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Discussion Release Notes version 1.100

TomatoeHu

Well-Known Member
@Marindor..... i have a hard time believing anything can be down simultaneously in elvenar, but its a wonderful concept. Maybe one day all departments will start organizing and working together for a seamless product - that certainly isnt the case so far. I mean, how does a game launch a second platform and wait years to make it work the same as its first platform ?! Simultaneously would have meant releasing a functional replica of the original dont you think? The two platforms should be working together and at the same time. Phhhffffffftt. Thats me not holding my breathe.
 

krzysztof56

Active Member
@Marindor..... i have a hard time believing anything can be down simultaneously in elvenar, but its a wonderful concept. Maybe one day all departments will start organizing and working together for a seamless product - that certainly isnt the case so far. I mean, how does a game launch a second platform and wait years to make it work the same as its first platform ?! Simultaneously would have meant releasing a functional replica of the original dont you think? The two platforms should be working together and at the same time. Phhhffffffftt. Thats me not holding my breathe.
But that solution has one great disadvantage - if platfrom was shut down for any technical problem - both mobile and PC version won't work. If they're separated, there's a big chance that at least one of them will work during maintenance.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
@Marindor..... i have a hard time believing anything can be down simultaneously in elvenar, but its a wonderful concept. Maybe one day all departments will start organizing and working together for a seamless product - that certainly isnt the case so far. I mean, how does a game launch a second platform and wait years to make it work the same as its first platform ?! Simultaneously would have meant releasing a functional replica of the original dont you think? The two platforms should be working together and at the same time. Phhhffffffftt. Thats me not holding my breathe.
Maybe because the aren't blizzard, maybe the can't afford unlimited resources to throw at it, and maybe they like to be a good company to there employees?
Yes they could thrown money at it, hiring a lot of people to rush it's completion and, made the app work 100% in a short period of time.
Then they would fire all those people as they are no longer needed and buisness wise you don't want to keep a lot of people you don't have work for.
When issues arrise in the future no one has the knowledge to quickly and cheaply change those parts as you fired all those people.

Instead they choose a smaller team, assururing those people they actually have a future with the company, choose for a gradual rollout and be more stable in the long run. those people know they have to work at that project for years and will be less likely for shoddy work as they have to deal with it in the long run.
Making it cheaper for the company and better for them to work on.
 

justpeeking

Well-Known Member
@Dony Anyway, any of above written doesn't change the fact, that with the change they increased difficulty of Wholesaler quests four times compared to previous state.
And while I'll probably manage (f.e. by crafting more instants thx. to more catalysts surplus from 3 libraries instead of 2), it can become serious problem for newer players without these possibilities.
Absolutely agree! This change won't effect me in my live city, but here in beta where my city is still in chapter 3, it will be a great pain. IG and seasoned players, who comment here the most easily forget how the game is in the early stages.
As explained in our Release Notes, quests that require only Wholesaler trades will have their required amounts halved.
@Marindor, please elaborate how exactly an 8x raise is compensated by a 2x decrease?!
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Absolutely agree! This change won't effect me in my live city, but here in beta where my city is still in chapter 3, it will be a great pain. IG and seasoned players, who comment here the most easily forget how the game is in the early stages.

@Marindor, please elaborate how exactly an 8x raise is compensated by a 2x decrease?!
Not really,
If you need the wholesaler, find a new fellowship.
Last october I started a new account, on a brand new world with all the new world problems that come with it (like no stock of goods whatsoever)
I am unlucky to have boosted goods everyone seem to have, yet I havent needed the wholesaler once, other than to make room for more coins / supplies because an event/fa quest asked me to collect thoseand my coffers where full.

I really don't care what they do with the wholesaler. it could exist, it could not, I don't care.
 

justpeeking

Well-Known Member
Not really,
If you need the wholesaler, find a new fellowship.
Last october I started a new account, on a brand new world with all the new world problems that come with it (like no stock of goods whatsoever)
I am unlucky to have boosted goods everyone seem to have, yet I havent needed the wholesaler once, other than to make room for more coins / supplies because an event/fa quest asked me to collect thoseand my coffers where full.

