[Discussion] Behind the Scenes: Battle Redesign

[DeletedUser651]

Elder treants for the dogs, some archers for the enchantress, and a golem. I also tried all silver swords. Silver swords and sorc IIIs. Silver swords and archers. I am tired of being slaughtered.

 

[DeletedUser118]

I tried Treants and Archers but my Archers didn't really get to fire at the enemies, thanks to the obstacles in the way and Cannoneers who can fire over the entire map. The Treants on the other hand were way too slow for all the Enchantresses and Steinlings and would have taken forever to reach them. So I stopped after loosing my Archers after just two hits. This is just no fun at all.

 

[DeletedUser736]

With the tournament down, I can't try it much, but if I recall correctly, it's mostly heavy ranged and light units. So try 5 treants and try destroying the mage first.

 

[DeletedUser651]

I tried Treants and Archers but my Archers didn't really get to fire at the enemies, thanks to the obstacles in the way and Cannoneers who can fire over the entire map. The Treants on the other hand were way too slow for all the Enchantresses and Steinlings and would have taken forever to reach them. So I stopped after loosing my Archers after just two hits. This is just no fun at all.

Galoyal....that is identical to what happened to me. No fun at all.

 

[DeletedUser736]

That does it. New update, Elves get a new tier 3 units, and humans still do not have a tier 3 heavy ranged. Humans don't even have the basics. you call that balancing things out? there's no point discussing battles anymore. Dev do whatever fancy them, pretty much like in forge, and they don't give a ... about balancing things out

 

[DeletedUser]

I wonder how is this winnable.

 

[Deleted User - 60107]

It is, but it depends on terrain. In most cases it would be best to send 5 squads of Sword Dancers and wait for the doggies to get close (if necessary move your units around to make sure the doggies cannot reach them on first turn). Have all 5 squads focus on the doggies until they are dead, then send all 5 after the Steinlings. You will suffer losses, but you should be able to win.

Depending on terrain, if it is possible to block the path of the doggies, a squad (or 2) of Archers might also be a good idea, due to their range. But that deepnds on the map.

 

[DeletedUser]

thx shadow, will try that. I got a bit scared on the size of enemies

 

[SoggyShorts]

thx shadow, will try that. I got a bit scared on the size of enemies

They look big but there's only 2 of them and 5 of you.
Zerg rush is a perfectly viable strategy =)

 

[DeletedUser1607]

With this new system of multiplying instead of adding %-damage it feels like some -attack% debuffs are too strong (mostly thinking of the abbots "Pretended Pacifism" -50% dmg).

If this was before the change: Storm Barbarian affected by -50% vs Abbott would be 70%-50%=+20% damage.
Now: 1,7*0,5=0,85= -15% damage.

 

[Dony]

With this new system of multiplying instead of adding %-damage it feels like some -attack% debuffs are too strong (mostly thinking of the abbots "Pretended Pacifism" -50% dmg).

If this was before the change: Storm Barbarian affected by -50% vs Abbott would be 70%-50%=+20% damage.
Now: 1,7*0,5=0,85= -15% damage.

you have more choices then just barbarians and in fact barbarians are the worst from this choices

 

[DeletedUser1607]

you have more choices then just barbarians and in fact barbarians are the worst from this choices

It was just an example, and barbarians are supposed to be strong vs mages. What I'm trying to say is that a debuff with -50% dmg nullifies a 100% damage advantage now, which seems a bit overpowered.

 

[DeletedUser1596]

I was just about to complain about performance of barbarians against archers+abbots.. and it looks like I'm late

Some weird stuff:
In this tournament there are mostly archers and mages. I fought 80 fights, on automatic, randomly choosing army of 5 paladins, or 5 barbarians.
According to pop-up help (and THE PENTAGRAM) barbarians are super strong against mages and archers, while paladins are super weak against those 2 guys. One would guess, that 5 paladins is suicide and 5 barbarians is flawless victory. Well guess again. Paladins perform a little better.

