Discussion Release Notes version 1.39

[DeletedUser1476]

Rebalancing the wonders is sure a great idea, and I hope it's not yet finished. Contribution rewards for example are heavily unbalanced between wonders. But nerfing the return on investment like this is really a horrible idea. It punishes active players and I can already see a sharp decline in aids from my neighbours (not my guild). The whole system of aiding people is time-consuming and tedious to begin with, but removing the only real incentive to still do it is now out of the window. This is a terribly dumb idea, but it fits with an equally poorly executed guild tournament. Not that I ever thought searching for chests or some event goods around my city was a great idea to begin with, but now I have another reason to hate being forced to do it.

 

[DeletedUser1628]

Inno have excelled themselves. the nerf on CL is unconscionable, my level 12 CL thanks for all contribution to get it there has just been rendered fairly useless. but the impact is much wider. at 405 goods per visit my 246 neighbours gave us (the FS) 99,630 goods how does one think I trade all boosted even FS trades, this gives me the goods to do the adventures and tourneys. the gold I receive at the same time 10 million get converted into fp which helps to raise AW's in the FS or tech advance. now no one will aid neighbourhood this means culture bonus will be affected a further loss to individuals the FS and ultimately the game please shout on the forum those that are on it this needs to be reversed for the sake of the game.

 

[SoggyShorts]

@Lissona Did you see @ketjatekos comparison of mountain halls vs lighthouse? It's much easier to look at those 2 as they both only need KP to upgrade.

Well you may be right and may not. What if INNO wants to finally do something about that terrible motivation system and they needed to adjust this wonder for the whole thing to make sense.

It's still poorly done. Why nerf the LH months before the possible motivation update?

 

[DeletedUser1596]

Why nerf the LH months before the possible motivation update?

Well yes. Releasing this change after the motivations update would make more sense, but I would wait with any hate-speech until we know the full story. Should they redesign the whole mot. system (in case of miracle) making it less time consuming to help a lot more people, this would make The Bell overpowered. But who knows. INNO should give more info if they want reasonable feedback from us. When they screw up your AW and give you no reason for that, then they get what they get.

 

[Lissona]

@SoggyShorts : I don't doubt that - after the AW change - there might have been better ways to spend KP.
But to say the Lighthouse at the moment isn't worth the space it requires and that it better would be teared down now is something I had to comment on. That's something that might be true for some people and their city, but nothing which should be communicated as a general fact on the forums.

 

[DeletedUser1942]

They said that they made this change to encourage players to do more Neighborly Help. With a limit of just 3 chests a day, which reduces the amount of daily goods so dramatically, why would anyone bother doing MORE Neighborly Help than they have to. Once the 3 chest are found, your rewards are drastically diminished, and it becomes somewhat pointless to continue. Inno, you should rethink this. You've had the opposite effect than what you were going for.

 

[SoggyShorts]

@SoggyShorts : I don't doubt that - after the AW change - there might have been better ways to spend KP.
But to say the Lighthouse at the moment isn't worth the space it requires and that it better would be teared down now is something I had to comment on. That's something that might be true for some people and their city, but nothing which should be communicated as a general fact on the forums.

Quite right. I was looking at it from the perspective of a player that has nothing and is deciding what to add to their city.

They said that they made this change to encourage players to do more Neighborly Help. With a limit of just 3 chests a day, which reduces the amount of daily goods so dramatically, why would anyone bother doing MORE Neighborly Help than they have to. Once the 3 chest are found, your rewards are drastically diminished, and it becomes somewhat pointless to continue. Inno, you should rethink this. You've had the opposite effect than what you were going for.

It's possible that they are right, but with a terrible choice in methodology for determining the impact.

Maybe of all players on all servers the "average" player does not do enough visits per day to get 3 chests, so by increasing the reward for finding chests they are hoping this changes.

The difference is that most players that we call "active" don't even consider those who log in a couple times a week as "players" at all, or at least should not be considered when taking averages or statistics. For us it is clear that a city which hasn't logged in in 6 months shouldn't be used when looking at how many visits the "average" player makes. Same goes for 4 months, 2 months etc. until we cross a line where what we think they should count, which is probably different than what inno thinks should count.
This is assuming that inno didn't do something quite as bad as "There are 1 million cities and there were 4 million visits, therefore the average is 4"

 

[DeletedUser1906]

Maybe Inno was only accounting for FS's. For my smaller city 63 goods from my lvl 3 Crystal Lighthouse x 24 members of my FS = 1512 in goods. With their new system 63x10= 630x3 chests = 1890...so I would fall into that more category...IF no neighbors were counted. In my larger city my lvl 6 Crystal Lighthouse gives me 150 goods x 24 FS members = 3600 goods per day. With new system... 150x10=1500 x 3 chests = 4500 goods.

If we only helped members of our FS and had a crystal lighthouse then the numbers would be similar to the new system numbers.

Increase the NUMBER of chests we can get from visits and this new system might work.

