Discussion [Discussion] Release Notes version 1.22

[DeletedUser1877]

Another thing some don't think about.... You've start a new research, you know what the cost weill be, rather than wait , get those trades posted so you have the goods when they are needed. Sometime in the next day or however long it is, they'll be taken up.

 

[Dony]

Arent people used to waiting for their goods from all the guest races we had? Its exactly the same, you dont have goods, you wait till you get it, i dont see a point to have your goods exactly at 12.00 pm and not at 4 am next day. This game is not for impatient, there is no need to rush anywhere if you are planning to play this game for years to come, in that time frame waiting for your goods is just in miliseconds.

 

[DeletedUser1877]

Indeed that's correct Dony, although I've never seen a guest race (yet). What's the big hurry?

 

[DeletedUser1721]

do not look at the "active trades" but just post your passive trades, people will pick them up.
The problem is that people just look at passive trades, in the rare case your neighbourhood really cant supply what you need (extremely rare these days) then ask for help from your fellow guild mates, most likely there is one with a somewhat plank shortage in there neighbourhood.

Don't solo, work together. thats what this game is all about.

Sometimes active trades sit there for long enough that they time out, if fellowship members can't produce enough goods. My tournament goods costs are truly horrendous. I have one other member of my fellowship who is in the same boat as me, provinces beyond the maximum allowed by Inno wise, and at least he's in a lower research chapter so his goods costs are slightly lower, but it's still much higher than anyone else of the same chapter. We can't get enough t1 goods while trading within the fellowship because there aren't any goods to be traded, because between the two of us we used them all to negotiate our massively inflated negotiation costs.

And again, because people keep missing this part, and saying "oh just post trades ahead of time" I will post in capital letters so maybe they will read this part. I post trades for resources WHEN I START THE RESEARCH. Sometimes, depending on the city, THOSE TRADES HAVE NOT BEEN ACCEPTED when I finish putting KP into the research. I'm not even talking about people who don't bother trying to get goods for research until the very end, that's foolish. But it should be POSSIBLE for anyone who actually posts trades when they start a research to have their trades accepted by the time they need them.

My city is now trapped in a vicious cycle, where I have too many provinces conquered to participate in tournaments but the devs want me to participate in tournaments and I have to participate in tournaments for the sake of my fellowship. Even negotiating only two provinces a week (I initially tried four, but that was completely unmanageable, so I dropped to three... still unmanageable, two is where I am now, and I still can't finish the fifth level because goods shortages) I clear out all my fellowship's stores in whatever tier 1 good is needed to trade that week. Some of the trades I need to finish the tournament go unaccepted because there aren't any people who can accept them.

Ironically, my province negotiation costs are now cheaper than my tournament costs, because the tournament costs are so bloated. Perhaps I should ignore the devs and just take provinces? But that would throw my fellowship under the bus.

 

[DeletedUser1767]

do not look at the "active trades" but just post your passive trades, people will pick them up.
The problem is that people just look at passive trades, in the rare case your neighbourhood really cant supply what you need (extremely rare these days) then ask for help from your fellow guild mates, most likely there is one with a somewhat plank shortage in there neighbourhood.

Don't solo, work together. thats what this game is all about.

I also agree. If you post your own trades semi-regularly whether you expect to need the goods or not, they're likely to be taken, and you're less likely to end up with a shortage. All three of the worlds I play in, most of what gets posted for my boosts are cross-tier trades, which I won't take, or very small trades, which I do take but which don't help me much. But the trades I post are generally long gone by the next time I check -- even on Winyandor, where I have like five active neighbours, most of whom share boosts with me. And on Arendyll, where we have too many people with dust boosts, both in my neighbourhood and in my fellowship, my dust trades do take somewhat longer to be taken, but they always are.

@Caanna: Good lord, that sounds horrifying. I thought my tournament costs were pretty bad, sheesh (I have 258). If ever there were a person who had an ironclad excuse not to participate in tournaments, that person would be you. That just sounds like way too much to demand of anyone.

 

[Dhurrin]

do not look at the "active trades" but just post your passive trades, people will pick them up.
The problem is that people just look at passive trades, in the rare case your neighbourhood really cant supply what you need (extremely rare these days) then ask for help from your fellow guild mates, most likely there is one with a somewhat plank shortage in there neighbourhood.

Don't solo, work together. thats what this game is all about.

I only partly agree here. A great many of my (3-star)trades will sit for days. Looking at the tradeboard, I can see 9 full pages of crossteades, offering tier 3 goods, asking for tier 1 goods in a ratio of 16:1 or 15:1. Not a chance.

And I can go on accepting trades, but in my neighbourhood most positions are either inactive players, or players in the warly chapters so they cant even begin to fill my needs.
And a few of the larger players in my worldmap are either gone inactive, or quit, or play less frequently so no regular trade with them anymore.

Trade within the FS is getting harder as well. The reason is simply that due to the changes over the last months several of our top players have quit in disgust and others have cut down their playfrequensy. So we have recruted new players, but again, it will be a long, long time until they can provide anything like the needs of the higher level players.

 

[DeletedUser1767]

I only partly agree here. A great many of my trades will sit for days. Looking at the tradeboard, I can see 9 full pages of crossteades, offering tier 3 goods, asking for tier 1 goods in a ratio of 16:1 or 15:1.

Is it me, or are these crosstrades becoming more and more common lately? People have always posted those, but I don't remember so many people posting so many of them. Used to be, you'd have a few of those, but also a lot of same-tier trades. Now I see mostly cross-tier trades.