There might be something very wrong with barbarians. It's not just 10% here, 10% there. If a barbarian with all his bonuses performs the same as heavy guy with his penalties, isn't a barbarian twice as weak as he should be? Please, check it out.

 

[DeletedUser736]

I was just about to complain about performance of barbarians against archers+abbots.. and it looks like I'm late

Some weird stuff:
In this tournament there are mostly archers and mages. I fought 80 fights, on automatic, randomly choosing army of 5 paladins, or 5 barbarians.
According to pop-up help (and THE PENTAGRAM) barbarians are super strong against mages and archers, while paladins are super weak against those 2 guys. One would guess, that 5 paladins is suicide and 5 barbarians is flawless victory. Well guess again. Paladins perform a little better.

There might be something very wrong with barbarians. It's not just 10% here, 10% there. If a barbarian with all his bonuses performs the same as heavy guy with his penalties, isn't a barbarian twice as weak as he should be? Please, check it out.

I've played only one province in the current tournament, and I also used mostly paladins or barbarians. I did'nt use auto fight. The difference you are seeing is probably due to the fact that barbarians have no special defense at all, while paladins are super strong against the heavy ranged. Even if there is only one steinling, he is not going to be a priority target for your barbarians in auto fight, so losses will be abnormally heavy, while on the other hands, paladins with 70% defense against them can almost ignore them ignore them.

Barbarians are all offense, no defense, so they tend to die quick. I like to use them tough because they are free (with a level 6 dwarven bulwark, I produce way more than I will ever need since I am locked on the map anyway)

 

[DeletedUser1596]

@galoyal : Yes, I know, and you are right. I just wanted to point out that they may need some balancing. After all if barbarians are having difficulties defeating their "best" enemies even if they outnumber them, then something is not right.

 

[DeletedUser1607]

Yeah give the barbarians a break, they cant even be used as cannonfodder any longer to save archers/priests from damage after the initiative change.

 

[DeletedUser736]

@galoyal : Yes, I know, and you are right. I just wanted to point out that they may need some balancing. After all if barbarians are having difficulties defeating their "best" enemies even if they outnumber them, then something is not right.

I tested it a bit more and I have to agree with you. I did'nt do any auto fight, but going manual, I can see what is wrong. It has been explained clearly by Lynxze already

With this new system of multiplying instead of adding %-damage it feels like some -attack% debuffs are too strong (mostly thinking of the abbots "Pretended Pacifism" -50% dmg).

If this was before the change: Storm Barbarian affected by -50% vs Abbott would be 70%-50%=+20% damage.
Now: 1,7*0,5=0,85= -15% damage.

With the new way they calculate debuff, troops who's main advantage is offense have been rendered useless compared to troops whose bonuses is defense.

So I agree, something is wrong there. but that ain't new. Inno being unable to balance things out? You won't see that in a lifetime. They broke forge of empire, and it will happens to Elvenar too, eventually.

 

[DeletedUser1345]

Now there are rangers in the tournaments. Only early on though. The newest battle advantage that can be used in the tournaments is too weak to be used as opponents in all but the simplest of battles. The unit introduced the furthest out in the tech tree is not powerful, and the developers know it. The new scoring system for combat advantages tells, gives us a ranking rather than showing the percentages, as if we can't figure out that 70% is greater that 40%. At least I understand why they dummy it up like that. All of us that are still playing this game are really stupid. The writing on the wall is there. The game will be upgraded into oblivion. Get out while you can.

 

[DeletedUser1596]

Hi guys, I need an advice here.

We are fighting the tournaments on our local server as usual. You know how it works.. hundreds of units die every 16 hours. But there is this guy, he is currently 6th in tournaments, he has level 5 barracks, two level 4 armouries, and he doesn't have manufacturies for magical goods. How did he...?

I mean, how does it really work? If I start a new town, will I be able to get to the top of tournament ladder easily?

 

[Dony]

early on (early chapters, low map exploration) you pay with gold and supplies for negotiation which are close to town, the further away you go then gold is replaced with 2nd goods and later supplies replaced with 3rd goods, its easy to get 10k+ (3x6star + some lowers) tournament score without fighting early on if you can afford it