I really don't care what they do with the wholesaler. it could exist, it could not, I don't care.
You are missing the point! We are talking about quest during event which force players to use the wholesaler! These has nothing to do with natural game play for the exact reason you are talking about. Why we are asked to buy 9x-12x from a wholesaler, which is now generously (sarcasm alert!) lowered to 5x-6x per quest for the first place?! And due to the faulty nature of unlimited quest these can be repeated so many times within a short period of quest. With the changes they made in the wholesaler this situation can cause serious effect on event completion for small players.
Please read and understand carefully and only comment afterward. Otherwise you make a false impression to the mods and IG, that you agree that raising the purchase price by 8x in wholesaler is indeed compensated by halving the number we must buy from the wholesaler per quest.
Do you really???
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
Well, using example from announcement (44k/T1 176k/T2 704k/T3 => 380k/Tany) you will need only x1.5 more supplies/coins to make 6 wholesale trades now compared to 12 trades before that change if you use only coins or only supplies. Starting from 2 such quests per day you will pay even less than before, but only if you use only one currency for that trades. If you use both supplies and coins - you will pay much more (x2.7 for the first occurrence of that quest and end up with something like x1.2 for 5 quests per day, which is insane and never happens).
I'd say fair reduction should be not /2, but /3 or so.
 

LazyTony

Active Member
The best UX thing that can happen without game change is adding hotkeys both for troop type (lm/lr/ma/hm/hr) and barrack type (barracks/camp/grounds) or having separate hotkeys for all kinds of units + being able to close stuff like "awesome" window by keyboard too...
This, and also a x5 button beneath each troop type to add 5 squads of the same type with one click.
 

justpeeking

Well-Known Member
Well, using example from announcement (44k/T1 176k/T2 704k/T3 => 380k/Tany) you will need only x1.5 more supplies/coins to make 6 wholesale trades now compared to 12 trades before that change if you use only coins or only supplies. Starting from 2 such quests per day you will pay even less than before, but only if you use only one currency for that trades. If you use both supplies and coins - you will pay much more (x2.7 for the first occurrence of that quest and end up with something like x1.2 for 5 quests per day, which is insane and never happens).
I'd say fair reduction should be not /2, but /3 or so.
Well, what the announcement do not mention is that the now base price is 10% of your MH cap! Since price is still increased by 50%, you can not make more then 4 purchase with coin (or supplies) even if your storage was completely full. This was 9 purchases of t1 before the changes.
So yes, minimum a /3 cut is needed.

And while you are right that 5 quests per day is hardly ever happened, but we kow that q1,q2,q1,q2,q1 repeat is a standard. If "WS trade" is q1 and "buy 10+ KP" is q2 than that is a show stopper for a small player even with /3 cut.

And on top of those, the announcement do mention: "The Wholesaler is intended to be mostly a last resort..."
How does 5-6x or even 3-4x of WS trade per quest (not one day, because that can be 9-18 or more!) is in line with that game concept?

Considering this statement in the announcement maximum 1-2x WS trade per quest is really the fair reduction.
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
Well, what the announcement do not mention is that the now base price is 10% of your MH cap! Since price is still increased by 50%, you can not make more then 4 purchase with coin (or supplies) even if your storage was completely full. This was 9 purchases of t1 before the changes.
You can make 6 purchases with the base 10% MH price, since all 6 goods now cost the same at start.
 

Marindor

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
Hi guys,

Besides your feedback about the quests that ask for only Wholesalers deals getting harder (which has already been forwarded), what are your other thoughts about the change in general?
 

Dony

King of Bugs
Regarding sentient goods, we now get a bit more then before, thats good, and if 10% proves to be too much for coin/supply, they can reduce it to 5% or 7%
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
what are your other thoughts about the change in general?
Well, actualy nothing, since I don't use that feature outside the quests.
I don't have resources for that anyway.
I'm burning my coins in Spire negotiating and KPs buying.
And my supplies are burnt with army hiring.
And the rest, well we have market for goods trading with much better ratios than with the Wholesaler.
 

justpeeking

Well-Known Member
You can make 6 purchases with the base 10% MH price, since all 6 goods now cost the same at start.
Again, not considering small players.
I am just before opening the t3 boost, so I can buy only 4 at base price. Somebody who is just starting the game and get into an event shortly after may not even have t2 boost, so they can buy only 2 at base price. Those people need to be nurtured, otherwise they quit and game will die with them.

