Discussion Tournament Changes (post-release)

[Deleted User - 88552]

?????? where did you get tha information from?
They said it will be on beta for a while and not be ported to live anytime soon.

And you believe them? ha it's coming far sooner than you think

 

[PrimroseSylvia]

And you believe them? ha

No, we surely trust your post more than Marindor's.

 

[Jackluyt]

Poor rewards for the new chests:

The rewards for the existing ten chests are in Knowledge Points 3, 5 , 7, 10, 10, 15, 15, 20, 20, 30 - plus the tenth chest gets a blueprint

The new bonus chests cost a lot more hard work and motivation - but all you get is one RR Spell and 10 KP!

That really does not seem fair, to me!

Here is a Suggestion:

Why not give out some new kind of reward that players can collect - and when they have enough of them, they can craft a Blueprint - or even better, an Universal Artifact!

Players have been crying out for a one-size-fits-all artifact to evolve the buildings that they craft in the Magic Academy. I understand that the designers want to keep artifacts rare and special - this would be ideal!
You would need rather alot of these to craft an Artifact - which would keep those special and rare.
They could also give out these ‘artifact fragments’ in the Fellowship Adventures.

That would be a massive incentive to get fellowships going for the new chests!!
And the Adventures too!!

 

[Pauly7]

The new bonus chests cost a lot more hard work and motivation - but all you get is one RR Spell and 10 KP!

That really does not seem fair, to me!

We can debate the logic of this, but they made the prizes for chests 11-19 nominal only. The 10th chest is still supposed to be the ultimate goal and the extra chests are just for fun if people are seeing how far they can go and how competitive they can be.

I've said it before, but I'm fully in support of the prizes being small for all these extra chests. If people keep complaining then they may take the blueprint out of the 10th and put it in the 19th. Big prizes in higher chests will also make Fellowships re-evaluate their goals and how much pressure they put on fellows to do more. I think we can do without that right now.

The problem is the huge jumps in KP between them. Considering what they've done to the tournaments I can't really see the need to scale it up to a 161k point maximum. I guess they figure eventually we will all work out another way to start scoring big again.

 

[edeba]

Exactly, the big picture was 10 chests was still the big prize and the extra chests were just a little extra for the FS that tend to do more.

We can debate the logic of this, but they made the prizes for chests 11-19 nominal only. The 10th chest is still supposed to be the ultimate goal and the extra chests are just for fun if people are seeing how far they can go and how competitive they can be.

I've said it before, but I'm fully in support of the prizes being small for all these extra chests. If people keep complaining then they may take the blueprint out of the 10th and put it in the 19th. Big prizes in higher chests will also make Fellowships re-evaluate their goals and how much pressure they put on fellows to do more. I think we can do without that right now.

The problem is the huge jumps in KP between them. Considering what they've done to the tournaments I can't really see the need to scale it up to a 161k point maximum. I guess they figure eventually we will all work out another way to start scoring big again.

 

[Dl. Goe]

I don't understand the big fuss about the optional squad sizes researches. It makes almost no difference if you have them.
I just backfilled up to the sorcerers and, I have yet to feel anything changing.

It should not be so much about feelings, but rather some hard numbers; for example, someone in chapter 16, without any optional SSU researched has SS around 3k, while someone with all SSU researched has a SS just shy of 6k; the difference is relevant, I would say.

 

[marcovaldo19]

My point of view is a little different from what was said on page 17 by Marindor
I feel that with this new tournament the first objective is to reduce the KP accumulation thus reducing the speed of researches and in game progression.
This is also related to chapter 16 where enormous amonts of goods and KP are required.
That said I would like to propose a different solution
1) instead of having one unique ranking we should have one each 5 leveles of teck tree. Ie 1-5 rank, 6-10 rank, 11-15 rank, over 15 rank. This would balance a lot.
2) Reducing tournament rewards from provinces > 10. Actually they give all the same, and a lot of KP. Changing the rewards in a similar way to provinces 1-9 will reduce the benefit without impacting fights
3) I love the less click new system, but the cost to cater is not reduced. Introducing a lot of orcs has a big impact, but I think it wold be quite easy to calculate the cost for a province as the sum of the actual four encounters and divide it by 4
4) I dislike the opponents too much changing, because of the strategy loss, same for catering costs too unpredictable

 

[Marindor]

@Nimalsirt could you please stop trying to create unrest? As I said before: We are taking the time to process all feedback and make adjustments first.

