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Discussion Challenges

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Marindor, Jan 3, 2019.

  1. edeba

    edeba Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    Visual is always better for an idea...

    So redesign the lottery thing at the bottom to play the metals earned in the crafting challenge. I made my suggestion for prizes and percentages to go into the lottery thing above.

    challenge visual.jpg
     
  2. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    Once you get better at events you will be able to complete the big ones in a week and the little ones in a couple of days- that means that there is nothing going on for ~70% of the time. That's enough downtime IMO.
    Ah I see- I completely disagree, I think your rank should reflect how powerful your city is, and a player shouldn't be rewarded for designing an inefficient city.
    When a FS says "Now recruiting 200K min score" Would they rather have a player with 202K rank who makes 100K goods per day, or a player with 200K rank who makes 400K goods per day?
    The point is, I don't care how or why your city is powerful- what your score should show me is how powerful it is.
    *"powerful" to me means your ability to make stuff: troops, mana, seeds, goods, kp, guest race goods, everything.
    Currently, your score is based on how much culture you consume, which proves nothing, and that is horribly outdated (when invented, there was no such thing as an event building)

    Here's another way to put it:
    If 2 cities are 100% identical, except
    City #1 has 30 residences and 2 empty expansions
    City #2 has 25 residences, 5 winter stars, and 6 empty expansions
    Which city is "better"? Which city is more desirable?
    Objectively city #2 is better and should be ranked higher.

    Here's 1 last way without event buildings:
    City #1 has 26 normal residences for 88,400 pop using 468 squares +36K score
    City #2 has 15 magic residences for 88,500 pop using 270 squares +24K score
    Clearly, the magic city is better, yet because it consumes less culture (i.e. is more efficient) it is penalized.

    The ranking system is broken, people just don't think about it.
    I still hate hate HATE this idea.
    You want bigger goals? Fine, make the progress bar longer and longer with more prizes. Even make it unlimited, but keep your hands off of my prizes.
    You want rank and competition? Do it for ranking points, and ranking points only.

    I do not want to play against other players who can ruin all of my hard work by opening their wallet at the last minute. You already got that in the FA, and I very much hope that disease doesn't spread to the rest of Elvenar.
     
  3. calenmir

    calenmir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2017
    @SoggyShorts - yes, to those last 2 sentences. This was just supposed to be a fun little interlude (and quite possibly also looking for a way to make FAs more efficient for people not wanting to cycle through the quests (which is probably everyone)). I would love to be able to get the prize, but if I can't I'll lose no sleep over it. I did nothing to get to the midway point other than toss out some spells, but the rest was simply based on what I do everyday - which is reset my workshops. You CAN play harder at it if you want, but if you don't - you still win something. How fun is that!
     
    Angeduciel and SoggyShorts like this.
  4. Maillie

    Maillie Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2016
    @Soggy Shorts - Some people work very hard to get "efficient" cities. Others just play for fun. If the set pieces are ranked, why then would it be fair to the ones that work hard, but have a very unlucky day and can't finish their set, then receive less ranking than an inefficient city that can win the missing set piece? I still think it's unfair to players like you that work at making rank based upon things you do, rather than by sheer luck.
     
  5. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    @Maillie
    You and I have a fundamental difference in our view of what ranking means.
    • You think it is a reward for what you have done.
    • I think it should be a measurement of how good your city is.
    Ultimately who would you rather have on your team:
    A player who works really hard but has a mediocre city that doesn't make many goods or troops, or
    A lucky player who's city is super awesome and pumps out goods and troops like crazy

    Or take Luck completely out of the discussion:
    City #1 has 26 normal residences for 88,400 pop using 468 squares +36K score
    City #2 has 15 magic residences for 88,500 pop using 270 squares +24K score
    Clearly, the magic city is better, yet because it consumes less culture (i.e. is more efficient) it is penalized.
    .
     
  6. maxiqbert

    maxiqbert Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    I don't like the challenge, because it's a bit of a no-brainer,
    but the way it counts the medals is good
    Maybe you need to implement something about the order ? more points for a streak for instance?
     
  7. RandomNo.

    RandomNo. Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2018
    As long as the challenge is a personal one with no repercussions on the FS for not participating, I'm fine with it. As it looks currently, there's no penalty for not doing it and if you do you get a little bonus, much like crafting is, so I like it.

    P.s. rank is the most useless stat in the game. That doesn't mean I don't like it. I say useless as rank doesn't give any bonus to your city at all (and I'd like for it to stay that way). Personally I am hoping to eventually hit top 50 in my server and it's just a personal goal that has no impact on anyone. That's what I like about rank
     
    SoggyShorts and Ainor like this.
  8. Jaxom

    Jaxom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2016
    This first craftsman challenge worked out just fine. It worked without problems from mobile app and browser. No extra clicking to accomplish things. With my current set of workshops I got it done with more than a day to spare.

    Prizes were OK, especially when you don't have to do a lot of extra work to get them. Gave me a bit more to do crafting with.

