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Discussion Tournament Changes (post-release)

guivou

Well-Known Member
trouble with map : defeat with that in automatic should not happen !!!!

1604154613894.png


seeing map you understand :(

1604154750608.png
 

Aeva

Well-Known Member
:oops: I put out the dogs to for this one. Opened the map, closed it again and went for the forest warden. Glad I didn't do this one on auto
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
1604165209616.png

Yeah it's all a nightmare.
Guess this worked somehow in the old format as your enemies where not that powerfull either but ouch what a drama
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
I think I lost one fight on both Beta and Live with all dogs in a fight they should have won. I must had had this map for both. One of those fights, I think the troops were fairly even, too, like for @guivou .

But both times I just switched to different light melee troops and won easily. I think the big movement range for the dogs is what hurt, as it got them trapped. The other light melee and their shorter range, allowed the enemy to get closer without getting in a first shot, so the fight went better.
 

Dony

King of Bugs
@Dony are you certain the maps where always this horrible?
yes i am, i have checked my videos from 2017 and all of them have this obstacles layouts
crystal is known to be one of the tournaments with worst maps tho
but with 160% max difficulty in old system this wasnt so apparent
I had bigger losses in planks tournaments then crystal tho, because of domination of mistwalkers
I hope they will fix this!
i am afraid there is nothing to fix here, there will still be easier and harder tournaments, but those switched with introduction of new system, you will just have to find them out
 

Jackluyt

Well-Known Member
i am afraid there is nothing to fix here, there will still be easier and harder tournaments, but those switched with introduction of new system, you will just have to find them out

That is TOTALLY unacceptable! Tournaments should ALL be the same level of difficulty. It is most unfair to a newcomer who depends on maxing his boosted relics as soon as he can to max his / her factory production, if his particular boost is a nightmare to get relics, while his neighbor with a different boost gets easy tournaments.
I have made this point often - all players should be treated equally - and balancing tournaments so they are similar in expense is an obvious requirement. Else we are going right back to the 'nightmare Scrolls tournament from Hell'' that we used to have - and I am sure this is not the designer's intention - which is why I provided feedback above.
:( :(

Map anomalies are also not acceptable - a large number of players autofight only - and some have no choice because they are playing on the App. So they will not know that they have encountered an awkward map - all they will see is that they are getting slaughtered one week and not the next one. And that is not right...
:( :(
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
It is most unfair to a newcomer who depends on maxing his boosted relics as soon as he can to max his / her factory production, if his particular boost is a nightmare to get relics, while his neighbor with a different boost gets easy tournaments.
Nightmare begins way further than newcomer can get. (not enough provinces scouted)
Map anomalies are also not acceptable - a large number of players autofight only - and some have no choice because they are playing on the App. So they will not know that they have encountered an awkward map
When new tournaments just arrived here I was fighting manual most of the time, but since they added 3 queues I'm too lazy for that. This week too.
Cannon fodder produced during the week in barracks/TG+AWs is enough to get up to 25-30 province using full auto, and then units from MC (where I spend time instants from spire) up to ~10k score full auto too. After feeding the bears this weekend my army would be a few hundred squads bigger than week ago, so I don't care about terrain issues and manual fights.
But! I am on a sweet spot:
1. stopped progressing through tech tree after researching frog prince
2. have a bunch of normal expansions not placed
3. have almost no "bad" AWs leveled
4. have zero tourney province cooldown (=using one set of expiring buildings for 2 tourneys)
5. (as cherry on a cake) have 2 fire phoenixes (=can use smaller amount of expiring buildings and keep up the stash).

Even without second phoenix and feeding bears/using time instants you still can sustain 7-8k points full auto in the city that just started chapter17.
But if you are not playing spire/not crafting every expiring building that appears in MA/can't play 2 tourneys per one set of expiring buildings - you would fail to get high score every week.
 

DeletedUser1953

Guest
Yes the game becomes somewhat strange, you need to place new building and in place to add extension (i have some in my inventory, i have even expansion research "lost" in the tech tree) ... you teleport factories back (and so after workshop & residence) ... i think the game is broken ... probably fixed in 6-15 months !
I already stopped my main city, all AW was 30/35 (2/3 are useless but i do not want to sell), full extension, the spire cost is insane and there is no fun to spend time to the game become harder => i play my secondary city (elemental chapter), and it is easy to do 8k tournament & spire level III each week but i think i will stop when i will reach the frog prince, probably the game will be not fixed at this time !
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Nightmare begins way further than newcomer can get. (not enough provinces scouted)

When new tournaments just arrived here I was fighting manual most of the time, but since they added 3 queues I'm too lazy for that. This week too.
Cannon fodder produced during the week in barracks/TG+AWs is enough to get up to 25-30 province using full auto, and then units from MC (where I spend time instants from spire) up to ~10k score full auto too. After feeding the bears this weekend my army would be a few hundred squads bigger than week ago, so I don't care about terrain issues and manual fights.
But! I am on a sweet spot:
1. stopped progressing through tech tree after researching frog prince
2. have a bunch of normal expansions not placed
3. have almost no "bad" AWs leveled
4. have zero tourney province cooldown (=using one set of expiring buildings for 2 tourneys)
5. (as cherry on a cake) have 2 fire phoenixes (=can use smaller amount of expiring buildings and keep up the stash).

Even without second phoenix and feeding bears/using time instants you still can sustain 7-8k points full auto in the city that just started chapter17.
But if you are not playing spire/not crafting every expiring building that appears in MA/can't play 2 tourneys per one set of expiring buildings - you would fail to get high score every week.
If they made it so we could all get a second fire phoenix and second brown bear this new tournament would not be so bad, and this different probably skewed their results some.

