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Discussion [Discussion] Release Notes version 1.22

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
@Marindor
You guys "forgot" to mention that Orc Strategist, Dryad Promotion I and Drone Rider Promotion I are now mandatory to research.
That was allready mentioned it would be mandatory when they released added it in research tree? no need to keep saying the same things.

Out of curiosity, why did the devs still put the patch to live today, when players here had given serious feedback about groups of users who are hurt by the wholesaler as it currently is?

and how would they be hurt? there is no technical issue with the wholesaler so no need to postpone it? disgreeing with a change doesnt mean it should be postponed, and actually they did this allready, wholesaler change was first introduced in 1.17, they changed it by the input then given, so now its time to put it on live.
 

DeletedUser1721

Guest
They changed it by the input which was given then, but users have still come up with a lot more reasons why it just plain doesn't work, even with the changes made. The people who argue that a 50% increase in price with every purchase makes it incredibly unappealing to do any neighborly help whatsoever are kind of on to something, but that is not even my primary concern.

My biggest problem with it was only made apparent by the fact that it was released AFTER the fellowship tournament update. When the devs initially released the wholesaler changes, fellowship tournaments didn't exist, and users who were far out on the map could stockpile goods for their boosted good's tournament week. Now fellowships participate in tournaments collectively, and anyone who is farther out on the map than the devs want is now strangled by the wholesaler change, because they now have to participate every week, can't stockpile goods just for their boosted weeks anymore, and take ten times as many goods as people who aren't farther out on the map to participate in tournaments for the same rewards. And they can't buy goods to make up the deficit when no one else in their fellowship can produce enough for them because it's a tenfold increase over the "normal" amount. The fact that it is a change which was supposedly made to encourage people to trade with each other is especially galling. I was already trading with other users, and still needing to purchase goods from the wholesaler for tournaments. I can't exactly start trading more without..... wait for it..... getting MORE provinces on the map... which the devs don't want me to, which means my tournaments take more goods.... which makes me need to get more provinces....
 

DeletedUser1877

Guest
How do you figure it takes 10 time more goods? The cost to do x number of provinces should be almost exactly the same no matter where a player is or how far thay've scouted.
 

DeletedUser1677

Guest
"Indicators of new technologies in the research tree no longer stay in place after a technology has been researched"

I'm so happy that you fixed that! :D
It was really annoying :p

Btw, on the danish server the indicators are completely gone, even though I have some tech in an earlier chapter, that is not finished :p
So did you fix the problem, by just well, removing the indicators? :p
 
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Dhurrin

Well-Known Member
I totally agree with you Philplessis.
Here is a fast calculation example. The negotation cost for ONE encounter is for example 15000 steel, 13000 scrolls and 10000 dust.
With the old wholesaler I was able to buy 6000 steel for 1.400.000
With the new wholesaler I have to pay 5.400.000 for 6000 steel
(The "cheap" price is based on my Blooming Trader Bonus)

With this increasement of the price, I will not be able to negotate the scouted provinces. (Fighting is impossible)
Preliminary calculation for my next province expansion:
About 35 days scouting, 67 Million coins, and approx. 2.5 Million (mixed) goods.

How will I get this amount of goods in the future, without the help of the "Old Wholesaler" where I can buy needed goods for an acceptable price.

It seems that the high level players are out of the focus of INNO

Longtime players have been out of innogames view for a while. And its not getting any better. Many of them already have paid quite a bit, but arent very likely to need to buy a lot of diamonds again soon, so they prefer to let them rot and try to extort money from the mediumplayers now
 
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DeletedUser1657

Guest
They changed it by the input which was given then, but users have still come up with a lot more reasons why it just plain doesn't work, even with the changes made.

I haven't really seen any new reasons given. The one for fellowship tournament and the GZ is the only one I have spotted that is new. Whether this was already considered we will likely never know. My assumption is they hope time will solve the GZ issue so it isn't factored in, but that's a guess.
 