    With the Fellowship Adventure worked as well. I won't do another of those until the click-til-you-drop interface is replaced.
     
    SoggyShorts and iDavis like this.
  9. Maillie

    Maillie Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2016
    @Soggy Shorts - Our fundamental difference is what we want out of the game. I started a different game in 2007 with a free trial. In one day I was hopelessly addicted and started a 9 year run of living in dungeons. I was first in my guild to reach level 60, first to fly, my list of firsts are long. I was extremely efficient all the way to levels over 100, and have rare mounts to prove it. I never want to work that hard again. I specifically joined a fellowship that doesn't require it. I have a city that I enjoy having. Ranking? I've been there. I've done that. One of the best things about this game is that there is plenty of room for all kinds of players, hard core and casual. I truly appreciate the effort that you put into your city, I was you once. Now I look at things differently, like what would be better for the smaller players. My neighborhood is full of abandoned small cities. My greatest pleasure is to take in a chapter two player and watch them grow to Page One. Efficiency in city building has given way to my pure enjoyment of helping others achieve some modem of success. I don't have a fellowship here, I am Archmage in another world, and I have the greatest group I've ever been with in any game. That's my joy.

    When you are asking for ranking to be given for set buildings you are thinking of more ranking for yourself. I am thinking of how disappointing it would be for someone who has an efficient city like yours to drop in ranking if you are not lucky one day, and someone else is. My city doesn't matter, because I'm not in the hunt for top ranking. That part of me has retired.:)
     
  10. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    I couldn't even tell you within 500 what my rank is on any server(pretty sure I'm top 1,000 but I wouldn't bet on it)

    My point about the ranking being broken isn't for me since I'd never P2W, and I'm not asking for that to be fixed.

    I'm hoping ranking gets fixed for those who do care (and pay for this game)
    Seriously, that is nothing compared to having to choose between a good building and a bad one worth more points. It's a bad design like taking an SS tech is bad for tournaments kinda stupid. Also, I think you overestimate the role of luck in events. ;)

    Twice now you have ignored my example that has nothing to do with luck:(, so I'll try one more time:

    City #1 has 26 normal residences for 88,400 pop using 468 squares +36K score
    City #2 has 15 magic residences for 88,500 pop using 270 squares +24K score
    Clearly, the magic city is better, yet because it consumes less culture (i.e. is more efficient) it is penalized.

    No luck involved, but the better city gets 10,000 fewer points. That's dumb.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  11. Dony

    Dony King of Bugs

    Joined:
    May 5, 2016
    Efficient city will get more ranking points everytime, maybe not immediatelly, because they have much more ranking points stored in extra pop/cul then others
    you are not taking into account ranking points per tile, if you normalize both cities to be the same size, you will see different numbers
     
  12. Karvest

    Karvest Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    he reserve extra space gained from magic buildings for events/FA in this calculation.
     
    Golden Awaken and SoggyShorts like this.
  13. maxiqbert

    maxiqbert Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    who cares?
    ranking is not the point

    challenges could be great with a bit of strategic feeling to them
     
  14. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2016
    As I tried to explain here the addition of challenges on top of FA's, mini events, and seasonal events brings us to a point where you pretty much need to permanently devote a section of your city to having a level 1 ghetto.
    • The problem is that players don't want to remove factories for level 1 workshops.
    • The fix for that is amazing set buildings that can replace factories in a fraction of the space.
    • The problem with that is the sets give no ranking points.
    • The fix for that is to base ranking points on production capacity, not culture consumption.

    So to answer "who cares?": anyone who cares about ranking, and anyone who doesn't care, but enjoys having those rank chasers pay for our game.
    In short: everyone should care.:)
     
    Golden Awaken likes this.
  15. maxiqbert

    maxiqbert Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2017
    then start a ranking thread
     
  16. Syonis

    Syonis Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2018
    @Marindor
    With this feature went live today can we get some insight, how it is determined if someone gets the 3503 medals version or the 4350 medals one?
    As seen in this thread it looked like it was chapterbased but as it turned out it wasn't.
     
  17. Dony

    Dony King of Bugs

    Joined:
    May 5, 2016
    i am pretty sure it will be more like test A and test B groups and then they will evaluate the outcome
     
  18. Biloutte91

    Biloutte91 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    4350 in all the worlds in French Live :) :)
     
  19. TTTTancik

    TTTTancik New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2019
    So you're basically saying they need more data, yes? That's perfectly understandable, but shouldn't the evaluation come before rolling it out on live servers? Imagine if for example pharmaceutical companies worked like this...
    "We created a pretty good drug, it heals multiple ailments, but we can't agree on a form of application... We have it in two sizes, either a pill the size of a brick or a microscopic speck of dust, neither is perfect, so it will eventually be something between the two, but we need more data. So we'll sell the brick-sized one in half of the countries, the small one in the rest and then we'll evaluate and try to come to the best size."
    I guess people in the first half would be pretty dissatisfied with this kind of approach.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
    SoggyShorts likes this.

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