In this post I've proposed a difficulty steepness that would simply be far more fair. Make no mistake, it is still a slaughter, but I think people could probably get 3-6 more provinces, https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/tournament-score.15731/#post-92209.

The other thing that needs to happen is take out the premium expansions... Or because the diamond give away did make it easy to get around 10 free expansion, stop counting after the expansions cost say 5000 diamonds.

And then the steepness on the AWs needs to be looked at. To me, the easiest solution is to just count the higher of the two AWs that come with each chapter.

With these changes it starts to make sense to place expansion, buy expansion, level AWs and advance through the chapters again.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
To me, the easiest solution is to just count the higher of the two AWs that come with each chapter.
I pretty much like the rest of your proposals, but I can't get behind this idea because the chapters don't have evenly distributed "good" wonders.

For players who don't have every single wonder and due to space must pick and choose "good ones" your idea doesn't really address the issue.
E.G.
  • The monastery is awesome, the lighthouse... not so much
  • WT & thrones are both sub-par
  • TW & Simia are both great
So using those 3 chapters as an example: The Simia and Timewarp leveled up together is good because only one of them counts against you, but because the lighthouse is pretty crap the monastery will be alone and still fully count against the player. That leaves the WT & thrones which won't suddenly become worth building, so no change there.
Overall on those 6 wonders only 1 change.
Effectively this would be a buff to the few chapters where both wonders are good and a nerf where there's just one

The Golden Abyss gets a nerf because the ToS isn't worth the space late-game
EE & Needles get buffed because both are good and only one will hurt you.
DA nerf
FA nerf
Pyramid nerf
Victory springs nerf
TW& Simia buff
and so on.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
I pretty much like the rest of your proposals, but I can't get behind this idea because the chapters don't have evenly distributed "good" wonders.

For players who don't have every single wonder and due to space must pick and choose "good ones" your idea doesn't really address the issue.
E.G.
  • The monastery is awesome, the lighthouse... not so much
  • WT & thrones are both sub-par
  • TW & Simia are both great
So using those 3 chapters as an example: The Simia and Timewarp leveled up together is good because only one of them counts against you, but because the lighthouse is pretty crap the monastery will be alone and still fully count against the player. That leaves the WT & thrones which won't suddenly become worth building, so no change there.
Overall on those 6 wonders only 1 change.
Effectively this would be a buff to the few chapters where both wonders are good and a nerf where there's just one

The Golden Abyss gets a nerf because the ToS isn't worth the space late-game
EE & Needles get buffed because both are good and only one will hurt you.
DA nerf
FA nerf
Pyramid nerf
Victory springs nerf
TW& Simia buff
and so on.
An alternative is to weight the AW half as much.

But, you've explained your ideas, but I don't see why anything you've said is a problem. Overall there would be less penalty for AW levels, and what you've just added is some strategic planning around what would be best.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
I don't see why anything you've said is a problem
Basically, my issue with it is that the wonders are currently very poorly balanced, and counting one per chapter against you makes this worse, not better. It also makes it harder to later rebalance the wonders without pissing off players even more than they will anyways later.

I'd prefer a system where XXX wonder levels (per chapter? per tech? per placed expansion?) don't count against you at all.
This encourages players to progress through the game, mitigates the damage done by expansions, and opens it up to at least a few different over-all strategies.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
The alternative is to not count AWs at all, the same goes for expansions (especialy premium - you pay to get punished!).
But for that to change we have to wait another 1-2 year.
Maybe some time later someone will be surprised why there is so few end game players if they continue with this formula for too long.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
The alternative is to not count AWs at all, the same goes for expansions
This recreates the problem of players parking in a "sweet spot" and defeating other players who are progressing through the game. I can't say for sure that INNO is against this, but if we are all complaining about progress being punished then we shouldn't advocate for a system that rewards a strategy of not progressing.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
@SoggyShorts And current system differs from system with sweet parking spot(s) how? Because it does punish you for progressing (and for placing expansions and leveling your wonders).
To avoid this, the system would be best scaled by chapter and anything you do in that chapter besides going into it would only help you.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Basically, my issue with it is that the wonders are currently very poorly balanced, and counting one per chapter against you makes this worse, not better. It also makes it harder to later rebalance the wonders without pissing off players even more than they will anyways later.

I'd prefer a system where XXX wonder levels (per chapter? per tech? per placed expansion?) don't count against you at all.
This encourages players to progress through the game, mitigates the damage done by expansions, and opens it up to at least a few different over-all strategies.
Another way of dealing with it that I suggested was that your chapter number of levels not count, which is also an easy way of dealing with it. So, if you are in chapter 10, AW up to level 10 don't count...
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
@SoggyShorts And current system differs from system with sweet parking spot(s) how? Because it does punish you for progressing (and for placing expansions and leveling your wonders).
To avoid this, the system would be best scaled by chapter and anything you do in that chapter besides going into it would only help you.

Yes but the solution should not be to keep that system in place with changed parameters.
It should be something they should get rid of copmpletely.

Each chapter should have progression in one way or another so there is an incentive to keep playing and spending.
Not an incentive to stay put and don't spend a penny.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
another way of dealing with it that I suggested was that your chapter number of levels not count, which is also an easy way of dealing with it. So, if you are in chapter 10, AW up to level 10 don't count...
That wouldn't be too bad, but I'd still prefer total levels rather than per wonder so that we have choices.
It's simple too:
2 wonders unlocked = 20 levels free
4 wonders unlocked = 40 levels free
14 wonders unlocked=140 levels free
32 wonders unlocked(max)=320 levels free
It should be something they should get rid of copmpletely.
Yeah but when have you known INNO to 100% abandon a bad idea?:(
 
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