Mikekun

Member
hello

I'm don't what happend from think developers but this change whoseller are very bad and don't acept in normal game. Before change whoseller was better and newver any player compline in this rule was are. So I'm think it's not bad idea rebulid change whoseller. In this time whoseller are useallse think.

greeting Mikekun
 

DeletedUser1721

Guest
How do you figure it takes 10 time more goods? The cost to do x number of provinces should be almost exactly the same no matter where a player is or how far thay've scouted.
I've been keeping track of roughly how many resources were needed to negotiate in tournaments for a while, in both my main city, which is now in orcs, and my alt cities, which are now in dwarves. The dwarf cities I have now, which are where they "should" be in terms of provinces conquered, require ten times fewer resources than my main city did when it was in dwarves, far beyond where the devs want it in terms of progress on the map. This is something I only just figured out, because my newer cities only just reached the point where I was on my main city when the devs changed this, and it makes me angry.
 
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Marindor

Well-Known Member
"Indicators of new technologies in the research tree no longer stay in place after a technology has been researched"

I'm so happy that you fixed that! :D
It was really annoying :p

Btw, on the danish server the indicators are completely gone, even though I have some tech in an earlier chapter, that is not finished :p
So did you fix the problem, by just well, removing the indicators? :p

Haha yes, for now we did :D They will come back in the future when they work properly but although it seems like a minor thing, it takes more time to resolve it than it seems so we decided to turn them off right now, for they indeed were quite annoying :p
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Yes, that is correct. We implemented extra bug fixing days this week especially before pushing 1.22 to Live and need a little more time to make 1.23 stable enough for Beta release. Our current planning is to release it on Beta next Monday (but it is of course subject to change) :)

Thank you for your answer;)
 

DeletedUser1677

Guest
Haha yes, for now we did :D They will come back in the future when they work properly but although it seems like a minor thing, it takes more time to resolve it than it seems so we decided to turn them off right now, for they indeed were quite annoying :p

Maybe you should write that then :p
I considered writing to the danish support "the indicator is gone, must be a mistake". So it would save the support some time, telling that you did not fix it, just removed it for now :p
 

DeletedUser1721

Guest
With all the devs' emphasis on trading with players rather than using the wholesaler, and interacting with players, I have to wonder if they even play the game.

My main city is always short on supplies, not coins (well, "short" is overstating things. I regularly reach the coin cap, don't regularly reach the supply cap, because I don't have more workshops than I need). The residences I need to provide population to all my buildings which require population produce enough coins per day that I hit the coin cap several times, even after dumping coins into the wholesaler. Do the devs want me to scout with the coins, since they've implemented such high diminishing returns on dumping coins into the wholesaler? I mean, I can do that.... but I thought they didn't want me to, as I'm still so far out on the map that tournament costs are punitive now that the wholesaler's out and everyone in my fellowship needs the same goods every week. Scouting more will simply increase that problem.

And yet, visiting my neighbors gives me... coins. Coins, coins, coins, since most are inactive, and therefore don't give me supplies. Sometimes I have enough trades going in a day that I can't even figure out which of my neighbors helped me so I can go back and return the favor. This just makes me more confused as to what I'm "supposed" to use to get rid of excess coins. KP? I don't really want to build my diminishing returns on KP any higher. Scouting? I thought I wasn't supposed to do that. Wholesaler? Diminishing returns are undesirable.

Also on my main city, I have 227 provinces conquered, and more unlocked. On that main city, I have eight pages of trade offers. The first trade is all people offering planks for marble and steel. My boosts are planks. The second page is one person offering 300 scrolls for 1200 marble (again, I'm boosted in planks, and scrolls), and the rest of the page is various people trading 1k silk for 1k crystals (my boosts are scrolls....). Moving on, on page three, there's finally a few trades with people who want my boosted goods (silk for scrolls, in various quantities) and one opportunist who is trying to trade 100 elixirs for 400 scrolls (yeah right. that trade can rot). Page four is.... a lot more of those elixirs for scrolls trades, and then a magic dust for elixirs trade. I am boosted in magic dust. Page five is more of the same, but it also includes a bunch of 100 magic dust for 1600 marble trades (lol). Page six is magic dust for scrolls trades, moving into page seven which has a bunch of gems for scrolls and dust trades.

