Discussion Fellowship Adventures

[SoggyShorts]

I like this idea, maybe 5 levels of difficulty in total, so map one has 3 paths difficulty rating 1, 2 and 3, map 2 the difficulty rating is 2, 3, and 4 and the last map difficulty rating 3, 4, and 5.
How you classify a difficulty rating is to be determined, but this is just the idea about how to structure the difficulty for each map.

Maybe I'm crazy, but it still seems to me like the FA already has 3 levels of difficulty:
1 stage,2 stages, or 3 stages = 3 levels of difficulty.
I wouldn't be against having 5 stages, and I'm certainly all for adding little rewards per spot on the map though.

 

[DeletedUser]

Right after FA ended chat also ended. Probably the chat server had just about enough of the FA as we have.

 

[Marindor]

It's my first fellowship adventure on beta. I notice that in the ranking the first 100 fellowships get a time booster reward. From the life game I learned it's only the first 50. Did you change the reward system or is it only für beta?

Requirements and rewards can be different in each FA

 

[Elderflower]

To begin with, keep in mind that I only play on the beta server. This is my main city. When I began playing, there was only a beta server, and I really don't have the time to manage more than one city. That means I might have a view more akin to players on main servers.

I run a fairly sized fellowship. We are at 20 right now, but the driving factor of our fellowship is to have a place for peoples who want to play casually to have a spot in the game, without having to worry too much about performance. Just to give you an idea, we usually grab around 4 box in the tournament, in spite of everyone being active.

That being said, I think that we, as players, have to keep in mind that it's normal to have a certain reward handed out to us for our hard work. I simply cannot expect, playing casually, to be able to obtain the best rewards in any give portion of the game, fellowship, tournament, name it, if I am not willing to put much effort in it.

I'm getting 4 boxes per tournament because I choose not to invest too much time on this, and I do not feel it is unfair. And quite frankly, if the fellowship adventures are going the tough event way, I simply won't participate anymore.

But I think the dev. should try not to forget about us who simply enjoy playing a bit on our lunch breaks and that's it. Create also small "easily" doable events, even if rewards are so so...

Since the elementals, I am slowly losing interest in the game because I am more and more feeling that this game is meant to be a time sink, rather than an enjoyable distraction.

I'm pretty much in the same position as you are. I only play on beta as I don't have time for more than one city. Our fellowship also is happy to have people who only play when they can rather than being competitive. We did play this FA and got as far as we could with only about one third of our members playing.
I'm also not sure about Elementals. I rather like the halflings but they did take a lot of space and it looks as if the Elementals will be even worse. Anyway I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
I do think it is good to have three different paths in the FAs with different levels of difficulty but also different rewards. My problem is that I can't always work out which is the easiest route. I suppose it would be too much to ask that they be clearly labelled as such.

 

[Dony]

Hi everyone,

Once again, thank you for your feedback on this FA round. Based on your feedback, we have decided to change the numbers of required relics for our Live version:

→ 50 relics becomes 30
→ 200 relics becomes 90
→ 500 relics becomes 200

This means that on Beta it won't be of much use to you for this round, but thanks to your feedback, thousands of players on our Live server will have a better experience in this FA round so thank you very much for that.

just in case it is missed from other sources, not all servers got this hotfix, we have old higher values on our live server

 

[Marindor]

That's not good. In that case, please contact your Live support team to get that fixed

 

[Calenmir]

Also a little bit more upfront information: We understand the need of a new system for the quests en we already have this planned (but as I explained before, this is not a small task). We are also investigating the possibilities for temporary solutions and how realistic they are. Of course, when we have more info on that, we will share it with with you

Thank you once again for providing us with your feedback and helping us make the game better!

Thanks Marindor. I think we all understand that they are 'working on it' - but that's been their mantra for far too long. What we are asking is that it stops becoming MORE tedious (by continuing to add more quests to cycle through) until that happens. The events continue to come around on 'some schedule' and each time we get more quests to cycle through. I don't know how many players would say to continue on 'inno's plan' or to 'wait until they overhaul the system' - but maybe it's time to ask the players which they would prefer to happen first on the FA event. Let the majority decide. Temp solutions sound good in theory, but in the long term they just don't work - they don't solve the problem of still having to cycle through quests. Why not just halt the events until they can make a permanent solution that most want?