 

[DeletedUser724]

Maybe Inno was only accounting for FS's. For my smaller city 63 goods from my lvl 3 Crystal Lighthouse x 24 members of my FS = 1512 in goods. With their new system 63x10= 630x3 chests = 1890...so I would fall into that more category...IF no neighbors were counted. In my larger city my lvl 6 Crystal Lighthouse gives me 150 goods x 24 FS members = 3600 goods per day. With new system... 150x10=1500 x 3 chests = 4500 goods.

If we only helped members of our FS and had a crystal lighthouse then the numbers would be similar to the new system numbers.

Increase the NUMBER of chests we can get from visits and this new system might work.

Your calculation is mis-leading. If you start visit hoods first instead of fellowship, you will still get 3 chest in your hoods.
Chests pop up related with your visit ...not related with your fellowship or hoods. When 24 hour count down end, when you visit, no matter it is your fellowship or hoods, it will fall...if you do not collect ( or cannot find it ), chest is still pop up in your further visit until u collect 3 chests < if that city has a chest, u miss it, re-enter that city, chest will gone ...but if you only collect 2 chest, the remaining chest will still pop up in further visit >

The problem is not on your fellowship. It is NH that Inno mentioned. NH mean Neighbourhood or Neighbourhood Help...that is to say ..exclude your fellowship members
if you have 100 hoods, no matter they visit you or not. you will get 63X100 hoods = 6,300 goods instead of 3 chest X 630= 1,890

Please look at the statement at release notes ( see below )
So why do this? Simple because now, this system will be easier to balance and track on our side.

easier to balance and track on our side.
I follow Inno advice and I already stop any further visit unless those hoods carry a golden hand in notication ( limit to 10 pages )
it is now greatly reduced Inno work-loads
As no more NH, no need to check on Inno's side and Inno is now easier to do balance as it is a 0... (player side ...go to hell)

Please obey Inno wish, help them get easier to balance and track
just stop visit to your hoods

That is what Inno ask us to make constructive advice (Stop NH), help inno to do balance and track, Do not overload Inno, give them lesser work to do

 

[Sir Squirrel]

Oh man this is going to get crazy over on the live forums when it gets there. I think I am going to take a break from the forums for a week or so. I feel sorry for all the volunteer mods and support people over there. (and here too!)

 

[DeletedUser724]

My great bell give me 424 goods in past when I visit player
I have around 253 hoods ( I just count it )

424 x 253 = 107,272 goods
3 chests is 4240x3= 12,720
loss in goods due to revisde Great-bell = 107272-12720 = 94550

I have a net loss of 94,550 daily goods which i used to do trade to exchange non-boosted goods, negotiation in tournament, contential map negotiation and fellowship adventures

Most player seems do not understand the issues
player get lesser goods
they cannot do negotiation and exchange as b4.... it means all activities ( tournament, FA, exchange...) are going down and eventually elvenar become a hard game to play...then more more player goes inactive due to hardness

my level 23 plank factory give me 2425 goods every 3 hour, each day I can collect 6 times < u just need login in proper time 8am, 11am, 2pm, 5 pm, 8pm, 11 pm) , so daily collect is 2425x6= 14,550
Just 1 plank factory is already exceed the amount of 3 chests
this means the Great Bell is a nearly useless buildings ( in terms of goods) as the space it occupied can be replaced by a goods-building

 

[DeletedUser880]

Not seeing a lot of positive comments here on the latest change to AWs - a reaction from one of the moderators would be helpful - are our thoughts being ignored or are the changes really having the practical effect which the developers are intending.

Please Inno - this change is blatantly flawed and needs to be withdrawn.

Rebalancing may need to happen but not at the cost of making neighbourhood visits redundant and reducing the activity levels of a large number of really active and dedicated players throughout many aspects of the game.

A rethink on this is essential!! Please, PLEASE confirm that this is being addressed.

 

[DeletedUser1596]

I have around 253 hoods ( I just count it )

424 x 253 = 107,272 goods

If you help 253 people every day, you don't deserve 100k goods, but a Nobel Prize for patience.
I didn't do the math myself, so I'll just stick to your numbers. A daily collect of oyur planck factory is 14k, but you are a supercollecter Ordinary people do 9h+9h+3h or 1d, which means that the total collect won't exceed 10k. If you have about 10 factories in your city, then total daily collect is 100k (very, very rough numbers), which is about the same number as that from your Bell/Lhouse. In that case, the AW has the same daily output as my whole city and does not need any primary resources.

Although your dedication to the game is admirable, you must admit, that in your hands the AW is OVERPOWERED AS HELL.

 

[DeletedUser724]

If you help 253 people every day, you don't deserve 100k goods, but a Nobel Prize for patience.
I didn't do the math myself, so I'll just stick to your numbers. A daily collect of oyur planck factory is 14k, but you are a supercollecter Ordinary people do 9h+9h+3h or 1d, which means that the total collect won't exceed 10k. If you have about 10 factories in your city, then total daily collect is 100k (very, very rough numbers), which is about the same number as that from your Bell/Lhouse. In that case, the AW has the same daily output as my whole city and does not need any primary resources.

