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Discussion Release Notes version 1.100

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
@edeba The problem with this wholesaler's change is, that it now takes 10% of your max. coin/tool capacity. With one quest you have to use 60% of your max. coins or tools (or 30% of each).
With getting this quest 3x per day, you use 100% of your coins & tools (actualy even more, with the rising price).
We don't have infinite supply of coin rains & tools rains.
Some players might get into serious tools/coins shortage because of this change.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
This had a vote and I worked my butt off encouraging people from live to get onto beta and support it and I know people that did do that and the vote passed but then the vote was dismissed as the new accounts characterized as duplicate or cheat accounts. Some people may have done that, but I was genuinely left totally disillusioned with the outcome of really encouraging people that are frustrated for the reasons you give to try and do anything about it.

Regardless of if people did that, there was a vast majority that did want that change and it was dismissed. They have this rule that 80% need to vote positive for the idea to be forwarded to the developers when an idea goes to a poll. I think the vote was over 75% without the new accounts which were all dismissed as questionable accounts. I just know that I worked on recruiting votes from the live world and if anything, I backed off because I thought the vote was affirmative.

But, I used to love the tournament and now I don't because it is grossly click intensive and the clicks go slower because the game is bigger, so you need triple the clicks from when if first started and the speed is probably 1/3rd of what it used to be so you are looking at the range of 10 times the time commitment. I used to be able to do a round on my lunch break, which included making my lunch and walking to and from work.

One thing, I will never waste my time trying to support a positive game change again. It is a waste of time.
No, no, no leave the tournaments alone, haven't you guys learned anything in the past years?
The second the touch it, you do never het what you want and always end up worse then you started.

If you do not want to spend the time on it, then don't do that many provinces. please dont ask for a 1 click finish tournament button. be more reasonable

If you want changes think in ways not to reduce the amount of encounters, but the amount of clicks. ask for stuff like (a fixed) version of how the mobile version hops from province to province, look in ways to reduce the amount of kliks without changing anything "gamewise", but don't ask for a redesign. I dont wanna go back to 15 provinces. i like the amount of KP and other goodies I can aquire in the tournaments right now
 

Maillie

Well-Known Member
Making the tournaments less clicky and 4x as difficult was what the problem was with the original Spire. It was too difficult to be fun and the troops were gone in seconds. I remember people swearing they'd never try the thing again. I'm hoping that the tournament gets left alone, not made more difficult to avoid clicks. Just my opinion.
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
stuff like (a fixed) version of how the mobile version hops from province to province
I hate this, as it always try to move to the province I don't want to take. => same clicks + lags on moving.

The best UX thing that can happen without game change is adding hotkeys both for troop type (lm/lr/ma/hm/hr) and barrack type (barracks/camp/grounds) or having separate hotkeys for all kinds of units + being able to close stuff like "awesome" window by keyboard too...

Making the tournaments less clicky and 4x as difficult
Nobody wants it to be more difficult (and it shouldn't, if implemented properly).
People just scared that Inno can't make any change without making things worse...
 
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CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
I hate this, as it always try to move to the province I don't want to take. => same clicks + lags on moving.

The best UX thing that can happen without game change is adding hotkeys both for troop type (lm/lr/ma/hm/hr) and barrack type (barracks/camp/grounds) or having separate hotkeys for all kinds of units + being able to close stuff like "awesome" window by keyboard too...
Fair enough, I just wanted to point out options other than to touch the actual tournaments.

Nobody wants it to be more difficult (and it shouldn't, if implemented properly).
People just scared that Inno can't make any change without making things worse...
Well if a change is made you can bet it will be in the range similar to the spire, we all know how random the results from the AI can be. as a heavy tournament player I actually sometimes use suboptimal units just so I can work around this AI issue and create more stable results from where I can better predict the outcome.
It will also be tough to "implement it properly", lets ignore my issues with autolosses, dont forget that these are way more prevalent with newbies who are still trying to figure things out unlike us veterans
You can't avoid autolosses, but the impact of them with be multiplied hitting those players way way way harder than me for example.

As @Maillie very well noted the initial response of players to the spire I don't want the same issue at tournaments.
 

pompeywolf

Well-Known Member
What about instead of moving to the next province, when you open the tournament page it opens on the page with the lowest numbered available province. This would reduce some annoying clicking to navigate though
 

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
What about instead of moving to the next province, when you open the tournament page it opens on the page with the lowest numbered available province. This would reduce some annoying clicking to navigate though
but what if I as a player prefer doing the highest available province first? since that would kill most of my army, it makes sense to do those first and finish with province 1. If you do it other way around, you might run out of troops and cant finish the last provinces anymore.

