Lovec Krys
Well-Known Member
@CrazyWizard Agree, but we all know that they won't even start thinking about the change in next 1 or 2 years.
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Discussion Tournament Changes (post-release)
- Thread starter Marindor
- Start date
Enevhar Aldarion
Well-Known Member
So my Live city in chapter 17 with zero AWs higher than level 16 would be given a huge advantage over the hardcore tournament cities.
SoggyShorts
Well-Known Member
Would it though? I think there's something to be said for having a level 30+ Needles, Monastery, HF, VS, DA, Toads, Simia, TW...
edeba
Well-Known Member
That actually looks like a way more balanced playing field. Say level 30 on the 8 AW, so that would be a penalty of 8*(30-17) = 104 AW levels.
galrond
Well-Known Member
I like that idea. That would give ppl. an incentive to research.That wouldn't be too bad, but I'd still prefer total levels rather than per wonder so that we have choices.
It's simple too:
2 wonders unlocked = 20 levels free
4 wonders unlocked = 40 levels free
14 wonders unlocked=140 levels free
32 wonders unlocked(max)=320 levels free
Yeah but when have you known INNO to 100% abandon a bad idea?
I actually think the new tournament is a good idea. I DO think that WW, expantions and research are punished too hard.
Heymrdiedier
Well-Known Member
sorry to be a buzzkiller, but there are many suggestions for improvement, we have been giving them since august. But as long as inno refuses to acknowledge there even is a problem, nothing is gonna change and giving more suggestions feels useless.
Steelhail
Member
@edeba If INNO gave zero penalty for chapter 17 AWs at level 16 and penalized all players who already had AWs above that threshold, it just creates new inequities and outrage. “Wait, so I built up 3 level 30s buildings, this player over here has 10 AWs at level 17, and suddenly I’m penalized and they’re not at all? The only way to get rid of the penalty is to scrap my level 30 AWs and start over again and stop at level 17?” It's unclear to me how this would be balanced or avoid sparking new outrage.
I like Soggy’s recommendation better, as it is simple, gives added player flexibility, and incentivizes chapter advancement.
My slight tweaking to Soggy’s (see my earlier post #931) would be to vary the amount of free AW levels (e.g., maybe chapter 3 gives 7 AW levels, maybe chapter 8 gives 20, etc.), based on chapter balance and transparency of expectation.
Keep in mind that if we have “unlock # of provinces” to unlock chapter 4, ne players think that’s a minimum goal before entering a chapter. If I’m a new player and see (under Soggy’s proposal where unlock 2 AW=20 levels free) that I’m allowed 40 AW levels in chapter 3, I think that INNO expects me somewhere near that. Even for advanced players, there’s no clear sense of what INNO thinks is a “Goldilocks” at different chapter points; all we know is that chapter 17 players presently suffer for exceeding whatever that magic number is.
Soggy’s recommendation is simpler than mine, though, and maybe easier for INNO to implement?
Lovec Krys
Well-Known Member
It doesn't matter what is easier to implement, what does matter is, what Inno wants to implement. So we can give a milion of suggestions, but nothing will be changed for next 1 to 2 years at least...
Jammin
Well-Known Member
I also see it that way, INNO would like the tournament to be expensive and difficult, according to the motto "Nothing is free"
Everyone gave their feedback, everyone screamed, scolded and stamped their feet. This is what they wanted to hear to get confirmation that everything is going according to plan.
In the meantime, there are even detailed specifications on how such feedback should look, in order to see exactly where it hurts.
It's funny, many players think the forum is there to sweeten the game, to make it the way the players want it. e.g. through feedback or ideas for the game.
No, that's just an illusion, if INNO can earn money from it, something will be implemented, otherwise not.
If such an implementation happens to coincide with a player's wish / idea, it is just a positive side effect of the business model, similar to the side effect of a drug in a positive sense.
So if you want to have something implemented, you also offer a business model that includes INNO's sales.
I've been a little more cautious with ideas lately, since almost everything that was of use to me was taken out of the game.
Be warned, if you have something that works for you, don't tell anyone, especially not in the forum, because it will be taken away from you and then when you want it back you will have to do or pay for a lot more.
But if I'm supposed to speculate, I would say next is the tower, it has been and is being fiddled with, I see something like that ... whoever climbs to the top has probably already noticed it. Although the tower is already expensive, it still only has a difficulty of about 30-35 tournament province up to the top ...
there would still be room for 1-2 more floors ... let's be surprised because the tower works well for INNO. Or not?
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edeba
Well-Known Member
Inno earned money because of how spending it sweetened the game. Now spending doesn't sweeten the game.
edeba
Well-Known Member
Ok, on live going from province 27 to province 30, I took screen shots, and I'm down about 165 squads with just 3 provinces to level 5 with manual battle. From 30 to 31 for the 5 levels lost another 63 units. Province 31 to 32 easier mix of military, 49 units lost. Province 32 to 33, 60 units lost. Province 33 to 34, 68 units lost. Province 34 to 35, 26 units lost. Province 35 to 36, 55 units lost. Province 36 to 37, 52 units lost. Province 37 to 38, 76 units lost.