Most of those trades are not my fellowship members, because it's early in the morning and most trades by fellowship members have been taken and new ones haven't been posted yet, so I'd say this reflects a fairly accurate view of my trading block which isn't fellowship members, which is something I will have to rely on with tournaments forcing my costs up higher than other fellowship members, to the point that I can't get enough tier 1 goods in trade from them. Almost none of these trades are trades that will help me in tournaments, because the other players have the same boosts as me. I can want to trade goods all I want. Wanting and willingness to trade does nothing when there isn't anyone to trade with. Out of 227 conquered provinces worth of possible trading partners, so many are inactive that the only trading partners I have are mostly boosted with my goods.

It would have made so much more sense for the devs to do whatever they're planning to do to fix trades FIRST, then implement changes to the wholesaler SECOND. As it is, we've pointed out that there are problems with this, ways that certain players can't get the goods they need at certain points, therefore stalling out, after the update went through. The devs then pushed it to live. Now everyone on live is also experiencing the wholesaler, without any kind of fixes meant to make up for not having the old wholesaler.

Marindor has said that the devs want people to get the goods they need while they're researching something rather than waiting to buy them at the end. Funny thing, this is what I do. However, sometimes I still end up ready to unlock the research and not having the goods, because people didn't accept my trades. You don't know that you're going to be forced to buy goods from teh wholesaler because you didn't get enough trades from your trading partners until it happens. What Marindor said implies that all players possess the powers of foresight, and the ability to know whether they will have trades accepted or not before they even post them, and therefore can start buying from teh wholesaler several days prior to needing the goods.

I, personally, am not a seer. If I was, I can assure you, I wouldn't have started playing this game because I would have foreseen the changes made to it after I invested enough time in it that it was not worth quitting. Maybe the devs are true seers and expect us to be too?
 

Dhurrin

Well-Known Member
@Caanna
You must be some kind of seer since you pretty much described my situation. Only difference is my boosts, and the fact that Im way past 350 provinces, but still...the rest is very accurate.
 

DeletedUser1777

Guest
As this is the thread for feedback to V. 1.22 I would like to ask, why in the release notes isn't mentioned the changes they made on units?

I had to read about it in live, this really shouldn't happen :confused:
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
With all the devs' emphasis on trading with players rather than using the wholesaler, and interacting with players, I have to wonder if they even play the game.


Also on my main city, I have 227 provinces conquered, and more unlocked. On that main city, I have eight pages of trade offers. The first trade is all people offering planks for marble and steel. My boosts are planks. The second page is one person offering 300 scrolls for 1200 marble (again, I'm boosted in planks, and scrolls), and the rest of the page is various people trading 1k silk for 1k crystals (my boosts are scrolls....). Moving on, on page three, there's finally a few trades with people who want my boosted goods (silk for scrolls, in various quantities) and one opportunist who is trying to trade 100 elixirs for 400 scrolls (yeah right. that trade can rot). Page four is.... a lot more of those elixirs for scrolls trades, and then a magic dust for elixirs trade. I am boosted in magic dust. Page five is more of the same, but it also includes a bunch of 100 magic dust for 1600 marble trades (lol). Page six is magic dust for scrolls trades, moving into page seven which has a bunch of gems for scrolls and dust trades.

do not look at the "active trades" but just post your passive trades, people will pick them up.
The problem is that people just look at passive trades, in the rare case your neighbourhood really cant supply what you need (extremely rare these days) then ask for help from your fellow guild mates, most likely there is one with a somewhat plank shortage in there neighbourhood.

Don't solo, work together. thats what this game is all about.
 

DeletedUser1657

Guest
do not look at the "active trades" but just post your passive trades, people will pick them up.
The problem is that people just look at passive trades.

Don't solo, work together. thats what this game is all about.

Definitely agree. Just had a similar discussion on another forum and a few of us where mentioning that that roughly 80% of our trades come from passive trades and only 20% from active. For those in quieter time zones this is very important.
 
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