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Discussion [Discussion] Release Notes version 1.22

DeletedUser1657

Guest
My biggest issue with the wholesaler is that it was boring and nearly useless.

Absolutely agree, I would love to see an update to the wholesaler bring something interesting to it. Such an improvement would also help with the "swallowing a bitter pill". I also think many players who focus solely on the catering side would love to see some more interest in what could be done with the trader.
 

Brummbaer

Well-Known Member
Here is an other point we have to look at.

The Blooming Trader Guild

One of the benefits WAS the decrease to the Trader Fee. Now with the new price politics the benefit is gone with the second trade.

(OK, the benefit is present, but the result is worse)
 

Dony

King of Bugs
Here is an other point we have to look at.

The Blooming Trader Guild

One of the benefits WAS the decrease to the Trader Fee. Now with the new price politics the benefit is gone with the second trade.

(OK, the benefit is present, but the result is worse)
Trader fee is related to trading with your undiscovered neighbors and not wholesaler
 

Brummbaer

Well-Known Member
That's correct Dony, but there is the second aspect that the trader expand the offer by a bonus you get from the Blooming Trader guild.
(The increase of the Wholesaler Offer Improvement)
Sorry I have explained bad.
 

Dony

King of Bugs
If second trade has same amount of goods like first trade, then benefit is same. Or does the amount go down after first trade? Without BTG amount of goods is still the same, only cost increases
 

DeletedUser1596

Guest
Hi guys, I just want to point out, that trader fee becomes more and more pointless as you expand your territory. Right now I have over 200 discovered neighbours which means that trader fee is out of game. Moreover 90% of all trades are within fellowship. I wouldn't recomment building the Trader Guild to decrease trader fee. It will lose it's purpose.
 

DeletedUser1877

Guest
Why not build it, use it for as long as needed, then sell it when it "loses it's purpose"?
 

Wowwie

Well-Known Member
I don't like the fact that Inno made the wholesaler so.... prohibitive.

My baby beta city took several days to get through a research last month because it needed far more t2 goods than neighbors were willing to trade (neighbors weren't willing to trade ANY). I finally ended up saving up coins to buy all the t2 goods I needed (I think it was 250 of each) and it still took forever to save up the coins, without factoring in having to either buy them in tiny batches with price increasing massively each time or waiting for it to reset at my low level main hall purchase ability)

On my live city, I am sometimes forced to resort to buying steel from the wholesaler some tournaments-which-require-steel tournament weeks because between people needing steel for research and people needing steel for the tournaments, the ten thousand steel I need for completing one level of one tournament province because the province difficulty scales with the number of provinces you have and I'm far outside what Inno thinks is appropriate is sometimes bought from the wholesaler (also to get rid of coins).

So now Inno is penalizing me, again, for scouting farther than they wanted me to, not knowing that it was farther than they wanted me to, and then participating in the events Inno made that made me scout even farther than they wanted me to, by making it impossible for me to get enough steel because my tournament steel costs are so expensive. The tournaments aren't even increasing my province range. They're supposed to be just for getting rune shards. So apparently I can't even do Inno's accepted way to get rune shards because I scouted farther than they didn't tell me I couldn't scout past to get rune shards? Lovely Inno.

a 50% markup of original price is simply too prohibitive, especially given the quantities the new wholesaler is dealing in. People who don't have sufficient active neighbors to obtain quantities of goods required to unlock research in their research tree shouldn't be penalized for trying to progress by buying from the wholesaler. People whose tournament costs have gone so high that when their boosted good comes up in a tournament they completely exhaust their fellowship members' supply of tournament goods shouldn't be penalized for trying to participate. The obvious solution is to simply turn to fighting.... but so many people came to this game because they suck at fighting games and don't want to fight. They shouldn't be penalized for not wanting to.

Unless Inno wants to rebrand Elvenar as a turn based strategy game because that's what they're trying to turn it into, Elvenar is a city building game and combat is optional. Changes to force players to turn to fighting are therefore completely contrary to Inno's marketing tactics. Deceptive marketing tactics? This perhaps, in my mind, crosses the line between "changes are expected during online play" and "deceptive bait and switch tactics". I accept that Blizzard will make patches to World of Warcraft, some of which I don't like, but the game will always involve players forming raids and killing bosses. I don't expect them to ever release a patch which turns World of Warcraft into a Pokemon esque game, removing all the bosses and making optional battle pet battles the only way to progress your character, because that's deceptive practices, promising people a game with raiding bosses and giving them Pokemon. Inno promised us a city builder. Not a turn based strategy game like Civ. Actually that's a bad comparison because Civ actually has legitimately peaceful winning methods.
 