 

[marcovaldo19]

@Marindor do you have news for this week?

 

[palmira]

In summary: I believe everybody by now is sort of OK with the increased difficulty of the tournaments, the real problem is the SS as this is completely unbalanced punishing real hard players with even a few premium expansions and a "normal" number of AWs levels if you have been playing the tourneys in a dedicated manner.

The problem is that the SS numbers increase exponentially, or a sum of exponentials with an insane argument, whereas the benefices we get both from expansions and AWs increase very slowly and linearly (up to a point, if you upgrade past lvl 30 most AWs give you nothing or close to nothing, GA for instances gives you 54k more coins).

And we can forget about negotiating, nobody with the huge SS we are seeing pretty soon on the tourney is able to supply the amount of coins, supplies, mana or orcs in a sustainable way for more then a few provinces per week (assuming he or she is between races, if researching only the ones asking just goods...).

The question Inno should be able to answer us is if they think is fair players with the same lvl of researches should have such hugely different SSs when they produce roughly the same amount of troops per hour, including the ridiculous amount troop producing AWs supply.

 

[edeba]

I do hope there is news for us this week. It has been two weeks since this monstrosity was introduced and the concerns completely mirror the concerns that were brought prior to the introduction. I expect my fs will be losing a very good player this week without any news, and that is part of your financial base for the game.

@Marindor

@Marindor do you have news for this week?

@palmira You do not speak for everyone. You might be ok with the increasing difficulty, but your only have the right to speak for yourself on the issue. If anything, when I review what's been said, the concept of increasing difficulty has varying degrees of acceptance but the steepness of that increase seems to be at issue.

To me, your analysis is problematic. Getting all of the optional expansions increased troop size by about 25% of the base, but the AW levels increased base by 413%. The problem with the combined effect was that depending on the number of AW, the increase in troops penalty from the expansions is as much as 413% higher, depending on the number of AWs.

In summary: I believe everybody by now is sort of OK with the increased difficulty of the tournaments, the real problem is the SS as this is completely unbalanced punishing real hard players with even a few premium expansions and a "normal" number of AWs levels if you have been playing the tourneys in a dedicated manner.

The problem is that the SS numbers increase exponentially, or a sum of exponentials with an insane argument, whereas the benefices we get both from expansions and AWs increase very slowly and linearly (up to a point, if you upgrade past lvl 30 most AWs give you nothing or close to nothing, GA for instances gives you 54k more coins).

And we can forget about negotiating, nobody with the huge SS we are seeing pretty soon on the tourney is able to supply the amount of coins, supplies, mana or orcs in a sustainable way for more then a few provinces per week (assuming he or she is between races, if researching only the ones asking just goods...).

The question Inno should be able to answer us is if they think is fair players with the same lvl of researches should have such hugely different SSs when they produce roughly the same amount of troops per hour, including the ridiculous amount troop producing AWs supply.

 

[Pauly7]

@palmira You do not speak for everyone. You might be ok with the increasing difficulty, but your only have the right to speak for yourself on the issue. If anything, when I review what's been said, the concept of increasing difficulty has varying degrees of acceptance but the steepness of that increase seems to be at issue.

To me, your analysis is problematic. Getting all of the optional expansions increased troop size by about 25% of the base, but the AW levels increased base by 413%. The problem with the combined effect was that depending on the number of AW, the increase in troops penalty from the expansions is as much as 413% higher, depending on the number of AWs.

If I understood it right, I think you are misconstruing @palmira's point, which was that to agree, in principle, with the tournaments increasing in difficulty, but to disagree with the rate at which the provinces and rounds get exponentially more difficult.