One neighbour on Arendyll once posted multiple trades of 100K Tier III goods for 300K Tier I. Technically three stars. I don't care what the game says, that is not a fair trade.

 

[lika1961]

I agree - there does seem to be more cross-tier trades. I don't accept them, ever. Fortunately trading within my fellowship is really good.

 

[Dhurrin]

Yes there are more cross tier trades out than before and in larger quantities too.
Problem probably is that more and more players are doing the math and conclude that per square, tier 3 factories are much more efficient if one takes into account the amount of supporting buildings in pop, supplies and culture one needs.
Personally, I think this got an additional boost by the changes in the game lately. Introducing the GZ zone makes it much, much harder to get more expansions by fighting, if not completely impossible. Negotiation costs have risen in the same proportion.
At the same time, the prices for premium expansions were exponentially raised, so they are for most players no longer an option either.
These factors are making a lot of players rethink the optimum use of their space. The result is really not that surprising, if you consider that 1 3-hour set of your tier3 factories produces enough to see all your tier1 needs for several days if you can trade the goods for those.
Actually I expect we only now are reaching the top, since it takes time to convert a city to only one kind of factory.

As far as Im concerned, one more severe miscalculation on the devs part, not foreseeing a very simple, logical reaction of players to changes they have introduced without thinking about effect on a longer term.

 

[DeletedUser1767]

I wonder how sustainable this is... but I guess we'll be finding out.

 

[Heymrdiedier]

what is this GZ you guys keep talking about? i cant figuer out what the abbreviation means? i think it has something to do with the expected provinces, but im nog sure at all

 

[DeletedUser1721]

It's the "Goldilocks zone" where players are able to win in fighting before they go outside it and fighting becomes impossible again.

 

[Dhurrin]

what is this GZ you guys keep talking about? i cant figuer out what the abbreviation means? i think it has something to do with the expected provinces, but im nog sure at all

Sorry, Goldilocks Zone.
The amount of provinces between the chest of the chapter you are in and the amount of provinces needed to open the chest for the next chapter. That is the zone where you can actually win battles in the provinces

 

[Heymrdiedier]

t's the "Goldilocks zone" where players are able to win in fighting before they go outside it and fighting becomes impossible again.

Sorry, Goldilocks Zone.
The amount of provinces between the chest of the chapter you are in and the amount of provinces needed to open the chest for the next chapter. That is the zone where you can actually win battles in the provinces

Hmm who came up with that name? it doesn't apply at all, since Goldilocks means the center isn't good either. If you apply Goldilocks to this game it would mean you can only do ring 9 and 10, and 11+ are out of your league, but 8- are also out of your league.
That last definitely doesn't apply

Better would be EZ: expected zone? or MMZ: MufMufZone

 

[Heymrdiedier]

Since a lot of people on the live servers are still very angry about the wholesalesmans changes: can i make a suggestion?

Right now the blooming trader guild became a little worse with this update. Why not change the current trader fee reduction for undiscovered players, to a reduction of the surpluss off wholesalesman costs? Like on lvl 10 the extra cost per purchase would be only 27% instead of the 50% right now.

 

[DeletedUser1767]

Hmm who came up with that name? it doesn't apply at all, since Goldilocks means the center isn't good either. If you apply Goldilocks to this game it would mean you can only do ring 9 and 10, and 11+ are out of your league, but 8- are also out of your league.
That last definitely doesn't apply

I always thought it was a reference to the fact that if you don't do enough provinces, you're prohibited from moving to the next chapter until you have enough.

 

[Dhurrin]

Hmm who came up with that name? it doesn't apply at all, since Goldilocks means the center isn't good either. If you apply Goldilocks to this game it would mean you can only do ring 9 and 10, and 11+ are out of your league, but 8- are also out of your league.
That last definitely doesn't apply

Better would be EZ: expected zone? or MMZ: MufMufZone

Not quite true.
If you stay below the GZ the fights are very easy. You just cant advance to the next chapter until you have all the provinces needed for the chest.

 

[DeletedUser1657]

@Marindor The change to the wholesaler seems to have brought more attention to the issue of active player density. We know the player movement solution is now occurring more regularly and it is meant to help with this but the inactive safe cities (era 3+ or spent diamonds) can remain interspersed throughout the map reducing the density of active players. As people quit for various reasons this could see people isolated with inactive neighbours again but close to the middle of the map.

Are you able to share if a solution to this issue is being looked into?

Another issue that I think the wholesaler change has highlighted is the importance of fellowships, especially for a new player, to understand the value of being in a fellowship so they have the active trading partners. A review of the tutorial or early quests to help explain/encourage new players about fellowships is also likely to help.

 

[Dhurrin]

@Mykan
Full support on that!
I suggested it elsewhere: an ingame message to all players that all cities that have no activity in the coming three or four months will be erased (yes, erased, not moved) at the end of that period. And that that process will be repeated every month from then on, erasing, not moving all cities with no activity for 3 months.
That way the moving of players assures they have a chance of having active tradingpartners instead of lots of dead cities.

@Marindor
I would also like to see a revision of early chapter quests. I KNOW of the GZ zone. New players need an ingame warning. And perhaps a quest of NOT scouting for 24 hours.
My new city on beta would have had a horrible surplus of provinces if I was just following the quests, as the quest to finish a province just kept on popping up, so even though I knew to keep it down, I already was past the 10 needed for chapter 2 long before even getting close to the end of chapter 1, especially since so many troops are now provided (150 squads) to starting players.

 

[DeletedUser1627]

Okay... again waiting for the 1.23 update but still nothing...