The difficulty curve is way too steep. This ISN"T fun.
The difficulty curve is way too steep. This ISN"T fun.
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edeba
Well-Known Member
The changes are stupid, stupid, stupid, as is the lack of response to the degree of negative feedback. It is insane to have taken the game in the direction that I now have 4 expansions that I haven't placed because of how it harms the tournament more than it helps, and it is gross lying to suggest it does not. There are AW I want to place, but again, the design and level of penalty for placing an extra AW on top of the land penalty for the land it will use makes it a questionable thing to do.
It is beyond stupid to have taken the game in this direction. It is unethical to have wiped out people's investment in the game into land expansions. If there's such a thing as karma, it should take the developers to ruin for the degree of disregard for players.
It is beyond stupid to have taken the game in this direction. It is unethical to have wiped out people's investment in the game into land expansions. If there's such a thing as karma, it should take the developers to ruin for the degree of disregard for players.
CrazyWizard
Well-Known Member
I don't have 4, but yeah I got a province expansions as well that I am not willing to place.
Pauly7
Well-Known Member
I also have province expansions that I haven't placed. It is truly a ridiculous change that they have no interest in improving.
I know lots of people have similar stories to share, but I had a good fellow leave the game this week because she was too depressed by the idea that she could no longer build or upgrade the Ancient Wonders she wanted to, for fear of making tournaments more difficult. Some people will continue, unaware of how much more difficult they are making it. Some of us try to make the best of it by deleting some Wonders and then being very careful and selective about which ones to upgrade going forward. There is also a big group of players, though, who understand what is happening, but feel there is no fun left in the game if they are penalised for making advancements. They also feel (as we all do) that the developers are being very deceptive by creating an assumption that players should build and upgrade these buildings anyway.
I know lots of people have similar stories to share, but I had a good fellow leave the game this week because she was too depressed by the idea that she could no longer build or upgrade the Ancient Wonders she wanted to, for fear of making tournaments more difficult. Some people will continue, unaware of how much more difficult they are making it. Some of us try to make the best of it by deleting some Wonders and then being very careful and selective about which ones to upgrade going forward. There is also a big group of players, though, who understand what is happening, but feel there is no fun left in the game if they are penalised for making advancements. They also feel (as we all do) that the developers are being very deceptive by creating an assumption that players should build and upgrade these buildings anyway.
FieryArien
Well-Known Member
I also have several expansions which I didn’t place. It’s just silly. An expansion used to be something I was looking for and cherished when I got one. Not having enough gold right at that moment was like a small tragedy (for few moments until I corrected the problem, but still). And the possibilities it opened up! Always such a joy.
Well ... not anymore.
Well ... not anymore.
edeba
Well-Known Member
I almost deleted my city today. Absolutely fun and excitement of the advances are gone. Lack of fun seems to be a common theme.
Aeva
Well-Known Member
Lack of fun is also something we do ourselves. If everybody is complaining the fun flies out of the window.
We are stuck with this system of tournaments, so we better make the best of it en start looking at the bright sight even if it is sometimes hard to find.
Pauly7
Well-Known Member
Which is what I do, and no doubt probably what most of the people still talking about it do. I was just giving an example of someone who isn't prepared to look at the bright side any longer and so has left. Someone who had been playing for years. From what I gather this is happening a lot.
So yeah... it is what it is. Nothing is going to change. Someone revitalised this thread today though, so I responded on it. The feeling about it all doesn't change in the intervening time.
CrazyWizard
Well-Known Member
The most depressing part is that it's hard in in some casses inpossible to correct.
And yes I have seen people leave the game when finding out the former "unit research" issue.
This one is much worse.
While thanks to my multiple bears I can still compete, but I lost much fun in the game as well, new chapters, new expansions, leveling my wonders all that fun is down the drain.
I think @FieryArien menstioned it correctly.
We need to keep complaining and whining about this issue, it took them several years to fix the former one after many people complained. they made it worse, but the main question now would be if we keep complaining untill they finally cave in. can they make it even worse? as right now I have no clue how.
Also the more we keep this alive the more people get depressed, the more people find this stupidity out and get depressed the more quit, the more quit the more likely they replace this piece of junk quicker than 2 years from now.
SoggyShorts
Well-Known Member
I and quite a few others disagree. The changes are so flawed that many are hanging on just for the hope that it will change, and if it doesn't they will not "make the best of it" they will quit.
I don't care that the KP rewards are lower. I don't care that the enemy troop mixes are harder.
I care that there is no path for me to take that makes my city better. That must be fixed.
With every major change some players will complain and threaten to quit, but this time I've actually lost 7 players from my 2 Live fellowships due to the tournament changes. Some top 100 scores too, all spenders.
Let me rephrase that:
14% of the players in my fellowships have quit the game due to the lack of progress incentives. Going forward makes you worse. Terrible design.
I'm "lucky" in that I haven't bought or placed many expansions & wonders compared to some, and I just finished chapter 15, but what now?
- Why should I go any further into chapter 16 than the advanced scouts?
- Why should I place my expansions?
- Why should I fight on the world map to earn expansions that I shouldn't place?
- Why should I upgrade my wonders?
- Why should I.... play?