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The orc requirement really needs attention

DeletedUser651

Guest
We understand that many advanced players are hitting a negotiation wall because those players have been scouting and conquering provinces happily before the update where Orcs are needed. This has been done to balance the game more. negotiating became too easy with the massive production bonuses players get from their factories because of all the relics gained in tournaments.

Oh please. We know you know better.

Negotiating should not become impossible. It has become impossible for players for two chapters. That is a problem. You know it, we know it.

This thread has been sitting there for a week so please don't act like we are being unreasonable and demanding an instant response.

Finally, I would have put all those quotes on one post, but that would have 1. Been a real pain in the neck and 2. would have made it too long so people wouldn't read it and 3. would have lost the entire point that so many people have reported similar problems. 4. And I did link to an entire thread where I gave you all a lot of feedback from the us server and that was totally ignored, so at least this got a response.

I asked people to give feedback regarding this new orc limitation on the US server. Here is the thread:

https://us.forum.elvenar.com/index....please-regarding-the-new-orc-limitation.3389/

:)

I had hoped against hope that you of all people would have tried to do something about this requirement hitting so early since I know you know it is a problem to hit so early. Sadly, instead, you went on the offensive and pretended like there isn't anything wrong and it is stupid to even bring it up since there are sooooooo many other things for players to do. I am very disappointed by this.
 
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DeletedUser629

Guest
gave you all a lot of feedback from the us server and that was totally ignored

We have no influence on what´s going on on the US server. US players who complain on their forum should be taken care of by the US Elvenar team.

I had hoped against hope that you of all people would have tried to do something about this requirement hitting so early since I know you know it is a problem to hit so early. Sadly, instead, you went on the offensive and pretended like there isn't anything wrong and it is stupid to even bring it up since there are sooooooo many other things for players to do. I am very disappointed by this.

I understand and recognize the problem people are facing, but my answer that it was done for balancing reasons was right. Also, i never said it was stupid to bring this up, nor am i here to question people´s intelligence.

From the previous thread about Orcs needed in provinces..

Thanks again for the feedback. So far we have seen that most players who're stuck due to the Orcs being needed to negotiate are because of having completed 222+ provinces already, and simply don't have more provinces that don't require Orcs left to complete. We have forwarded this already, but of course we will continue to collect feedback.

So we´re not dismissing this issue. Again, we understand your concern and will continue to collect all the feedback from players here on Beta.
 

DeletedUser651

Guest
So which is it? Do you want feedback or do you want us to keep feedback to our own servers? Because you said both things above.

If you only want feedback from beta players on this particular issue, you aren't going to get much. Most of the players here are long past having that requirement affect them.

We have no influence on what´s going on on the US server.

Again, give me a break. You know this is nonsense. Why are you saying such ridiculous things? OBVIOUSLY if you change the game on beta, it gets changed on the US server. Everything you DO on beta influences what is going on on the US server. EVERYTHING.

I'm done. You are just making absurd arguments. You want feedback from players, but only players who play on beta? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. You won't learn much from that. The players on beta are NOT representative of the players of Elvenar. The beta players are people who are much more avid gamers who like to test games by definition. The beta players can give you a lot of guidance, but you won't learn all there is to learn about most of your customers. If you close your ears to the rest of the servers' input, you are behaving like an ostrich with your head in the sand.

US players who complain on their forum should be taken care of by the US Elvenar team.

Never, not once, ever, has a change occurred on the US server unless the change happened on beta first. Never. Ever. Ever. So, please explain how the US Elvenar team is supposed to take care of those issues?

Collect and thrown into the largest dumpster :(

Ain't that the truth?

But seriously, how many players will stick around if they are stuck in dwarves needing something that won't happen for two more chapters?

I am at the point where I actually hope this idiocy causes Inno to lose a lot of money. That's the only way any of the will learn. Too bad they won't understand why they lost all those customers. Whatever.
 
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DeletedUser762

Guest
Let me clarify something here. We as Elvenar team do our best to help players and answer questions as often as possible. We do however have real life things to do so we cannot be around as often as we'd like.

Personally, i've had some things to attend this weekend, and with my 12 hour work shifts during the week, i can't be around as often as i used to be :)
Goryn, thanks for the reply. well, at least you have a fun job, unlike m:ewhat:o_O:confused::)
 

DeletedUser629

Guest
Never, not once, ever, has a change occurred on the US server unless the change happened on beta first. Never. Ever. Ever. So, please explain how the US Elvenar team is supposed to take care of those issues?

You complained about not being heard there, so my reply was simple. if you feel you are being ignored there, you need to take it up with them. I wasn't talking about influence game wise, but influence regarding how that team operates its forum. Every Elvenar team has a community manager and dedicated moderators to assist the players, and all the feedback gathered there will be forwarded to the developer team. Otherwise, what's the point of having these forums? They are just as important as we are.
 

DeletedUser651

Guest
You complained about not being heard there, so my reply was simple.

I said that posted that information HERE and it was ignored here. I collected the information there and gave it to you here, because here is where any change happens. Over there, they just get what happened here.

