Discussion Runeshard Changes

[Potvorisko]

Don't forget, that big players maybe have big amount of runes, but there are just 5 builders and crazy costs for building wonders 30+ and mana/seeds/unurium for wonders from constructs. This will also slow the wonder boom, so don't worry personally, I think, that I will never be able to spent runes, that I have been gathering for 5 years. It might take me years + new players have advantage since they can see the game and wonders that are useful from other point than we did, so they might never delete useless wonders, level up faster the usefull ones and still have easier tournament, they will do all 6 rounds...so it is far more complex.

 

[Deleted User - 95013]

@little bee Getting 3k kps donated and then you have to wait a day because of it: oh no! Anyway...

 

[micha57]

Edit Marindor: @micha57 Once again: English only, please.

 

[Moncsociusz]

I think still the rune transfer system is brilliant as I maxed out some wonders and still get runes for them*from grand prizes or tourneys. So these could be finally used to swap kp.

I think this KP balance thing could be easily solved if there is a separate counter for it in your wonder tab which shows when others try to donate as well. There could be no complaints that people are unaware and can plan accordingly. Just a little counter. All it takes from dev side is to* display number of the accounts. It would be a shame if this great new feature would be held back because of* something this trivial. Especially as it tries to combat unfair behaviour. It should be a win for everyone

Edit: some typos

 

[Jackluyt]

I think still the rune transfer system is brilliant as I maxed out some wonders and still get runes for it from grand prizes or tourneys. So these could be used finally to swap kp.

I think this KP balance thing could be easily solved if there is a separate counter for it in your wonder tab which shows when others try to donate you as well. So the there could be no complaints that people are unaware and can plan accordingly. Just a little counter. All it takes from dev side is it display number of the accounts. It would be a shame if this great new feature would be held back because if something this trivial. Especially as it tries to combat unfair behaviour. So it should be a win for everyone

It would also be nice if there was a way to see the level and progress of all our Wonders! At present you have to visit them one by one which is very time-consuming. Alternatively you can ask a fellowship member to tell you what is ready and which you should be working on next - and that is so silly that anyone who visits your city can see the status of all your wonders - but you yourself cannot see this information.
I am sure this would be a small change that would be easy to implement; I hope someone suggests it to the designers.

 

[little bee]

@little bee Getting 3k kps donated and then you have to wait a day because of it: oh no! Anyway...

You don't just have to wait a day. You get flagged as a cheater, quite likely have no idea what is going on or how to fix it and possibly disrupt the KP swap of the entire fellowship. And that is not even counting the potential damadge of getting tricked into building the wrong wonders.
So yes, I do belive that this is worse than not getting 10k KP in a single day.

 

[Deleted User - 66078]

I think the rune shard changes are, on the whole, a good thing.
I think pushing limits are, on the whole, a good thing.

I think the temporary issues are unfortunate, but worth it for what we are getting.

 

[Alcaro]

You don't just have to wait a day. You get flagged as a cheater, quite likely have no idea what is going on or how to fix it and possibly disrupt the KP swap of the entire fellowship. And that is not even counting the potential damadge of getting tricked into building the wrong wonders.
So yes, I do belive that this is worse than not getting 10k KP in a single day.

I wonder how someone can be tricked to build something they don't want, unless they don't bother to read the Wiki or check Gems or at least to ask around about the utility of a certain wonder. There are so many sources to inform yourself that being a new player it's not an excuse whatsoever.

 

[Ropucha]

Well I play Elvenar for nearly 3,5 years, am currently at end of chapter 19 and this is my current rune state.

If I can exchange each of them as 15 VB instant, I would get roughly 261 000 KPs (17448 runes total), so from this point of view I welcome this change. As more than half of my wonders can reach level 35 immediately. On the other hand injecting milions of KPs to servers in a single day will definitely create some short term inconsistencies and accounts blocked from receiving or giving KPs. Hopefully we will not get banned for trying to get rid of huge numbers of runes in a single day
And there are people who play it for 6+ years and have even more runes than me.
I hope this will finally prevent from what we can see on my live server - player (avg tourney score 5000) leveling new wonders from 1 to 31 in maybe a month or less.
And with this change, there should be at least some rebalacing of Spire and Tourney squad size formula (lower the effect of wonders about 15-20%) as many average players will also achieve around 20-50 wonder levels in very short time and will suffer the penalty from them. Not beeing able to go back when they realise what happenned as this formula is "secret".
As a whole, I think there are currently more positives on this change than negatives and I'm very curious how this will evolve before going to live.

 

[SoggyShorts]

with this change, there should be at least some rebalacing of Spire and Tourney squad size formula (lower the effect of wonders about 15-20%) as many average players will also achieve around 20-50 wonder levels in very short time and will suffer the penalty from them. Not beeing able to go back when they realise what happenned as this formula is "secret".

Indeed. I wonder how many players actually know how the formula works. I suspect hundreds(thousands?) of players could be thrilled at gaining 5-10 levels for each wonder and then question why they are running out of goods and troops halfway through the week.

 

[little bee]

I wonder how someone can be tricked to build something they don't want, unless they don't bother to read the Wiki or check Gems or at least to ask around about the utility of a certain wonder. There are so many sources to inform yourself that being a new player it's not an excuse whatsoever.