 

[baypen]

And we can forget about negotiating, nobody with the huge SS we are seeing pretty soon on the tourney is able to supply the amount of coins, supplies, mana or orcs in a sustainable way for more then a few provinces per week (assuming he or she is between races, if researching only the ones asking just goods...).

I agree absolutely, traders are again and still the loosers here. It´s a pitty, because fighting games you can find on every corner, you don´t need Elvenar if you are simply interested in fighting every day .

 

[spennyit]

As already said: tournament difficulty should be based ONLY on MANDATORY SS updates, full stop. And the same should be for the Spire. This is the only parameter that represents the single progression.

You what to stop your progression in doing races to just do tournament, do it: this is not playing Elvenar and I am not interested in a "rank" vs. you. As already somebody else said, Inno can easily introduce rankings per each chapter or by small groups of chapters.

Another consideration: in chapter 16 each research requires about 250 KPs: in a week we get 24*7=168. So, without tournaments KPs, you need 3 weeks for 2 researches. There are 40 researches (not all at 250 KPs cost) i.e. 20*3=60 weeks i.e. about 1 year. Is it reasonable? Not to me. In 6 moths there are 26 weeks and we should be able to "easily" finish each race in 4-5 months, at least this is my opinion

 

[Dl. Goe]

players with the same lvl of researches ...produce roughly the same amount of troops per hour, including the ridiculous amount troop producing AWs supply.

Hmm, I understand your view and sustained up to a point, but let’s be honest…what you say now it’s not really true…wonders are probably the most important booster, far more than expansions, probably equalled only by research.

If you need an example, think about someone with Needles at top (100%-112% speed) and Simia as well (140%-146% collect bonus, not added but multiplied); that gives a 300% production speed compared with someone who plays without them. If we add up the Monastery (30% more health) and probably 40% strength for all troops, that makes a huge difference, nothing roughly the same…

What I want to say is, if they decided to narrow the gap between players in tournaments, they should be focussed mainly on AW levels (the benefits they bring) and less so on expansions or chapter, which are not as powerful and everyone can improve these two faster than AW.

 

[edeba]

That would have been the simple solution to fix the problem that not doing SS upgrades gave an advantage. It would not have lead to such a high level of cognitive dissonance and outrage. I don't see how it could have led to any of the how many pages of "this." This is not team building or improving game engagement. I tend to thing it is quite the opposite.

As already said: tournament difficulty should be based ONLY on MANDATORY SS updates, full stop. And the same should be for the Spire. This is the only parameter that represents the single progression.

 

[DeletedUser3314]

As already said: tournament difficulty should be based ONLY on MANDATORY SS updates, full stop. And the same should be for the Spire. This is the only parameter that represents the single progression. ...

The curve would be really jumpy if you only count mandatoy SS updates because there are just too few. Use all mandatory upgrades to base the difficulty on, you'll get a much smoother curve.

 

[PaNonymeB]

That would have been the simple solution to fix the problem that not doing SS upgrades gave an advantage. It would not have lead to such a high level of cognitive dissonance and outrage. I don't see how it could have led to any of the how many pages of "this." This is not team building or improving game engagement. I tend to thing it is quite the opposite.

Marindor explained why they don't want a formula based only on chapter progress (which something based on mandatory SS upgrades would be).

What we ideally don't want to do, is favor one play style over the other. By just tying difficulty to chapters, we would basically encourage players to stay in low chapters and massively boost their AW without progressing in the game.

 

[Karvest]

but with current formula they do the same, as moving through chapters have even bigger impact now, since it's multiplied by expansions and AW levels.

 

[Pauly7]

What I want to say is, if they decided to narrow the gap between players in tournaments, they should be focussed mainly on AW levels (the benefits they bring) and less so on expansions or chapter, which are not as powerful and everyone can improve these two faster than AW.

Use all mandatory upgrade to base the difficulty on, you'll get a much smoother curve.

Either of these two options may allow someone to specialise in tournaments by doing just one or just the other. This is purportedly the reason that they are trying to splice it all into a tournament formula. They just aren't doing a good job of it.