Although your dedication to the game is admirable, you must admit, that in your hands the AW is OVERPOWERED AS HELL.

I am retired
each day, i am online for 16 hours, I only take break while i have my meals and also some routine exercise
3-hour collection is not a big trouble for us...just a "do login and logout a few minutes in correct timing"

I suppose
your 9 hour (sleep ), 9 hour (work, study), 3 hour (online) is for working and studying group
those contain "many 3 hours" are for those non-working and non-studying group
they are more active player in this game as they consump more time than your group

all my storage of goods exceed 1 million..... so what.... I just do not want to spend
To me, I just find it is unfair to those who visit hoods to get goods, they are the big loser
my message just try to point out...u do not need to spend time to visit your hoods

if you are doing 9 hour, 9 hour and 3 hour
your lost in daily goods collection should be much much larger as you lost those goods while visiting your hoods

 

[DeletedUser607]

If you help 253 people every day, you don't deserve 100k goods, but a Nobel Prize for patience.
I didn't do the math myself, so I'll just stick to your numbers. A daily collect of oyur planck factory is 14k, but you are a supercollecter Ordinary people do 9h+9h+3h or 1d, which means that the total collect won't exceed 10k. If you have about 10 factories in your city, then total daily collect is 100k (very, very rough numbers), which is about the same number as that from your Bell/Lhouse. In that case, the AW has the same daily output as my whole city and does not need any primary resources.

Although your dedication to the game is admirable, you must admit, that in your hands the AW is OVERPOWERED AS HELL.

sure, but you don't need to post a pic of yourself in a shower

 

[DeletedUser2203]

I am really frustrated and upset about your next "plans". You took away the merchant, now it is the CT. Are you thinking of ending the game by forcing gamers out?

 

[lika1961]

"Although your dedication to the game is admirable, you must admit, that in your hands the AW is OVERPOWERED AS HELL."

And that seems to be part of the problem. I know quite a few players who do visiting on that scale and if they want to put in so much extra effort, why should they not get significant rewards? They richly deserve it.

The fact that Inno does not really anticipate how certain elements of the game will develop over time does not make it acceptable to keep shooting long-term players in the foot. The changes made to this AW is shooting most people who have one in the foot. No clever words or flimsy math will make that acceptable.

 

[Ruffen]

The team says these:
Some may say they would have fewer reasons to do NH, but in fact, the majority of players is not doing NH for these rewards, but to actually help their fellowship members and neighbors.

We do want NH to be more and more convenient to perform in the future (see the mobile system). And we think that this is the most important element to push people to perform Neighborly help and make sure it's as easy convenient as people.

I can`t understand... why give us less for NH... and want more NH??? If you want more NH, give us more reward...not less...It`s simple..I will give less NH, because I don`t need just money. We have lost one member in the fellowship, because he being angry. You can`t do these!!

 

[SoggyShorts]

@Ruffen
Did you participate in the survey Inno conducted asking players what their primary motivation is for doing visits?
No, you didn't, because there wasn't one- they just pulled that from their ass.

 

[edeba]

I registered for beta and forum because of what I read here on this topic.

My reaction is, "Are you totally off the wall nuts to think this reasonable in any sense!" This entirely a "bait and switch," and unacceptable and unreasonable.

People have built up and invested in their crystal lighthouse because of what it does. Regardless of benefit, there are people that do not take advantage of it and people who do should not be penalized because of that.

Having said that, there is a huge difference based on ability to play, working versus retired, and also a huge difference based on size of map.

If this idea was implement for 10 chests, with say a 40% chance in any visit until the 10 are reached, that would give everyone the opportunity to benefit the equivalent of 100 visits in terms of goods from 10 chests. At the same time also have goods for visits as it is, but cut it in half. The break even would be for a player with 200 cities opened on their map and the benefit to players with very large maps would be reduced, so say 300 cities the net benefit would be the same as 250 cities before. Any reduction is in usefulness is stinky, but this is in a range of reasonable.

This would also encourage people to visit their fellowship and at least some of their map and it would fit in with time restraints of working people. The ratio of goods for visiting say 25 out of 200 versus 200 out of 200 would be that now instead of just 25 they would get equivalent to 112.5 visits, so instead of an 8 fold difference, there is an under 2 fold difference.

3 chests, equivalent to 30 visits when you've been say visiting 300 is a reduction of benefit to only 10% of what it was. People who chose this AW over others are being drastically penalized.

My suggestion would mean they would still get 83% of what they were getting.

People who only visit their fellowship would get 4.5 times more benefit.

My guess is that a lot of people would reduce the amount of their map with what I've suggested because it is a lot of work for half the resources.

I completely agree that people who invest time into their game deserve everything they get.

And that seems to be part of the problem. I know quite a few players who do visiting on that scale and if they want to put in so much extra effort, why should they not get significant rewards? They richly deserve it.