[Discussion] Behind the Scenes: Battle Redesign

[Dony]

what about to try make screenshots of battlefield from first round which are not winable on auto combat so developers are aware of that
i mean, you make setup which should work, then you are defeated, log to battlefield and make screenshot, dont need to try 2-3 times to get defeated, just once

 

[Buttrflwr]

I just don't attempt to fight 8 enemy squads no matter what lvl I am on. I don't like funeral services and notifications of next of kin.

 

[DeletedUser1657]

Actually some of the 8 enemy squad fights I take the least damage from when using auto-fight. Occasionally I even walk out unscathed. I find terrain seems to have more impact on my losses then the number of enemy squads.

 

[Deleted User - 60107]

After finally getting to try the Sorceress I in combat I must say:
The Sorceress is USELESS! Maybe once you upgrade her to Sorceress II she becomes somewhat useful, but the intial Sorceress is simply too weak - low HP cause her to die quickly, and the low range forces her to get too close to the enemy, so all enemies can hit her. Even Heavy Ranged and Heavy Melee have an easy time killing Sorceresses, and those are the units that are supposed to be weak to mages!

At least the human priest has a range of 5, so he can stay out of the range of enemy Knights. Not so with the Sorceress.

Look, just because the Enchantress is overpowered due to the new way bonuses are calculated doesn't mean that the Sorceress is overpowered too, or that both units should have the same range. They are different units for a reason. So elave the Enchantress with range 3 but the Sorceress range 4 - that will make her somewhat useful.

 

[Dony]

My suggestion of how pre battle select screen could look (of course with your graphic)
I used "+" for defense bonus for a reason, will explain it later with full post
I just want feedback if we can do it even better.
I would like to show even debuffs somehow on this screen for every enemy in shorter way.

edit. forgot to mention that neutral units could have "N" in both squares for neutral or normal damage dealt/taken

 

[DeletedUser736]

I am really nitpicking here, but I tried the drone riders for the first time with sounds effect turned on today. Seriously? That's the best sounds effect for bee/hornet they could find out?

 

[DeletedUser736]

There has been a lot of critics about the auto battle function. I usually fight manually, but this week, I decided I would finally build up my magic dust boost, so I did auto fight to gather the runes I needed to get to max boost. I did auto fight pretty much everything and I am currently ranked 7. This morning, I had access to 3 provinces tier 6. Out of 18 sectors, I have been able to auto battle 15 of them.

This might not be indicative of the system as a whole, since different troops can yield very different results in auto fight, but I think that 15/18 on the hardest level is fairly good result. I would have fared better in manual mode, but the mere fact that picking the correct combination of troops win an auto battle even with enemy almost twice as numerous seems to indicate a difficulty spike that is "reasonable" since the AI doing auto battle is laughably bad, and it seems to indicate that the complaint about auto battle might not be as justified as it might seem.

As I said, the only thing that invalidate my "study" of later round tournament is the fact that in tournament you only test a limited amout of troops, and AI efficiency with different troops varies wildly, but overall, it's doable, both in auto fight and manual.

 

[Dony]

few more concepts:

Unit overview from battlefield

Unit attack range

Enemy units attack range

 

[Heymrdiedier]

Those 4/5 stars as you can see in screenshot above are nonesense in battle . if you have -80% damage reduction but +0% damage done those 4/5 stars dont do a thing. it confuses players more then it helps.

If the intention is to help players in combat, then it would be better if you can see the +damage% ammount before you can shoot (including reduction/addition% of debuffs) that way players will surely shoot the right target. and not shoot an enemy they think are good against but actually only do +2% damage to (because of overpowered debuff calculations)

 

[SoggyShorts]

If your bonus against a unit is defensive 4/5 shields should appear, not swords.

 

[Heymrdiedier]

If your bonus against a unit is defensive 4/5 shields should appear, not swords.

well thats defenatly not the case, my low lvl treant only has defense against light melee and no offense, but the tooltip displays 3 swords. while it even should be just 1 shield.
wou be so much easier if they replace the swords with 2 rows: swords and shields and each sword/shield represents 20%

 

[SoggyShorts]

would be so much easier if they replace the swords with 2 rows: swords and shields and each sword/shield represents 20%

I'm not even sure the symbols are needed, I'd like to think people understand percentages, but if they want to keep it pretty, yes-2 lines like you said.

 

[DeletedUser1657]

If the intention is to help players in combat, then it would be better if you can see the +damage% ammount before you can shoot (including reduction/addition% of debuffs) that way players will surely shoot the right target. and not shoot an enemy they think are good against but actually only do +2% damage to (because of overpowered debuff calculations)

This is why I think the suggestion someone made for preview battle damage on hover over would help a lot, especially with the new debuff calculations which can make things very misleading. If a person could just hover over a couple units and see the range of damage they would actuall make they could make a very informed decision of which target to hit.

