SoggyShorts
Well-Known Member
How do you plan on replacing the lost goods production? Will you build more factories?
Have you calculated if doing that will take more space than the Bell spire?
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Discussion Release Notes version 1.39
- Thread starter Marindor
- Start date
Have you calculated if doing that will take more space than the Bell spire?
SoggyShorts
Well-Known Member
Are you forgetting that your level 15 gems also needs pop, supplies, and culture to run? How much space is that? You can't compare 2 buildings without all of the information.my great bell is lv1 > 4x6 1476 Goods/d
my gems' manufactory lv15 > 4x5 1410 gems/3h
I think is better another factory if I need Goods, yes...
now compare your 1 expansion Bellspire vs a 6 expansion gem factory.
Don't forget that your BS gets better and better when you level it without taking any more space.
The +30% longer boosts from your FS might be useful too.
edit: Almost forgot, adding another gem, 2 workshops, and 4 residences from scratch will cost how much, and take how long?
I'm not saying the BS is better, just that your simple comparison was missing a lot of information.
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Deleted User - 60107
Guest
Two things, Soggy:
1) Both the Bellspire and the Lighthouse require 2 unlocked expansions. One is 6x4, the other is 4x6, so there's no way to fit either on a single expansion (5x5)
2) More importantly, the Lighthouse/Bell Spire total goods are per DAY. So one is 1400 Gems every 3 hours, the other is 1470 Gems every 24 hours. That's a pretty significant difference in the amount of goods gained...
1) Both the Bellspire and the Lighthouse require 2 unlocked expansions. One is 6x4, the other is 4x6, so there's no way to fit either on a single expansion (5x5)
2) More importantly, the Lighthouse/Bell Spire total goods are per DAY. So one is 1400 Gems every 3 hours, the other is 1470 Gems every 24 hours. That's a pretty significant difference in the amount of goods gained...
SoggyShorts
Well-Known Member
1) not really. 24 squares is 24 squares, not 50.
2) I know that, but is 1400 gems per 3h 6x as good as 1470 every 24h? I think they are actually pretty close since most players can't actually do 6 3h productions per day. For me a more realistic comparison would be 9h+9h+3h which is close to 5x.
More importantly I don't think most players can nuke their Bellspire and replace it with a Gem, 2 wrokshops and 5 residences even if it is better. Who has that space lying around?
I think a much more valid comparison for players who don't have the wonder yet would be MTHall vs BS/LH. I haven't had a chance to run the numbers, but I think the MtHall is a better place to put KP in most cases.
Deleted User - 60107
Guest
An expansion is 5x5, so a building that is 6x4, or 4x6, simply can NOT fit on a single expansion. You will need a second expansion next to it, no matter what. Yes, the Bellspire/Lighthouse takes just 24 squares, so it will leave over half of those two expansions free for other stuff, but that still does not change the fact that it requires you to have more than one expansion available.
I'll leave the rest to someone with more free time to do the calculations, but you are proably right that the Mountain Halls are better.
Dony
King of Bugs
even if they could i would strongly recommend to wait till next guest race to build any productions
Ainor
Well-Known Member
of course I know (you are right about population/culture, not about supplies) , but I not have so much need for goods and the great bell is no longer convenient. I prefer occupy this space in another way, third orc railly point for example, or an extra willow on the next chapter...Are you forgetting that your level 15 gems also needs pop, supplies, and culture to run? How much space is that? You can't compare 2 buildings without all of the information.
Once you add in roads and top up that pop/supplies/culture you are looking at close to 6 expansions or 150 squares for that extra gem factory.
now compare your 1 expansion Bellspire vs a 6 expansion gem factory.
Don't forget that your BS gets better and better when you level it without taking any more space.
The +30% longer boosts from your FS might be useful too.
edit: Almost forgot, adding another gem, 2 workshops, and 4 residences from scratch will cost how much, and take how long?
I'm not saying the BS is better, just that your simple comparison was missing a lot of information.
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DeletedUser1596
Guest
I don't undertand the math behind this decision. Acording to shoggy's calculations: 150 squares per factory which seems all right to me, divided by 2 (Bell produces +-1/2 goods per day compared to factory 9h9h3h), plus motivation bonus which in my experience provides at least as much culture as 2 heavy-duty culture buildings (I'm receiving cca 25 motivations per day).
Occupying AW's space with a willow is either miscalculated move or an overdramatic way to show how much you dislike the change. Given its size, the Bell is still fairly powerful factory/cultural building.
DeletedUser1657
Guest
Yep and the time it takes to get the 3 chests to reach max boost is a huge time saver
Sir Squirrel
Well-Known Member
The biggest down fall isn't the goods lost, but the help that won't be given to the new players on the map, as there isn't any motivation to do any more then fellowship and players that helped you.
DeletedUser1596
Guest
True, but are motivations as necessary as they used to be when Elvenar started? Remember when you ran out of supplies and had to cycle the quests? Today we can tripple the supply production with a single spell, or fill the supply/coin bar instantly with a blessing. We had to make coins and hammer for all those expensive cultural buildings.. today you can win 10 premium-like buildings in a single event. Spells and relics are raining down from tournaments, if you want them to. If you start a new city now, I bet you can get your first AW at least half a year earlier then before.
As the game evolves, some old mechanics are becoming less vital. Today a motivation is more of a nice gesture than a boost to your production.
