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Discussion Autumn Zodiac

blackbudahflyb

Well-Known Member
The answer to the problem of people having many bears at high levels...or any other evolving building is simple: DO NOT allow more than one bear (evolving building type) to be placed in a city. Or even just after reaching 10 artifacts of a certain type a player can no longer collect them and other basic expiring types of prizes can be offered in their place.

Changing the quests to a handful of repeating quests was a very bad move. I don't care about the level of buildings needed to create said items...though I understand the negativity of that for players with a play style different than mine. However I have 3 live cities and this 1 here on beta. Two of them I am done with the event on, due to the quests repeating too many times. I cannot play my game, the way I do and continue to do the event quests in those cities. Its choosing between Tournament and Fellowship participation or event. My troops and goods will be going towards my Fellowships 10 chest push, not repeatedly completing provinces, gaining relics, scouting or going into the Spire for catalysts and spell fragments for those repeating quests, or the quests needing catalysts and fragments in bulk to create vision vaper. Building my city and progression in chapters is my main goal. Events are side pleasures...hopefully they remain fun to do and beneficial or they will be left undone in order to continue with my city in the way I play.

SIDE NOTE: If cheating is defined as using in game items to advance my game play style, which is to progress through chapters and build my city, then I am guilty of cheating. Cheating...in my humble opinion...is not the use of INNO created and given items like time reduction spells, portal profit spells, and Wishing wells (and other expiring buildings).

Another side note: Inno is quickly becoming that amazing doctor that is losing patients because the bed side manner is horrible and offensive. Stop ignoring your players. I have seen great games with amazing graphics and many updates and upgrades, DIE, because they did not value and follow to the best of their ability the players needs and wants. Examples: Wizard101 (still online but very few players remain/rumored to be going offline soon) and the completely dead Star Wars Galaxies MMO (created in 2003, went offline permanently 2011.) Both were amazing games, great graphics, I played online with other people from around the world, that I had very high level characters in and had spent real $$ entertaining myself within. But player concerns were disregarded and they died.
 

RandomNo.

Well-Known Member
Let's be real about it here. The old system of fixed number of quests and grand prizes had a hard limit on how many key prizes a person could get. It came to a point where one could get all 3 Grand Prizes for no money as long as they were active enough. The following scenarios would be where people spent money:
- to rush through the questline or overcome a certain difficult quest
- to get prizes without having to do quests
- to get more daily prizes

There is not too much incentive for heavy spenders to spend more, as long as they were active enough

Switching to an "unlimited quests, unlimited prizes" format is simply to lift the cap for the heavy spenders. So don't come spewing stupid nonsense about people getting too many prizes. The issue is not us getting too many prizes but getting too many prizes for free. Now nobody is going to fault you for making money for a decent day's work but please don't treat us as simpletons to tell us that it's about balancing or whatever. If it were really about that then go on, scrap the unlimited system and go back to the 3-GP-set-quest system - I dare you! That way you have full control over how many key prizes everyone gets!

The second issue is this: you were so quick to make changes that affect your earnings but players' feedback about the practical feasibility of some quests (scout, unlock tech, burdensome numbers of chapter-1 production buildings needed) or the silly fail-random system have literally fallen on deaf ears. Come on. There is an adage that goes "don't bite the hand that feeds you". Please show that you're wiser than that.
 

Marindor

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
Alright guys, enough dung has been thrown at each other now. I get the frustration about the subject but making it personal (also towards our team members) is not helping anyone, so please keep the discussion about the subject itself. Thank you :)

As I explained before, for us as a company this is a new kind of system as well and we're still learning how to properly balance it. The new system so far shows some positive sides (which we hoped to achieve with it), for example keeping players enganged during the whole event instead of rushing through the questline within a week and have nothing to do anymore but the daily quests, and making it more rewarding for very active players to be able to get more evolution upgrades than less active players.

We also found out it has downsides as well in our current setup. One of these is that the "old" event strategy of building tons of level 1 buildings has way too big an impact in an endless quest system, so we had to adjust something there. I agree with you that the wording "abusing the system" was not in place there, so sorry for one of our team members phrasing it that way. It was a perfectly legit strategy of playing an event. It just had too big an impact in the new mechanics, so we had to make some changes. As you were able to see from the different tweaks with the "Workshops of your current advancement" and stuff, we're not quite there yet, but please allow us some time to find the sweet spot there :) Aside from the feedback, we'll also need to go through the data we're collecting from Live servers and such.