If that also means overhauling the 'normal (non-declinable/declinable)' quest system (because you can't change events without also changing the normal quests - though I doubt anyone would complain about that) and that is what is causing the problem for them - then let them say so. In fact, would love to be able to select my declinable quests via a 'selection' - rather than scrolling through those. We're all just tired of the same old song and dance excuses - and that's really all they are. People will continue to spend money on this game - that's a given and maybe, JUST MAYBE, more money will be spent if you make overhauling the FA event a priority - because more players will be inclined to participate?? Well, that's just a guess.

 

[SoggyShorts]

maybe it's time to ask the players which they would prefer to happen first on the FA event. Let the majority decide. Temp solutions sound good in theory, but in the long term they just don't work - they don't solve the problem of still having to cycle through quests. Why not just halt the events until they can make a permanent solution that most want?

Back to my favourite analogy:
If you had a bar, and for some reason the beer was coming out warmer than the ideal temperature, would you stop selling beer until it was fixed?
If people were willing to keep buying the slightly warm beer, probably not.
Would you ask your customers to vote on it?
Also, probably not.

I don't like or agree with inno's aparent priorities either, but asking them to stop doing something that makes money is a hard sell.

 

[Calenmir]

The FA isn't their only source of revenue nor is it a daily source of revenue. So holding off bringing it around again until they make it easier to access the quests isn't likely to hurt their business. The beer, in your analogy, is like daily playing, it's what they serve everyday. Special events aren't daily.

 

[SoggyShorts]

The FA isn't their only source of revenue nor is it a daily source of revenue. So holding off bringing it around again until they make it easier to access the quests isn't likely to hurt their business. The beer, in your analogy, is like daily playing, it's what they serve everyday. Special events aren't daily.

They have said a few times that they will not hold off on events, so my guess is that events of all kinds generate additional revenue.
If they don't have another event handy that they can launch to replace the FA, then I understand why they would keep releasing them.

 

[Marindor]

@SoggyShorts is basically right. Events mean income and without that income, we can't offer the game on a free-to-play basis at all for you. So there's no "voting" needed. Yes, we know about the problems and we're solving them but we can't stop that income stream until that's done, because we offer the game on a free-to-play basis Overhauling the complete quest system does take a lot of time though, so in the mean time we are investigating if we can come up with a temporary solution until the complete overhaul is done

 

[DeletedUser1901]

I would gladly wait for the quest cycling to be fixed if we could more easily organize our Fellowship members during the adventure, and be able to execute a plan efficiently. Organization would lead to much less clicking and cycling to begin with, and could be a large part of any quest cycling solution for the devs. External resources should not be needed to make the adventure fun for our fs members; chaos is generally not fun.

 

[Deleted User - 12740]

@SoggyShorts is basically right. Events mean income and without that income, we can't offer the game on a free-to-play basis at all for you. So there's no "voting" needed. Yes, we know about the problems and we're solving them but we can't stop that income stream until that's done, because we offer the game on a free-to-play basis Overhauling the complete quest system does take a lot of time though, so in the mean time we are investigating if we can come up with a temporary solution until the complete overhaul is done

My suggestion for a temporary solution would be two changes:

1. When one of the FA quests has been finished, don't automatically give the next quest, just give the same quest again (this has been suggested many times).
2. Change the "Decline" button to a "Next Quest" button for the FA quests. When it is clicked, the current quest changes to the next one in the cycle, without closing the window.

With those two changes, it should be easy to turn in a quest multiple times, and then fast to cycle through the quests to the next quest one wants to do.

 

[MalpA]

or just give another checkbox with numbers from 1 to 9(or whatever) named repet " x" times ...and then we will need x-times more collectables,(after we change value from 1) and geting same x more of FA items ... i think it would be not too hard for devs

 

[Heymrdiedier]

or just give another checkbox with numbers from 1 to 9(or whatever) named repet " x" times ...and then we will need x-times more collectables,(after we change value from 1) and geting same x more of FA items ... i think it would be not too hard for devs

or like a button next to the complete button saying: 'complete and restart this quest'? ive suggested that a few times

 

[edeba]

Page 1 is all easy, page 2 is all medium and page 3 is all hard.

The flags to open need to be easier.

Page 3 needs to be so that on balance, it is just as difficult as it is now, but make one path with about half the requirements, and less FA points, and put the difference of effort into another path, which also has the extra FA points. but, that is what all of the pages need, just a much easier path to get through.

With the 5 level idea, the level 2 would be about what the easy page is now, and the level 4 is about what the 3rd page is now, so the 3rd page would have a path with the same difficulty as the paths on the second page or something like that.

Currently the 3rd page is simply way too difficult and getting past the flag to even open it is a huge barrier.

