Discussion Fellowship Adventures

[Sir Squirrel]

Kind of Soggy, but I think they are both pointing at the fact the rewards could be better for clearing the maps. It is only the second one here and the prizes were the same as last time. Guess we will see if the map prizes get better for the next one.
I didn't find any problems with the collecting part though.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Kind of Soggy, but I think they are both pointing at the fact the rewards could be better for clearing the maps. It is only the second one here and the prizes were the same as last time. Guess we will see if the map prizes get better for the next one.
I didn't find any problems with the collecting part though.

I'm fairly certain that the prizes were the same only because they did a second run to test the bug fixes. @Marindor said that each FA would have different requirements and prizes.
But I do think the prizes for the first FA are quite bad for chapters 1-7 (those in chapter 8 at least get orc nests which are very helpful imo)
That said, since any active FS can get to the 3rd chest by accident simply making the productions they normally make and having 2-3 players actively trying, the prizes can't be expected to be awesome.

In tournaments the top prize is a blueprint which has pretty high value unless you are a free player *shakes fist at inno* so it is very difficult to obtain. I think FA difficulty and prizes may have swung too far in the other direction though, being very easy with low rewards. I'd be happier for myself with higher difficulty and better rewards, but I'm in a good FS that could do it.

We as a community have kinda brought this on ourselves. The most resent events have caused crazy amounts of complaining on the forums(some of which was valid) but the developers seem to have a pretty set idea of what the reward:difficulty ratio should be, so if we beg for easier content they may give it to us, but the price is that we get weaker rewards.

 

[DeletedUser880]

I really think the final rewards for the Adventures are poor. Only if you are the top fellowship do you get a worthwhile building so just 25 people get a good reward, the rest get something which is a very poor return for the time they have put into adventures. I would strongly suggest that at least the top 3 fellowships get the top building reward, with reducing secondary prizes for second and third place. The next 3 fellowships should get the second building, again different secondary prizes, with fellowship 7 - 10 getting the third building.

The concept of fellowships working together is a great one, but a greater number of players need to see something reasonable for the efforts they put in.

 

[Dony]

That said, since any active FS can get to the 3rd chest by accident simply making the productions they normally make and having 2-3 players actively trying, the prizes can't be expected to be awesome.

i think that this FAs are intended to be finished (3rd chest) with FS with less then 25 people
i also think that we gave them a lot of great feedback with this first FA and they can improve it in many places for the next one (rewards included)

 

[Dhurrin]

@SoggyShorts
True. And both are the case in a way.
The event CAN be finished by only a few dedicated players. However, the effort required for those few is way too much to make it worthwhile. In our fs we finished 2 paths with only 5 members, 2 very casual, and 4 of them in chapter 5 and below. 3 of us were 'active' as in logging in perhaps twice a day.However, since its mostly a very casual group we had no active ranking player to collect...so now we wont try on this second one.
Point on the effort required is the huge amounts of short runs needed for the workshops. Fine for people who have nothing else to do, but for people just logging in once or twice a day those are extremely sucky. Hence the required effort. Not sure about the amounts of goods required. If they are set, its way beyond the means of lowlevel players/FSs. If they depend on the average progress of the FS, its ok. We couldnt have done it without one advanced player. I mean: 70K crystal on one waypoint is not much for an advanced player, but its way beyond my means on beta.
Yet if more members participate its easy enough, perhaps too easy. With 10-12 dedicated players its doable to finish all 3 paths in 3 days or so, though it requires some planning. Yet then too, the rewards are skimpy, so why bother?

What I meant by the second remark is that if it is supposed to be a FS event, it seems to me the goal is/should be to get as many members participating as is possible. If the rewards are (partially) tied to the number of FS members contributing, its an incentive to get more of them doing so.

 

[DeletedUser1833]

I have a suggestion : make the Bottomless Pit truly "bottomless" by changing it into a dump for all/any things left over.

We reached the Pit with just under 24h left.
Having completed just the blue path on each Stage, we were ranked at about 67 with a score of around 5100.
The Pit challenges are very specific - like all other challenges leading up to it - and if members had leftover Badges or Trinkets that fitted then fine, they used them. But anything needing 1d to produce means a full stop, finito, all done.

For us, the Pit was useless.
There was no incentive because the top 50 is way out of reach, and there's absolutely nothing to be gained.