 

[Dony]

the reason i included their new rating system in my pictures is that i doubt they will remove it anytime soon, even tho its not as good as it may seem
that system (5 sword rating) take into account attack, defense, movement range, attack range, aplicable debuffs, iniciative and who know what more and even then its misleading as i explained in my bug reports
i doubt any fighter will use that ratings, because how misleading they are, for me its useless but for non-fighter it can prove to be a bit of help even if they confuse players with it
that preview battle damage on hover over enemy unit suggestion i made is a bit outdated now, but i will try make it in graphic and even better (more information inlcuded)

 

[DeletedUser1596]

Is there still someone from Elvenar team on this thread? I would like to ask a question that maybe only a developer knows the answer for...

First some facts:

• There are new units commming into battle system (dryad, ranger, strategist...)
• Every unit has 3 levels (basic, 1st and 2nd promotion)
• Units without the 2nd promotion have no place in tournament/provinces for advanced players.
• Every promotion technology is several eras apart from it's previous level (in a tech tree)

Let's focus on a single unit - orc strategist

• developed some time ago (according to elvenarchitect)
• introduced now on beta in orcs era
• the first promotion is nowhere to be seen, which means next era at best
• fully operational unit with the 2nd promotion is therefore several months away

So my question is: What's the big idea behind this? Some of us could use these units right now. Our basic units (barracks made) are fully upgraded by now, so why don't these guys come into play already promoted? This way it will take months to get our hands on the second promotion.

This is not a complaint, I really would like to know.

 

[Marindor]

Is there still someone from Elvenar team on this thread?

Of course we are To answer your question: Each unit has 3 levels (as you probably know by now). We still have some quite some chapters to come, so not all levels will be available yet but they will be in due time. They are planned for later chapters

 

[DeletedUser736]

Of course we are To answer your question: Each unit has 3 levels (as you probably know by now). We still have some quite some chapters to come, so not all levels will be available yet but they will be in due time. They are planned for later chapters

That does not answer his question, which is something I asked before. WHY units are released at level 1, making them virtually useless compared to the units we already have.

 

[Deleted User - 60107]

Yes, why are we getting units that are practiclaly useless at level 1? And why is the enemy getting units that are better than our units?

For example, Dryad versus Mist Walker:
Dryad at level 1: Movement 3, Range 4, Initiative 17
Mist Walker at level 1: Movement 4, Range 4, Initiative 21, Strike Back 1

So the Mist Walker has better movement (making it much easier for them to reach our units), better Initiaive (giving them the first move), AND has Strike Back so they retaliate when attacked. The last part is especially bad for elves, sicne they have no long range units. Humans get the Priest (range 5) and the Cannoneer (range 8) - both can stay out of Mist Walker Range. Elves, on the other hand, get Golem (range 3) and Sorceress (range 3) - both are forced to get within enemy attack range to be able to attack, and so get additional damage from enemy retaliation (which means more losses).

The last part emphasizes a major issue with the current combat balance: Range is EXTREMELY important (especially with all the obstacles on the battle field), and thus Humans have an advantage over elves. This is also why on the EN server I switched from using Bud Sorceresses to using Blossom Mage - the latter has much better range (5 versus the Sorceress' 3), thus reducing both the damage they take from enemy retaliation and the impact obstacles have.

Another example how important range is: Human Paldins have range 2, allowing them to strike enemies on the other side of an obstacle. Elven Treants have a range 1, forcing them to go around said obstacle to strike the same enemy, resulting in more damage and more losses.

 

[DeletedUser1596]

Every unit has 3 levels

Each unit has 3 levels

...

Sorry, I just could not resist

I guess you still got my point. By the time we get some of these units (orc era), every other unit in our garrison is level 3 and we face level 3 enemies. There is no point in making us wait several months just to.. well, you know. I thought, it could be something for devs to think about.

 

[CrazyWizard]

Of course we are To answer your question: Each unit has 3 levels (as you probably know by now). We still have some quite some chapters to come, so not all levels will be available yet but they will be in due time. They are planned for later chapters

Why haven't you guys opted for a proper graduate release of all units, (maybe relocking and downgrading some existing units.
Right now all those new umits are mostly 100% poinless in there existence, but hey maybe 7 chapters from now they might actually get "usefull"

this is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen, releasing a unit in chapter 9, thats barely better than a unit released in chapter 1.