You see, there's no real easy solution, always someone will be unhappy
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
I don't ever remember getting it 3 times in a day.

But, it seems to me that you can use goods as well.

This is drastically improving the wholesaler and I disagree with drastically reducing this improvement (to half) because I don't agree that expecting to do that quest 3 times in a day is a reasonable expectation.

Having a better wholesaler 365 days a year and slowing down through the quests or adjusting the quests is a way better idea.


@edeba The problem with this wholesaler's change is, that it now takes 10% of your max. coin/tool capacity. With one quest you have to use 60% of your max. coins or tools (or 30% of each).
With getting this quest 3x per day, you use 100% of your coins & tools (actualy even more, with the rising price).
We don't have infinite supply of coin rains & tools rains.
Some players might get into serious tools/coins shortage because of this change.
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
You can't avoid autolosses, but the impact of them with be multiplied hitting those players way way way harder than me for example.
If there is proper scale between 4x and 1x fights, it can be easily selected by user itself in game options. Those who want it to be faster would enable it, those who want more control on random - disable...
What about instead of moving to the next province, when you open the tournament page it opens on the page with the lowest numbered available province. This would reduce some annoying clicking to navigate though
This would be same annoying. I don't want to waste resources on lowest numbered available province if I won't get KP from it.
 

iDavis

Well-Known Member
@Heymrdiedier indeed, another scenario is me - I'm having 100% cooldown between tournament rounds, so am clearing round by round, instead of province by province.
Ideal solution would be more of these available in settings and player could just choose one of them, but that would be, of course, more difficult to implement.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
I don't ever remember getting it 3 times in a day.
I did get it 2 to 3 times per day several times during the winter event.

But, it seems to me that you can use goods as well.
Yeah, back to pay goods quests. Around 100K T3 (more for T2 and T1) goods lost with each quest. No thanks.

This is drastically improving the wholesaler and I disagree with drastically reducing this improvement (to half) because I don't agree that expecting to do that quest 3 times in a day is a reasonable expectation.

Having a better wholesaler 365 days a year and slowing down through the quests or adjusting the quests is a way better idea.
I don't care about Wholesaler itself. For me the best solution would be never give us trade with wholesaler quests ever again, so I can never bother with Wholesaler again.
 

Dony

King of Bugs
or maybe use milions of spare coin and supply instants
i actually welcome wholesaler quests, the more the better
doing toolbox in your main workshop is much worse then paying that resource in wholesaler
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
@Dony Like I wrote, we don't have unlimited supply of them. And especialy my supply of Coin rains is getting lower with each Spire week despite I craft them in academy (those 50 & 100% ones if there are no military or pet food recipes).

And I'm not even talking about newer players with very limited or non-existent supply of them.
 

Dony

King of Bugs
i can manage doing spire all maps negotiation without using any instants, the cooldown between doors are enough to get all needed resources and i am not even using EE spells, which can do another enormous income of this resources
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
@Dony I don't - at least not always. When you have an unlucky day(s) and do bosses and semibosses with several (or more) tries, coins and supplies dissapear very quickly at the end of 2nd and in the 3rd floor. This usualy happens during last 2 days of Spire. This week it seems so far, that I will not need to use them - still at half coin bar and only 4 encounters remaining (after last week failure with the golem negotiation (10+ unsuccesfull tries), I have given up of trying the whole 3rd floor and returning to my previous 2,5 floors, but even frog can be sometimes very tricky, I remember doing it on my first try as well as using 10 tries (I never use diamonds for additional tries)).
And supplies can run from full bar to empty bar very quickly while using bears.
 

Dony

King of Bugs
i see this as a perfect example of strategy aspect of the game, where you need to calculate what is better and when, which is not a bad thing. my strategy for spire is i never use supplies, only on 3rd turn where other resources are disabled
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
@Dony Anyway, any of above written doesn't change the fact, that with the change they increased difficulty of Wholesaler quests four times compared to previous state.
And while I'll probably manage (f.e. by crafting more instants thx. to more catalysts surplus from 3 libraries instead of 2), it can become serious problem for newer players without these possibilities.
 

UlyssesBlue

Well-Known Member
I really like being able to see the full list of available chests in wonders. It's helpful not to have to go to some third party site every time I need this info. Not sure why it has to be donated to first though. It should be visible even on wonders that have not received any donations.