum protocols; in fact people have been much more polite than I would be if I let rip.
 
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Maillie

Well-Known Member
What about if we turn the prizes around? You earn the daily when you complete the houses. The normal main prizes (evolutions) are one of the prizes in the 18 chests. Not sure how to do the other extra evolution prizes then, like when you have 9 evolutions you get an extra building instead of evolution next. Maybe that can be done in crafting? (requiring x evolutions to craft an extra building, and the number can go up as you have more of those buildings allready)
I'm not sure how that would be good for a daily prize. I'm on 11/20 on the first gingerbread house so far. I think I'd rather not have a daily require 20 bricks, which need 60 bows each. I believe that you can't craft an additional building if you already have one.
 

Jackluyt

Well-Known Member
Full marks to the designers for the new set of quests!
The set of quests they have produced this time is easy and extremely doable - so far I am on 64 with no gripe at all.
:)

But what is really sad about this event is that the prize system is really rotten - we have no control over gaining what we really need.
This is IMO the best quest set yet - and if they were to combine it next time with the rotating chests from the last event, the event would be close to perfect!!

You can see my quest list here is you like: https://tinyurl.com/uhe96xa
 

baypen

Member
Full marks to the designers for the new set of quests!
The set of quests they have produced this time is easy and extremely doable - so far I am on 64 with no gripe at all.
:)

But what is really sad about this event is that the prize system is really rotten - we have no control over gaining what we really need.
This is IMO the best quest set yet - and if they were to combine it next time with the rotating chests from the last event, the event would be close to perfect!!

You can see my quest list here is you like: https://tinyurl.com/uhe96xa
Good luck for you !
For me is not so nice, I´m working since days on repetitive Supply quests and now for 15 Vision Vapor already the second time - for 16 ribbons !!!!. So, no way for even 1 !!!! trial on the shuffle board ;-) I am in Chapter 5, the event is at the end not doable for me and as I see, also not for some others in our community. Some already stopped to play for this event, they ignore it in the meantime. Me too, because of no chance to earn enough ribbons for at least 1 trial per day on the shuffleboard. That has nothing to do with an event I would say :)
 

Jackluyt

Well-Known Member
Good luck for you !
For me is not so nice, I´m working since days on repetitive Supply quests and now for 15 Vision Vapor already the second time - for 16 ribbons !!!!

Some already stopped to play for this event, they ignore it in the meantime.
Sure I understand that.
But it is still IMO the best set of quests they have come up with so far - there are no glaringly impossible quests as was the case with most of the early events, where certain players either found progress physically impossible - or they were forced into over-scouting which they did not want to do, or to rip their cities to pieces to build lots of silly buildings that they would normally not have done.

For me, an event should supplement one's normal city building activity - it should not force one to destroy things already built, or do anything that does not fit in with one's normal game plan.

From that point of view, these quests are very reasonable.

However, the least said about the lottery for daily prizes, the better. We have been asked not to be rude!!
:) :)
 

Jaheira

Member
I feel being played instead of playing a game.
I've read somewhere that they "fixed" the repetitive quests? They sure did!! I don't get the same quest 3 time in a row. I got the same quest 3 times in the last 5 quests. So, I guess that's an improvement. They said that there is no specific level requirements in this event's main questline.... well, good luck producing the huge amounts of goods or tools with low-level ones. Mockery! Just stop doing that. We're not stupid.
I don't mind a demanding event, as long as the rewards meet the difficulty and as long as I am capable to choose my strategy through the event.
Saying that, I don't feel like giving any feedback or suggestions, cause I think it's pointless. They made it quite clear that this system is here to stay. So what if they lower the ribbon cost and increase the value of the "fillers"? It'remains just gamble. I don't like gambling. I like planning for my needs and making choices that fit my gameplay.
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
Apart from VV quests that force us to craft useless staff (especially when they are repeating too often) and strange logic of "produce goods" quests requiring much more T2/T3 than T1, I find quests far more acceptable then in previous events. Not talking about rewards, costs and the whole lottery thing, which is not welcomed in a strategy game.
 

Burger Meister Meister

Well-Known Member
with your attitude we would never had any event, tournament or spire in the game yet, because everything had some problems
they must release something and start colelcting data aswell, if players are crying how bad event is and then get 10-12 evolving buildings then it wasnt that bad after all
@Dony You completely missed the whole point of the message.

The remainder of the message which you omitted and I quote below...

"I fully understand that it is too late to make significant changes to improve it for this event but I have provided, what I as a programmer for 35 years, would consider reasonable changes in order make it playable on a Live world.

That being said, I would really like to talk to you at some point in time about how to communicate and comment on proposed changes BEFORE they ever make it as far as a Beta world. Do you have some sort of forum for discussing ideas that the game designers are considering that players can participate in BEFORE they ever make it into source code? "

States that I understand the position that @Marindor and the game developers are in and I am asking what can we do about it in the future to avoid this kind of mess again.
 

ExplorerFfff

Well-Known Member
If I'm still afraid that though you think up what you think, it will turn out just like last time ... it probably works similarly there o_O

The point is that it comes to me that the developers or those who "design" the game did not play anywhere without a dia, so when something is delayed by buying it and it does not realize what it actually invented for nonsense. However, you can see it on promo videos, there are dia in tens of thousands :)