Another downside we found, was the repetition of similar quests. There needs to be more variation in event quests and this is also something we're looking into for future events. It's quite a complicated matter however when you connect it to balancing, so although it might sound as something very simple, it's not just a matter of throwing new quest conditions in. Therefore we weren't able to have this changed in time for this event, but it's certainly a hot topic we're looking into for future events.

All in all, we're still learning how to make these new mechanics work as well and your feedback for that is very helpful. If you have any more good suggestions (and with good suggestions I don't simply mean "get back to the old system", for there is a reason why we changed it ;) ) to make the events work better with the new quest system, please share them. Thank you all :)
 

Dony

King of Bugs
1 of the things which can be usefull for many players is that quest window will show next quest aswell, so they can a bit plan ahead while working on current quest, it will make it a bit easier but its only 1 quest to prepare not 100.
Dealing with repeating quests can be done in many ways, right now we have 2 sets of almost identical 21 quests which keeps swithing between them, it may look random to get scout from first set, and then scout from second quest, but gameply wise its horrible.
Having 2-3 sets where there will be no same quests in them will fix the problem of having same quest in a row, for example have 1 set of easier quests, and 2 sets of harder quests, you will have 3 quests in a row without being same and still random.
 

Karvest

Well-Known Member
2-3 sets is not a solution, you won't get 2-3 same quests in a row, but would get 2-3 same combinations of quests in a row. For me it's not a big difference if you get 3x11 relics+3x45 encounters+3x scout or you get 3x(11 relics+45 encounters+scout).
 

UlyssesBlue

Well-Known Member
I really like Dony's suggestion of having the next quest shown in advance. That would really help bring back the planning aspect of the event, which is one of the things I miss the most. That and the storyline.
 

Brummbaer

Well-Known Member
From my point of view it's quite easy to solve:
1.)Have ONE set of quests (maybe 25)
2.)Scramble it and walk through
3.)after finishing, scramble again (increase the difficulty by multiply x.xx)
and so on

Benefit:
No repetation of quests (only one possibility at the end of one cycle and at the beginning of the next one)
All players have the same task in a different order

@Dony

Great idea to have a forcast for the next one
 

lika1961

Well-Known Member
I appreciate the fact that you want to improve a system, although your explanation of why that would be necessary still seems illogical. I have an extreme urge to rage-quit, but in the interest of world peace, I will use my words and say that you should make a serious effort to find out what players are actually doing in their cities and how this new system influences them and their future participation in events. And you can add me to the "will not participate in future" list.
 

Maillie

Well-Known Member
I am trying to understand a difference here. The devs gave us a great little event called Fellowship Adventures. The ones that are between, or have finished, their chapters set up dozens of level 1 workshops and manufactories to try to help their fellowship get to the end of the game faster, and get more rewards. I have never looked at that as cheating. I believe most fellowships do the same thing, and I doubt that they think of it as subversive either. In some instances one of my live cities got a building, and we even got the top ten event building, which would have been impossible if we had to use current level workshops and manufactories.

How is it cheating if we get more in the event by setting up a myriad of size ones, but it's not cheating if we do the same thing in the FA? In the FA you know what you are playing for. You are only allowed certain prizes at the end of each map. Everyone that contributes and makes it to the end of the map gets those rewards. Some use size ones, some use diamonds (not required in any of my cities, but it's certainly available), some are in the middle of chapters and do the best they can.

The devs wisely put a limit on the amount of prizes that could be won in the FA. How we got them, or how quickly we finished, became no real issue. I am having a difficult time comprehending why the entire event method needs to be altered so drastically as to make it not worth doing any more if there only needed to be a limit placed on the amount of event rewards. Someone might complain? No one makes them play if they are upset that they can't get 10 Mermaids fully evolved. The rest of us were happy if we got one.
 

Marindor

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
@Maillie maybe my previous post wasn't clear enough on that point: It's not about "cheating". There's nothing wrong with that strategy, the only point is that in the new event quest setup, it would result in too much event currency being too easily obtainable and therefore disrupting the balance, so for the events we had to find a solution for that :)
 

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
I for one, definitely don't want to go back to the old quest system. I love this new setup.
I had a hard time getting enough artifacts to upgrade 1 phoenix to max.
This event i allready have 2 bears at max, and can dream of getting more.
I still dont get why so many people are complaining, ive been nusing time boosts and had a blast, and ive been winning a lot of time boosts back from the opening the 'chests'. So for me this event is pure fun. Im only sad i cant spend more time on game and have to work during the day etc... :)
 

Loki Blue

Well-Known Member
I still dont get why so many people are complaining
Go back and really read what some of us are saying. I'm glad you're having such a good time, but it's not so for all of us. I'm glad you have two Bears at max, that's great. I can't even get my one maxed. Why? Because of the idiotic repetitive quests I got stuck behind, and getting dragged down by having to upgrade all three of my Marble manufactories and three of my four workshops to their required levels. I'm happy for you that you have so many time boosts to blow through...I didn't have a bank of them, and what I had was exhausted pretty quickly on those upgrades and 24+ hour scouts that I kept getting.
 