Every Elvenar team has a community manager and dedicated moderators to assist the players, and all the feedback gathered there will be forwarded to the developer team. Otherwise, what's the point of having these forums? They are just as important as we are.

Maybe you don't understand how the US forum works. They almost never say a word on the US server except to tell people not to double post or to answer a question about how something works. They have zero ability to assist any of the players who are stuck not being able to negotiate a province for two chapters. They ask for feedback and then stay completely silent. All the forums do there is provide a place where players chat with each other about issues with the game and it is a place where the mods can post announcements.

Here is the only place we might effect any change or at least get responses to issues. There, there, well, nothing has ever happened there.

We all ask ourselves all the time why there is a forum if no one ever bothers to give us feedback about what we have posted. We all gathered it was Inno's way of providing players a place to vent before they take all our feedback and dump it in the garbage.
 
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DeletedUser283

Guest
every flavour of server has its dedicated forum and dedicated team of ops and mods;
and it really does impact the way question/info/feedback on the forums are handled, answered too, and dealt with;
I remember a time when the .en forum for FoE was under tight control : every time someone did express some negative comment regarding whatever was inno-related, they had to face consequences : post deletion, remarks about uncorrect behaviour; there may even have been bans;
just for expressing dissatisfaction in terms that were not accepted by the local team (and those were mild terms most of the time, but... );
so what happens on a forum for these games is tightly related to the way the team handles it :)
so far the team here is nice, and they better be, because this is beta, and this is where s..t happens first and foremost

but I digress ;)

we were talking about orcs, orcs being required to negociate provinces from a point that has obviously been chosen by throwing some dice (I have been a role player and I know how stupid things may turn when you use dice to make a decision)

here I just wish to express my dissatisfaction when I discovered - while having not yet completed the squad size upgrade research at the beginning of the orcs chapter) that I could not negociate an encounter that I wanted to negociate, just because orcs were now required to do so;
and huge was my frustration, because I had to complete 2 more researches before getting to starting to research orc-breeding armouries;
and I was just one of those beta players who had reached the end of the fairy chapter a long time ago;
our cities were well organised, with some space on the side for a soon coming guest race, and our inventories were stuffed with goods for future researches - and the odd negociation, from time to time;

and BAM ! all of a sudden, I am denied the right to negociate;
everybody heard the devs in the latest episode of Innogames TV ?
"fighting will always be optional"
this is a lie, and damn lie for one;
because wherever you are in the tech tree, as long as you are not near ressearching orc-breeding armouries, you cannot negociate beyong ring 10 and fighting is your ONLY option;

I will stick to my original advice : the introduction of orcs as a good to pay for negociation must not be related to the ring of the province - which is arbitrary and inherently unfair, because every player advances at his/her own pace - but tied to the moment in the research tree when getting the opportunity to upgrade an armoury and turn it into an orc-breeding facility;
orcs should not be required for negociation as long as the "breeding grounds" research is not completed
you are able to change the looks of a city on the world map by checking that the newer squad size upgrade has been researched
you should be able to introduce orcs into the negociation process when and only when breeding grounds have been researched

I described above how I felt when I was denied the right to negociate, that moment when fighting was not anymore an option;
now I understand wholly how a player may feel when facing this while still in the dwarves chapter ...
 
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DeletedUser

Guest
Just to clarify - the US Forum no longer allows players to post threads about Beta releases, and have discussion about what this might mean for our play.

Since we can't discuss pre-releases, and we haven't seen post-live release modifications (ever?), the US Forum is rendered irrelevant for avid players. I'm guessing that Bobbykitty's re-postings herein (from the US) are a last-ditch effort to get a response. Which proved a correct attempt - even if unsatisfying - because you responded while they remained silent.

So, thank you for clarifying.
 

DeletedUser629

Guest
I said that posted that information HERE and it was ignored here. I collected the information there and gave it to you here, because here is where any change happens. Over there, they just get what happened here.

Again, we do not ignore players here, i have simply been very busy lately so i haven't been able to spend much time here.

Maybe you don't understand how the US forum works. They almost never say a word on the US server except to tell people not to double post or to answer a question about how something works. They have zero ability to assist any of the players who are stuck not being able to negotiate a province for two chapters. They ask for feedback and then stay completely silent. All the forums do there is provide a place where players chat with each other about issues with the game and it is a place where the mods can post announcements.

Here is the only place we might effect any change or at least get responses to issues. There, there, well, nothing has ever happened there.

We all ask ourselves all the time why there is a forum if no one ever bothers to give us feedback about what we have posted. We all gathered it was Inno's way of providing players a place to vent before they take all our feedback and dump it in the garbage.

I don't need to understand how the US forum works. It's their forum, and every team has its own way of running a forum. The Beta forum really isn't the place to vent any frustrations you have regarding another forum, in this case, the US forum, and from now on i will no longer allow it.

Just to clarify - the US Forum no longer allows players to post threads about Beta releases, and have discussion about what this might mean for our play.

I highly doubt that. Innogames releases an Inno TV every month with info about what's to come, and players on all forums are allowed to discuss it in the threads created for that exact purpose.