Ruffen
Member
I do not play other games, but wonder about this. Will the development of games be worse in other games? Since I started this game, on another server, it has become more expensive. The expansions became more expensive and it is more difficult to build cities now than when I began. The merchant has become worse. Then we got a lift with the old wonders and it became more exciting to build them. Now they remove one of the best benefits. I can not tolerate more bad developments.
The best thing about this is that no one answers, no one defends the changes and developers hiding behind some volunteers who will help us players. ?????
The best thing about this is that no one answers, no one defends the changes and developers hiding behind some volunteers who will help us players. ?????
DeletedUser1657
Guest
From my experience of starting new worlds this was always the case. I would be extremely lucky in a new town if 1 or 2 people visited me and that was prior to AW's in some cases, post AW's and post AW buff. I have noticed no difference in visits from existing players. I receive neighbourhood visits generally only after I visit whether it is a new town or not and not always then.
The thing that will likely only make a difference in terms of visits is a nice big button saying visit all
which automatically visits every fellowship member and neighbour in one click. Even then I bet not everyone would use it
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ALdbeign
Well-Known Member
While no longer interested in a done deed given that INNO devs have no respect for our opinions once their minds are made up...
Soggy is right, 24=24... the very thing that challenges us in this game is rearranging buildings... if you feel 6x4requires 2 expansions then you arent doing it right
Deleted User - 60107
Guest
I can't tell if you're joking, or just missing my point... No matter how you rearrange you city you simply can't fit a 6x4 or 4x6 building on a 5x5 space, so you will need to use parts of 2 adjacent expansions (even if we ignore the road requirement). The fact that you can use the rest of said expansions for other buildings is irrelevant.Soggy is right, 24=24... the very thing that challenges us in this game is rearranging buildings... if you feel 6x4requires 2 expansions then you arent doing it right
SoggyShorts
Well-Known Member
But no one has just 1 expansion to work with. Even a player who starts a city today already has 6 expansions during the tutorial. I would say that the buildings orientation of 4x6 is what's irrelevant, and only the number of squares is what matters.
Jackluyt
Well-Known Member
I have three points to add to the debate:
1. The Crystal Lighthouse / Bell spire is still a good Wonder, for its boost of neighbor help - it is just not as good as it used to be;
2. This is not the first time that the design team have down-valued a game element. (For example: Down-valuing the prizes in the last Event was explained by Timon thus - he said the previous event they made the prizes too good, so they had adjusted them down again.)
Why do they do this?
It causes immense player dissatisfaction to be given something - and then to have it taken away again;
3. Why not give us extra Treasure Chests?
Three basic like now, and then one for every x amount of visits. That is the perfect solution! Because then you will get extra goods directly in proportion to the number of times you visit - and we will be back where we used to be and no one will have grounds to complain.
If the developers do not want to give away masses of prizes - there is simple solution to that too!
Re-structure the chest contents while adjusting the daily number - give lots of low value prizes liek 30 minute instants or coin rain 5%, relics, Enchantments - and add in a very valuable mystery chest at random every now and again, with something very special inside - like a 100% Instant, or a BluePrint.
That would:
1. Make the CL / BS rewards fair again and close to how they used to be;
2. Give people a reason to visit more
3. Make the daily visits more exciting!!
I hope that someone forwards this suggestion to the designers...
J
1. The Crystal Lighthouse / Bell spire is still a good Wonder, for its boost of neighbor help - it is just not as good as it used to be;
2. This is not the first time that the design team have down-valued a game element. (For example: Down-valuing the prizes in the last Event was explained by Timon thus - he said the previous event they made the prizes too good, so they had adjusted them down again.)
Why do they do this?
It causes immense player dissatisfaction to be given something - and then to have it taken away again;
3. Why not give us extra Treasure Chests?
Three basic like now, and then one for every x amount of visits. That is the perfect solution! Because then you will get extra goods directly in proportion to the number of times you visit - and we will be back where we used to be and no one will have grounds to complain.
If the developers do not want to give away masses of prizes - there is simple solution to that too!
Re-structure the chest contents while adjusting the daily number - give lots of low value prizes liek 30 minute instants or coin rain 5%, relics, Enchantments - and add in a very valuable mystery chest at random every now and again, with something very special inside - like a 100% Instant, or a BluePrint.
That would:
1. Make the CL / BS rewards fair again and close to how they used to be;
2. Give people a reason to visit more
3. Make the daily visits more exciting!!
I hope that someone forwards this suggestion to the designers...
J
DeletedUser1777
Guest
As in live we are on 1.39, I will add the todays given information in local forum here:
The MH has received a change, the maximum NH you can collect is limited to 20.
No matter if you would have enough capacity in you MH to store for example 25x help, you can only collect 20x. The rest is blown in the wind! Another silent change which will make people mad. What about players who just can login once a day? Even when only the FS is polishing your MH, you will lose coins.
The MH has received a change, the maximum NH you can collect is limited to 20.
No matter if you would have enough capacity in you MH to store for example 25x help, you can only collect 20x. The rest is blown in the wind! Another silent change which will make people mad. What about players who just can login once a day? Even when only the FS is polishing your MH, you will lose coins.
DeletedUser
Guest
Maximum NH on MH has always been 20x as far as I know.