My suggestion would be to make the Pit into a sort of "trading post", where Badges can be traded in for (say) 2/4/6/8/10/12 points, and Trinkets for, say, 3/6/9/12 points. At a certain number of points - say, 200 - the contributors to that target get an Instant and the contributions reset (possibly with a *slightly* increased target of, say, 220, and maybe a slightly better Instant too?). All Badges and Trinkets should be "tradeable" at all times, so that small and big members can all continue contributing, and people who have Blacksmith Badges or Statues that will complete just before the event ends will still be able to get something for them.
This gives FSs like ours a fighting chance to make a difference. It makes us competitive and could keep us competitive right up to the end of the event. It also means that players wouldn't be left with hoards of stuff that will simply disappear into the ether - in my particular case, right now that would be 2 Dwarven, 1 Treant, 1 Carpenters, 1 Farmers, 2 Bracelets & 2 Necklaces ... which could benefit my FSs score by (say) another 56 points ... and I would probably be encouraged to keep producing for the last (right now) 11h if it would get me another Instant.
As it is, I'm done, as are all other members of my FS ... the last 24h is simply a waste of space.

Please note that I haven't done the maths on any of the numbers, they're just plucked out of thin air!
And my terminology (like the use of "trading post") might not be consistent/accurate.
I also haven't checked that the suggestion has not already been made, so forgive me if it has!

I simply wanted to put forward an idea that might keep players involved, interested and incentivized right to the end of the event.
Feel free to rip into it...

 

[SoggyShorts]

However, since its mostly a very casual group we had no active ranking player to collect...so now we wont try on this second one.

The simple fix is to have your AM promote everyone to ambassador. This is the first time ever that ranks actually serve a purpose in Elvenar, so whatever they were used for before can be thrown out.

Point on the effort required is the huge amounts of short runs needed for the workshops. Fine for people who have nothing else to do, but for people just logging in once or twice a day those are extremely sucky.

This is much less painful in a mixed FS. In both of my live FS we always have a couple players that are between chapters so they are able to spam out 15 extra workshops. These players can make a dwarf badge in 10 minutes-- far less painful. I'm not sure how they could balance the FA so that a casual FS where only a handful of players that log in once or twice a day for 5 minutes can do well.

Not sure about the amounts of goods required. If they are set, its way beyond the means of lowlevel players/FSs.

The red route is the only one that needs goods, and there is no reason other than rank to take that route--ignore it.

With 10-12 dedicated players its doable to finish all 3 paths in 3 days or so, though it requires some planning. Yet then too, the rewards are skimpy, so why bother?

That sounds about right to me. Yes, as stated the rewards for chapters 1-7 need a boost. If that happens, then
12 dedicated players in 3 days or
20 semi casual players in 6 days or
12 semi casual players in 6 days etc
all seems very doable.
Like I said above, I don't see how they could balance it so that 5-6 super casual players can do it without making it insanely easy for a full active FS.

What I meant by the second remark is that if it is supposed to be a FS event, it seems to me the goal is/should be to get as many members participating as is possible. If the rewards are (partially) tied to the number of FS members contributing, its an incentive to get more of them doing so.

Perhaps they want to avoid some of the in-fighting and strife that happened when FS tournaments were introduced. It's already very difficult to get a full FS of players with the same activity level that want to get the same points in a tournament, and do the same number of weekly visits. If everyone's prizes suffer when a member is less active in the FA as well, that would cause further resentment.
If there was a robust player base and if we had the tools to easily find like-minded players with all of the same goals it would be easy, but we have neither of those.

We reached the Pit with just under 24h left...... But anything needing 1d to produce means a full stop, finito, all done.... For us, the Pit was useless.
My suggestion would be to make the Pit into a sort of "trading post", where Badges can be traded in for (say) 2/4/6/8/10/12 points, and Trinkets for, say, 3/6/9/12 points.

This is a great idea.

 

[DeletedUser1953]

How can we show the participation of each member ?

 

[Dony]

How can we show the participation of each member ?

you cant

 

[DeletedUser1576]

it's a nice idea, but there is wayyyyy to much clicking involved. why the alignment between quest and production? why not simply collect from workshops and it gives the rewards automatically. That saves a lot of declining quests, which everybody does lots and lots and lots and ...
shouldn't be too difficult to program a sort of holding area for results of workshops and tier-1 goods building and then automatically work out the finished rewards / badges.

 

[DeletedUser1707]

I noticed that the top Fellowships were running a lot of workshops. One of the players had 60 extra 1st level workshops. The next members down in that FS each had over 30. There's no way to compete against something like that. And that's ok, more power to them.
But that's not really important. What we(Our Fellowship) found, was that the prizes were pretty lame. Frankly not worth the effort. We finished in the top 5, but we're all discussing whether we will even compete in the next Adventure. Way too much effort for too little reward.