Wowwie

Well-Known Member
You have said it in words way better than I could Inno are not going to keep any new players with this wholesaler
you know the problem with the trader isnt the wholesaler at al
l its the trader itself is totally out of wack,
It the players with the unfair trades that sit for weeks on the trader not removing them
I have never had an issue with the wholesale
if its not broke dont fix it fix what is broken getting fixed would be nice
but Inno will do what Inno wants
it seems small player small city small cash flow is not a priority
 

DeletedUser1721

Guest
I would like to add something that just occurred to me.

When I am eventually forced to buy goods from the wholesaler because no one accepted my trades for several days... I need the goods RIGHT THEN. I don't buy goods from the wholesaler at the beginning of starting to research the technology. I buy goods from the wholesaler at the END, when I've exhausted all other options to get that good and come up empty handed. In this situation, being forced another x days waiting for the trader to reset on top of the y days spent actually putting KP into the technology is excruciating. Putting KP into another technology just exacerbates the problem because it forces me to effectively try to save up for two researches at one time. I could donate KP to fellowship members' ancient wonders, but I don't currently have space in my beta city to place any wonders (the training grounds is so very much in the way. Seriously, it's the 3x3 square I would be putting a golden abyss into if I could) and don't anticipate getting the space any time soon since I still have three workshops that need to be upgraded to be bigger and won't even have room for those for a while because there aren't enough expansions available for everything Inno requires me to build.
 

lika1961

Well-Known Member
I feel like I am stuck in a never-ending cycle. Kind of like Bill Murray in Groundhog Day.

Changes are made. Often unnecessary and irrelevant changes, but they affect important parts of the game.
The players start pointing out things that Inno seemingly overlooked.
The players report all the new bugs (often unrelated to anything that was changed).
The players think about it for a bit and then point out even more things that are affected by the latest changes that Inno seemingly overlooked.
The same 2 or 3 players see it as their duty to point out that some of the other players' thoughts are incorrect, technically flawed or just stupid.
A few players (who are not really affected by the latest changes) point out that it is not so bad.
There is always an eternal optimist who points out a new and sensible way of making the current change acceptable.
A lower level player points out to a very experienced player that they don't know anything.
Someone reminds everyone that each player plays the way he wants and that your opinion is fine, but everyone is different.
Someone else initiates a conversation about the latest problem with the fighting units that we all must have but can't really use.
Someone points out that it is a lack of understanding that makes the battle system appear crap. If you just understand it, you will be fine.
Small players remind everyone that they exist and how this affects them.
The big players suddenly remember what the small ones are talking about and feel sorry for them.
Someone states that this is city building game and not a combat game.
Inno eventually comments to say thank you for your valuable feedback. We will look at it and let you know whether we will fix anything or not.
A few superficial things might get changed, causing a whole new range of bugs.
We wait a week or two and then repeat the process.

Still, next week might be different, right?
 

DeletedUser1767

Guest
I don't see why, if Inno wants to do this with escalating costs, it is necessary for them to inflict this on the small cities as well. It's tied to the level of the main hall; why not have it set so that until a player has unlocked the first Main Hall Upgrade tech and upgraded the hall to Advanced, their costs at the Wholesaler stay fixed and don't escalate? That seems like it ought to be easy to do.

Also, if they insist on doing this, they really need to make it easier for players and fellowships to find each other. Small cities should not be stranded out there with no one to take their trades and no way to get the goods they need without bankrupting themselves.
 

DeletedUser1884

Guest
Anybody knows what is officially the reason behind making Wholesaler completely useless?
What are they hoping to achieve by that?

From what I can see there is no possible positive outcome - the only logical result will be even more frustrated new players leaving this game.
Why? Because working with wholesaler extensively was the only available tool how to progress decently fast at the beginning of the game (first 3 chapters at least). Do not get me wrong, it did require some serious heavy clicking but at least the option was there.
Nobody else except for those novice players ever needs to use wholesaler so it really only destroys the game for those new ones.

I am willing to consider any logical explanation as I failed to find any so far.
 

DeletedUser1884

Guest
I believe I read something about wanting players to trade with each other instead of just using the wholesaler, which shows just how out of touch the developers can be, since no one was doing that.
I seriously hope that is not the case as such "idea" would fail on multiple levels
- impossible to get into decent FS when you start
- even if you get super lucky and find active low level FS, you can produce so little at the beginning that there is nothing left to trade
- later on everyone trades only with players once their own production gets from nothing to some reasonable numbers

Unless INNO believes that it is great idea to force new cities into crawl because everybody enjoys seeing that you can never even get close to those on the top, right? :rolleyes:
 

DeletedUser1665

Guest
Chapter III (1/2 way through anyway). Level 9 Main Hall, I have not and will never purchase any Tier 3 goods at this price, what a rip off and yes the image shows the initial offering 120k coin for only 16 Elixer or Dust (what can you do with 16?). Seriously if the price of goods did not go up (which they do with each purchase) if my Main Hall was at it's limit and I emptied it, I would only get 160 Elixer or Dust.
 

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