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
Go back and really read what some of us are saying. I'm glad you're having such a good time, but it's not so for all of us. I'm glad you have two Bears at max, that's great. I can't even get my one maxed. Why? Because of the idiotic repetitive quests I got stuck behind, and getting dragged down by having to upgrade all three of my Marble manufactories and three of my four workshops to their required levels. I'm happy for you that you have so many time boosts to blow through...I didn't have a bank of them, and what I had was exhausted pretty quickly on those upgrades and 24+ hour scouts that I kept getting.
you are right, im a hoarder, i always save all my stuff for worse times. Those came in handy now. But even without a bank, you could get quite some time boost from the event in one of the first days, and with those, manage to get more keys so you could even get more time boosts later on.
And not even 1 maxed, thats no different then how it was in phoenix event? BTW even tho i have 2 now, that doesnt make much difference on the long run anyway, ill never manage to produce enough pet food to have those 2 + phoenix active when i want. I just had fun throught the event.

Im gonna get shitstorm on me for saying this: Ive read what you are all saying, and if i summarise it, i would say be: i hate this event,
because i have to invest in it before i can get something out of it, i want it to be effortless free goodies. Investing being either, using time boost to finish productions/quests, or being building extra workshops/manufactories to be able to do more quests. Or doing more tournament provinces then you usually do.
I've invested, and gotten back more out of it then ive put in. So i'm very happy. But as ive said, im a hoarder, so i had lots of stuff to invest in first place.
 

soleil

Guest
I for one do not Buy KP unless required to do so by an event and then I resent it. I also do not typically craft a lot in the MA outside of events so getting those quests is definitely not based on my play style. I also do not tend to scout or complete provinces other than enough to open the next chapter as I do not enjoy the battle system. So, if IG is basing it on anyone's game style it is definitely not mine :)
Thanks @Kasia good to know. I'm just not experiencing the same things on live as others. I'm stuck in a few places but one is because it's a chapter 2 city and another two I've chosen not to advance my city yet or it's already advanced and I'm not working on my map. I'm not using any sort of speed boosts either with the event or diamonds. I have 1 factory that does the factory productions and between 4 and 6 workshops. So for me, I'm with happy with the event. I don't intend to evolve any of the bear buildings and will replace them with future event stuff.
 

Martha Bunker

Well-Known Member
@Marindor said: The new system so far shows some positive sides (which we hoped to achieve with it), for example keeping players enganged during the whole event instead of rushing through the questline within a week and have nothing to do anymore but the daily quests,

My thought: I loved making an excel sheet of 100 quests, planning them very accurately and then feeling good that I could all do them with my small buildings and succeeding in the fastest way. That was a goal, nothing left of that anymore.


@Marindor said: Another downside we found, was the repetition of similar quests. There needs to be more variation in event quests and this is also something we're looking into for future events.

Therefore we weren't able to have this changed in time for this event, but it's certainly a hot topic we're looking into for future events.

My thought: Why all the hurry? I wouldn't mind if we had no zodiac event, but just had a halloween event in October. So that I could do some work in my city without any event.

In the past I have often seen people say, "you don't have to participate, it's totally free". Till the last 2 events, I had to laugh, who wouldn't want to participate???
Well these last two events I stopped early, because I lost all pleasure. And actually I learned something by doing so, I realy don't need such events as there are now.
I'm sorry, this is not such positive feeback, but it's still feedback and I'm afraid I'm not the only one thinking like this.
 

ashrem

Well-Known Member
Ive read what you are all saying, and if i summarise it, i would say be: i hate this event
I think you are wrong. I, too went in with a huge number of timer instants, and have managed to collect around 7500 keys, and I still think it's a poor event. The quests are tedious, they repeat to often, they don't teach us anything about the event or our cities or the history of Elvenar. The mechanic is boring. People need to feel like if they work hard they have a decent chance of getting the best prize. They shouldn't have to have hundreds of timer instants to avoid being bored by an event.

The developers seem to be struggling to manage pace, and failing in the struggle. If events are intended to engage players, then they need to be engaging. Regardless of how easy or difficult the current mechanic is, it is tedious and not engaging.