Like this:

Indeed. I wonder how many players actually know how the formula works. I suspect hundreds(thousands?) of players could be thrilled at gaining 5-10 levels for each wonder and then question why they are running out of goods and troops halfway through the week.

Neither the wiki nor gems explain the tournament formula. So most players will take a free wonder, without knowing that it is actually a poinsoned apple.

 

[Skillpowers]

Like this:


Neither the wiki nor gems explain the tournament formula. So most players will take a free wonder, without knowing that it is actually a poinsoned apple.

depending on the wonder

 

[SoggyShorts]

One unforeseen(probably) consequence is that players will "max out" a lot sooner.
If you take your ability to complete the spire & tournament seriously then there are only so many wonders that you are willing to place, and this boost in KP will help you max those out much sooner. Then what? With zero ability to improve your tournament a significant portion of the game is diminished (for some players)

 

[Alcaro]

One unforeseen(probably) consequence is that players will "max out" a lot sooner.
If you take your ability to complete the spire & tournament seriously then there are only so many wonders that you are willing to place, and this boost in KP will help you max those out much sooner. Then what? With zero ability to improve your tournament a significant portion of the game is diminished (for some players)

if your whole game gravitates around the tourny then you might want to turn your eyes towards the rest of the game. Then you will notice that there are other aspects of the game too. Fighting is just one of them.
On the other side, you don't know what new chapters might bring. Inno still have the capability to surprise us!

 

[Deleted User - 66078]

Indeed. I wonder how many players actually know how the formula works. I suspect hundreds(thousands?) of players could be thrilled at gaining 5-10 levels for each wonder and then question why they are running out of goods and troops halfway through the week.

If everyone's tourney and spire costs doubled overnight, most wouldn't notice because they don't spend enough goods or troops on the tourney to run out. Most just let their resources accumulate.

 

[Lovec Krys]

@ekarat That only counts for standard goods. I believe that most players would notice doubling mana and orcs costs.
But regarding the formula, i doubt anyone has both low enough wonders and thousands of runes(runeshards officialy) to double the costs in a few days.

 

[edeba]

One unforeseen(probably) consequence is that players will "max out" a lot sooner.
If you take your ability to complete the spire & tournament seriously then there are only so many wonders that you are willing to place, and this boost in KP will help you max those out much sooner. Then what? With zero ability to improve your tournament a significant portion of the game is diminished (for some players)

For sure... I am wondering what my squad size hit is going to be. I think I'm up 15 AW levels so far from last week's tournament. I have maybe 3 or 4 levels I wasn't really planning on doing, but I still 23 other levels I'm interested in and then I'm done.

They truly need to fix the formula and be less punitive for AWs.

I'm going to disagree with the application of a linear reduction of AW penalty. It needs to be a declining penalty for it to work, which is why I've suggested a square root for the number of AW. A 20% reduction doesn't take away the massive spread in squad size that happens from having little compared to having lots.

 

[Jammin]

I think the max level of the AW's will be further increased in the future, but Inno should really think about the effects of the AW's. For most, it doesn't make sense to level beyond level 30, because the most important effect of the AW is no longer increased. Should the case arise that the second effect is only activated again after level 35, we would first have to level up through some expensive and useless levels. I'd like to think they wouldn't do that to us and retrospectively adjust the disabled effect, but that's wishful thinking.

From my point of view, a level increase is inevitable, because otherwise every AW for ranked players would be a problem in the calculation of points per area for normal levelable buildings in the endgame, which would be funny

 

[Avocado]

I can understand @little bee s concerns. This new system has a huge amount of leverage.

It will definitely lead to the early-game wonders being levelled a lot more and much faster than before. I cannot say if - because of the penalty formula- this is destructive for the cities, or not, because I cannot calculate the benefit vs penalty of wonder-levels. A bit more of wonder levelling would be good, I suppose, because many players neglect their wonders.

It will also lead players, who have an abundance of relics (endgame/engaged tournament players) investing their hundreds or thousands of runes. Not only in their own FS, but god-knows-where on the planet and likely paying much more for the chests, than a chest-hunter or rune hunter would and than what they are worth. (because this way they can exchange useless runes for valuable chest-reward KP which can be spent in endgame wonders). I have seen that in my own FS, an outsider investing a high amount for the first chest, always in the wonders of the same small player, always an amount dividable by 15, always substantially more than the worth of the first chest. It is a nice donation for the small player (taken too far would lock them, though), but a nusiance for the wonder chain participants, and if more people would start doing it, it might have a strong impact. Levelling wonders of infrequent players might be one amongst others.

AWKP and KP have been handled with care, so far, but now I feel like super-rich, with my excess of a few hundred runes, and I have been throwing some around for fun, giving presents to some people, levelling a sanctuary's 1200 KP and other wonders within a few hours via chain with another player who did a similar thing. And that was really fun. So, yes, there is a lot of leverage and things will change.

Actually I hope, that one of the changes will be people playing the tournament round 6 more often, because now every tournament province brings a reward of 15AWKP in the last round.

 

[Avocado]

Btw, what does NetZero mean? Is that ZZ0, the Beta Server?