What exists simply excludes small fellowships and the majority of fellowships that have 5 to 10 active players and a whole group that do not participate much from completing the maps.

It would even add to the game if you have to switch paths at waypoints to find the easy way through. I looked closely at what happened at waypoints, and the the paths were all deliberately blocked with what many fellowships simply could not get past. There really wasn't any better choices for how to complete.

Maybe I'm crazy, but it still seems to me like the FA already has 3 levels of difficulty:
1 stage,2 stages, or 3 stages = 3 levels of difficulty.
I wouldn't be against having 5 stages, and I'm certainly all for adding little rewards per spot on the map though.

 

[edeba]

Time to weigh-in on the overall change in design in the FA.
1) Prizes for the maps are better- this is good.
2) There is far less of the excessive clicking badges required - this is good.
3) There are more badges that you collect just by playing the game the way you normally play - this is good.
4) There are more badges to click through to get to a badge you need to repeat - this is bad.
5) The third page is too difficult for small or more casual fellowships to have any chance to complete - this is bad.
6) There is no fellowship management tools, for example
a) the ability to see how many of each badge the FA has produced to help you choose what is needed
b) the ability to highlight a chosen path

 

[SoggyShorts]

It would even add to the game if you have to switch paths at waypoints to find the easy way through. I looked closely at what happened at waypoints, and the the paths were all deliberately blocked with what many fellowships simply could not get past. There really wasn't any better choices for how to complete.

I find this is a major weakness. Since there is no possible way to avoid paying relics or goods by switching routes, there is almost no point whatsoever in switching routes. Even if you wanted to switch so that you can avoid 15 carpenters and make 20 more farmers, it's not at all worth it because you have to do an entire extra spot in order to switch.
If the map looked like a double hourglass, then there would be a point to having those spots.

 

[Calenmir]

@SoggyShorts is basically right. Events mean income and without that income, we can't offer the game on a free-to-play basis at all for you. So there's no "voting" needed. Yes, we know about the problems and we're solving them but we can't stop that income stream until that's done, because we offer the game on a free-to-play basis Overhauling the complete quest system does take a lot of time though, so in the mean time we are investigating if we can come up with a temporary solution until the complete overhaul is done

I do appreciate the reply and the acknowledgement that it is all about the revenue. I have no basis for this, but perhaps they would consider that revenue MIGHT increase if the game was less tedious. Time is precious to us too. We are the economy of this game. I KNOW you've said they are working on it. I get that they want players happy, but while they are 'looking into it' they continue to make it worse. Why? No one has yet answered that question and I believe I've asked it before. Why do they want to make it harder, more cumbersome, less fun? Do they really make that much on this event that they can't halt it for a, what???, 4-5 week period to improve it and just maybe make more money because more folks would be inclined to pay?

I have now accidentally thrown away (on live game) 3 quests in this event alone. Yes, ENTIRELY MY FAULT, but had I had an option to select the quest I wanted, it wouldn't have happened. Again, MY FAULT for NOT keeping my mind on what I was doing, but that doesn't make it any easier to take.

So I guess my question is, when will it become a priority for them? When will they consider our wants to be their priority? None of that has been answered. And, again, temp solutions are just NOT the answer.

Thanks for your patience Marindor, but the answers just don't work any more. It's time for honesty given the amount of time that has passed since the first decent improvement was suggested.

 

[Jaxom]

Time to weigh-in on the overall change in design in the FA.
1) Prizes for the maps are better- this is good.
2) There is far less of the excessive clicking badges required - this is good.
3) There are more badges that you collect just by playing the game the way you normally play - this is good.
4) There are more badges to click through to get to a badge you need to repeat - this is bad.
5) The third page is too difficult for small or more casual fellowships to have any chance to complete - this is bad.
6) There is no fellowship management tools, for example
a) the ability to see how many of each badge the FA has produced to help you choose what is needed
b) the ability to highlight a chosen path

I agree with 1, 4, 5 and 6. The bad aspects need to be addressed. We need an improved set of fellowship tools, not just chat and a brain-dead message system. InnoGames has done so much more in FOE, why not here?
But my biggest complaint is about the basic interface to selecting badges. It takes far too long to get to the badge that you want. This has been made worse with the addition of Elveran Guard and Sack of Coins. If you are doing one of these you have to click, click, ... on the one remaining badge to get to where you need to be. I have members in my 3 fellowships who refuse to do FA because of this.
Your great developers MUST be able to come up with something better.