Besides your feedback about the quests that ask for only Wholesalers deals getting harder (which has already been forwarded), what are your other thoughts about the change in general?
Thanks for forwarding our feedback.
Generally I welcome that part of the change which reflect the change of the star system. It is good that for the same amount you get 2,25x t1 vs 1,5x t2 vs 1x t3. It is also good that this is clearly visible, since the base price is the same at all levels (and not vice verse as before).
On the other hand I rather use WS to burn money or supply (mostly when I do NH) when my MH is full, rather than to gain material. I rarely purchased anything, but t1, because the base price was higher than the space I needed to finish NH in one run. For this 10% of MH space is too steep. However I understand the logic presented in announcement and I can agree that the amount of goods you gained from one purchase was marginal.
I would say that 5% could be a better start point to serve as a compromise between these two point of you.
But I have no sense how many people use WS at all, how many of them use for burning coin/supply and how many of then use it as a source of goods.
 

iDavis

Well-Known Member
I use wholesaler only in the following 2 situations:
1. Event quest - here the only goal is to complete a quest;
2. Full storage of coins / supplies - here the only goal is to lower my amount of these resources (to be able to collect productions or similar).

So in none of these is cost / reward ratio important for me, beacuse all of that situations are done regardless of it.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
The wholesaler is a 365 day tool. The problem brought up about the wholesaler quests in events is an infrequent problem and has been vastly overstated in terms of it being a problem.

At higher levels you have 4 pages, or 24 choices with the wholesaler for events. Previously t2 and t3 goods were very expensive with supplies or coin. I think t2 is less than half the previous prices and t3 is now close to 1/6th the previous price, so all goods are fair prices for coins or supplies now and that triples options at entry price.

I think the 1/10th of supplies/coins cap was very well thought out and very good choice.

The wholesaler quest is a problem for low level accounts that might only have 2 pages open or they might have the 3rd page open but their resources are too restricted to consider it. Those wholesaler quests should be halved for early chapter players, say up to chapter 5.
 

TomatoeHu

Well-Known Member
Maybe because the aren't blizzard, maybe the can't afford unlimited resources to throw at it, and maybe they like to be a good company to there employees?
Yes they could thrown money at it, hiring a lot of people to rush it's completion and, made the app work 100% in a short period of time.
Then they would fire all those people as they are no longer needed and buisness wise you don't want to keep a lot of people you don't have work for.
When issues arrise in the future no one has the knowledge to quickly and cheaply change those parts as you fired all those people.

Instead they choose a smaller team, assururing those people they actually have a future with the company, choose for a gradual rollout and be more stable in the long run. those people know they have to work at that project for years and will be less likely for shoddy work as they have to deal with it in the long run.
Making it cheaper for the company and better for them to work on.
1.1 billion dollars says inno could get their ducks in a row. Concerns of hiring and firing! This struggling company must make enough to delegate important tasks, they contract out their work so its not even a question of hiring and firing but prioritizing and focusing on a better mobile version by emailing a directive to get it done.

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I'm certain everyone knows how to use the internet. Inno makes enough money. i will accept blind love and defensive replies to that they dont make enough to fix their products. Spew all the "what If" scenarios and still, What hasnt worked for any game developer, ever, is to release a product before a product is ready. if wonder donations are not coming to mobile players, if fellowship recruiting to search and invite isnt implemented, these two platforms should never even communicate. Mobile should play with mobile and browser with browser players. Mix the two when they're the same game.

Whatever makes players feel better about why wonders are not getting fixed for mobile players, buy some diamonds if you think inno needs some extra funding..... But dont tell me they need to be Blizzard to address something that should have been fixed before a wholesaler update, before releasing a mobile platform, when wonders are such a Major part of the game. Delete your wonders if you dont agree with me. all those players have a huge disadvantage every day they play without the help of their fellowship and neighbors. Every hour KP is not being shared to them. How is elvenar even the same game without the ability to level up wonders with help. Delete your swap threads, delete your aw swap programs. Then its fair, and i will stop advocating for them.