Even the rewards for completing each chest were not very good. Orc nests? Really? I got rid of the ones I had and now I'm stuck with 2 more.
You know, we can trade goods through the Wholesaler. There should be a way to trade buildings. One person's piece of garbage building is another persons treasure.
I;m sitting on top of about 12 buildings that I'll never use. I'd give them to other members in my FS, if I could.

The bottomless pit....pretty lame. Somebody mentioned a 'trading post' arrangement for the pit. That's a pretty good idea.

And handing us all those extra goods to use for the beginning screw up was a nice gesture, but it came too late to do much good.
I ended up with 24 Exquisite statues, 18 Luxurious Flacons, and 10 each of necklaces and bracelots. The rewards came too late to use them.

So, if and when the next Adventure comes out, my Fellowship will look at the incentives offered. If it's still the same useless garbage, we won't participate.

 

[DeletedUser118]

As much as I can understand you disliking the final stage prizes, calling them "useless garbage" is pretty rude and just not the right thing to say in my opinion.

 

[Dony]

As much as I can understand you disliking the final stage prizes, calling them "useless garbage" is pretty rude and just not the right thing to say in my opinion.

maybe for high end players its good, but for early chapter players it is garbage

 

[SoggyShorts]

. Way too much effort for too little reward.

I would also feel this way about getting 5th place. We finished 15th, but if we didn't have badges from last time I doubt we would have tried doing more than the minimum to finish. Chasing rank unless you know you have a really good shot at top 2 is pointless. 8h timer vs 5h or 2h just doesn't have the draw.
Imo after the top 3 it's pretty much all the same.

Also, there's really no denying that the main rewards for chapters 1-7 are garbage. An event building should be better than a normal building, and the mana hut/orc nests don't really cut it.

Buildings that will give mana for chapters 9+ are awesome, but for chapter 1-8 should just be awesome pure culture or pop&culture, but better than at least next chapters residences in pop/sq. (All my cities are 9+, but I know I'd be disappointed with the rewards if I was still pre-mana)

And handing us all those extra goods to use for the beginning screw up was a nice gesture, but it came too late to do much good.

What extra goods?

 

[DeletedUser1075]

I agree with the general disappointment in the ratio of work involved to prizes granted. My FS put a lot of work into this one, and we did well, but the prizes aren't quite worthwhile. I will see on the live server if a smaller FS even thinks it's worth the time.

I think if the next adventure isn't for another month, we might summon enough energy to make a go at it. But if it is sooner, I'm not so sure. And frankly, if the prizes etc stay similar in reward, then after the next one it might not be worth our bother.

 

[DeletedUser1075]

Of course in game there's always less space for explaning things than in a forum announcement (to which the ingame news item links) or on a Wiki. When you open any waypoint in the Fellowship Adventures, you will see an "Information" button on top of that window. When you click it, the info panel appears and you'll see it has a specific tab to explain the stages.

Where would you feel this information in game would fit better and without needing too much space?

Marindor, maybe it is a moot point since once we go through it once we figure it out and don't need the info going forward. One thing that does seem to be missing from the info screens is an in-game display of what each badge name means in terms of resources required. I keep looking for it and can't find it. And apparently I don't have the memory cells to remember what each badge equates to.

Oh, and sorry for the late response - I've been on vacation. I do appreciate your replies! They generally reflect that you have listened, even if you can't always give us the answer we want.

 

[DeletedUser1767]

The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that the best thing to do with the FA building rewards would simply be to give players their choice. There is just no way to keep everyone in all chapters happy otherwise. I was, for instance, extremely happy to get a chance at more Orc Nests, but would have been much less thrilled to get a unicorn or something. If they offered a choice between say three building prizes, some of which are aimed at players in advanced chapters and some at players in lower chapters, more people would be happy. Also, at the moment we literally have no prize choices in this game at all -- they're either fixed or random -- and it would be nice to get a choice sometimes.

 

[Dony]

Also, at the moment we literally have no prize choices in this game at all -- they're either fixed or random -- and it would be nice to get a choice sometimes.

well in 1 month long events you actually have choice for which building you want to go

 

[SoggyShorts]

The more I think about it, the more it seems to me that the best thing to do with the FA building rewards would simply be to give players their choice.

Yes, I think this would probably be the easiest way to please the most people.

well in 1 month long events you actually have choice for which building you want to go

Yeah, in the major events you can choose which prizes you want to try for, and even though it isn't guaranteed it seems to me that players prefer having a choice.

 

[DeletedUser2180]

Hello, I was hoping someone could clarify for my FS before we get too far in. To receive the stage reward, you only have to contribute once to any waypoint, correct? Does it matter if say I contribute to a yellow waypoint, and the FS completes the stage down the blue path, I would still receive the stage reward?