Again, i will no longer allow posts related to other forums because we have no influence on that, and i know every Elvenar team of every forum is doing their best to run it the best way possible.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
There's considerable difference between monthly pre-view and actual releases here in Beta - the devil being in the detail. And it's not exactly respectful to imply I'm lying, then close the topic. Especially since I'm not.
 

DeletedUser651

Guest
Oh for heaven's sake!! I only mentioned the US servers because you did Goryn! None of it matters! They do a fine job, they just have zero ability to get anything changed. It isn't as if a dev ever bothers to come chat with the players on the forums.

What matters is that the Orc requirement is ruining the game! It has caused many players to quit because they are hitting this stupid limitation too early. Players want to play a game, not sit and wait through 2 chapters before they can play again. I gave you lots of information from Elvenar players regarding how people feel about this. It makes no difference what server they play on. They are players.

YOU ARE THE ONE WHO SAID THAT IF THIS WAS STOPPING NEGOTIATIONS IT WOULD BE CHANGED.

YOU SAID THAT NEGOTIATING SHOULD NOT BE IMPOSSIBLE.
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE!!! So, if you now are backtracking, then JUST SAY SO! Stop running around the issue talking about anything else.

The consequences of this limitation are that many people have already quit after they have advanced cities. Those cities will languish forever on the world map and clog up the map even more. These folks have complained greatly about this limitation and players who were on the fence about staying have left too knowing this is about to hit them. Instead of selling anything, Inno has managed to simply get rid of potential customers. Those players who WERE here for months are now gone. They will never get to the fairy chapter and they will never buy a snail. They won't be here to buy any moon splinters. They won't buy anything from Elvenar ever again because they have quit. Those of us left behind have a worse game too because we have lost friends and we now have more dead cities around us.

Twist this and turn this into any discussion you want, but the bottom line hasn't changed. This requirement has STOPPED players from being able to negotiate provinces for two chapters!!! If you can't figure out why that is really bad, then you don't know much about how this game works.
 
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DeletedUser1345

Guest
Running up against an obstruction to negotiating happened to me before, but long before the orcs, or in fact, any guest race. It happened when I needed magical goods, but had yet to research magical goods factories. I had to fight what I could and wait to pay for the ones that I could not. I just needed to get further into the chapter I was in to complete that research, and not two chapters away. There were no fellowships at the time, and when I did research magical goods, I was the first in my neighborhood to have gotten that far, so I did not have the option of trading for the goods I had yet to be able to develop.
It probably will not satisfy very many, but a possibility exists - simply make orcs a good that can be exchanged through the trader.
 

DeletedUser629

Guest
Oh for heaven's sake!! I only mentioned the US servers because you did Goryn! None of it matters! They do a fine job, they just have zero ability to get anything changed. It isn't as if a dev ever bothers to come chat with the players on the forums.

What matters is that the Orc requirement is ruining the game! It has caused many players to quit because they are hitting this stupid limitation too early. Players want to play a game, not sit and wait through 2 chapters before they can play again. I gave you lots of information from Elvenar players regarding how people feel about this. It makes no difference what server they play on. They are players.

YOU ARE THE ONE WHO SAID THAT IF THIS WAS STOPPING NEGOTIATIONS IT WOULD BE CHANGED.

YOU SAID THAT NEGOTIATING SHOULD NOT BE IMPOSSIBLE.
IT IS IMPOSSIBLE!!! So, if you now are backtracking, then JUST SAY SO! Stop running around the issue talking about anything else.

The consequences of this limitation are that many people have already quit after they have advanced cities. Those cities will languish forever on the world map and clog up the map even more. These folks have complained greatly about this limitation and players who were on the fence about staying have left too knowing this is about to hit them. Instead of selling anything, Inno has managed to simply get rid of potential customers. Those players who WERE here for months are now gone. They will never get to the fairy chapter and they will never buy a snail. They won't be here to buy any moon splinters. They won't buy anything from Elvenar ever again because they have quit. Those of us left behind have a worse game too because we have lost friends and we now have more dead cities around us.

Twist this and turn this into any discussion you want, but the bottom line hasn't changed. This requirement has STOPPED players from being able to negotiate provinces for two chapters!!! If you can't figure out why that is really bad, then you don't know much about how this game works.


You started this thread with copy/paste messages from another forum, something we can't allow because it doesn't make any sense. So you brought it here, and i had to respond to it. The beta team does not have more influence on the developer team than any other Elvenar team, we are equally important. Further messages form other forums will be deleted.

I never said it would be changed, i said chances are it will be changed, and yes, negotiating should not be impossible, the game should have both options open at all times. In most cases this is still a fact, it's the advanced players who have 222+ provinces scouted who are hitting a wall.

So whenever we change something, we have to look at the bigger picture because it will affect every player, thus affect the entire balance of the game.

Last but not least, we already have a thread dedicated to this specific issue, and this thread was created with the sole purpose of showing us how frustrated players on another forum are. I will therefore close this thread for further comments so we can all use 1 thread to discuss this.

Please use this thread to further discuss the Orc requirement in provinces :)

https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/inde...-are-needed-after-10th-provinces-circle.5368/
 
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