Discussion [Discussion] Release Notes version 1.22

[ALdbeign]

Well, that's a start, thanks!

 

[DeletedUser118]

Does anyone have a breakdown of what the quantities are for the different MH levels? I see that level 15 is 150 T1 goods from the posts. My MH is level 3 and I can buy 10 T1 5 T2 and 5 T3 so it clearly isn't a 10 per level thing.

You mean the amount of goods you can buy at a certain MH level?

Hmm on level 23 it says:

T1 = 430
T2 = 380
T3 = 385

 

[ALdbeign]

Thank you Katzenprinz! I feel that the devs should be providing this information. Honestly, to drop a change of this size on beta and then just be like "the details are your problem and btw we need your feedback before we make it live next week".... um yeah

 

[SoggyShorts]

Thank you Katzenprinz! I feel that the devs should be providing this information. Honestly, to drop a change of this size on beta and then just be like "the details are your problem and btw we need your feedback before we make it live next week".... um yeah

Seriously, how hard would it be to have a Beta Wiki that is updated at the same time as Beta?
There are a dozen players that would volunteer to do that if given access to the information.

 

[DeletedUser118]

Creating a list like that shouldn't be too much of problem for somebody with access to a test world.

If my english was better I would volunteer to help with the Wiki as well. ^^

 

[SoggyShorts]

If my english was better I would volunteer to help with the Wiki as well. ^^

Lol, have you seen some of the posts from native English speakers? (myself included)
Your English is great

 

[PrimroseSylvia]

I wouldn't mind getting the old Wholesaler back either. It was just fine the way it was.

However, you should maybe talk to some of your fellows and ask them to pick up your smaller trades as you really need them. It shouldn't be a big problem for them with their bigger cities and a great help for you. I often pick up small trades as well, cuz I know I'm helping a smaller player, no matter if he's from my fellowship or not.

Yes, you're right and in fact they help me but I don't like ask for help everytime I'm in need; I 'd like to be able to do on my own too... Is it so wrong?

 

[DeletedUser802]

I wouldn't mind getting the old Wholesaler back either. It was just fine the way it was.

I too want the wholesaler back the way it was. As it stands now, I get a lot less goods for my coins---how does that benefit anyone? I really wish the designers would remember the old adage "if its' not broke, don't fix it!" There was nothing wrong with the wholesaler the way it was, so how does changing it help anyone? Frankly, the wholesaler was never a primary source for goods, it is just a useful way to get rid of your excess coins and get at least something of value for them. I trade regularly, so my use of the wholesaler has no effect on my trading. But if I can't get goods for my excess coins, what is the point in continuing to collect them? They tried this nonsense of changing the wholesaler once before, and it was a disaster. While this is not quite the disaster that their last attempt was, it is certainly not something that players will welcome.

 

[DeletedUser1877]

I assume the part starting at " I too want the wholesaler back the way it was." is yours Michele, and I agree with you.

 

[DeletedUser118]

Yes, you're right and in fact they help me but I don't like ask for help everytime I'm in need; I 'd like to be able to do on my own too... Is it so wrong?

Not at all. Its just the best way to deal with the current situation.

 

[DeletedUser1759]

Hey guys!

Thanks for your very detailed feedback. I've gathered them and forwarded it for review.
If you have more feedback regarding the Wholesaler, please keep it coming! (remember to be detailed, just saying 'this is wrong' does not really help us unless you also say why it is wrong Pretend to be explaining the issue to the biggest noob you have ever seen)

Thanks again!

 

[DeletedUser]

Some time ago I started new city and I was able to exploit repeatable quests + Trader to the level of insanity. It should be changed. I know lots of people will scream&shout but at the moment it's all wrong.
I'm waiting impatiently to have repeatable quests gone. I mean it.

It is indeed possible for new players to exploit the repeatable quests "gain 40 (t-1) goods" to the level of insanity. But if that is the only form of abusing the wholesaler, why not just remove those quests? Inno did so with the train x units" quest, so it's not that it never happened before.
I think Inno didn't really think this through. I've read here that more and more players are catering in tournaments. But that's also up to the level of insanity, because catering in tournaments is extremely expansive, especially when you consider the meager rewards. Catering in tournaments means that you need a lot of goods, and since everybody is asking for the same goods during a tournaments, trade goes haywire. The biggest problem I think with trade is that more and more players are placing huge 0- or 1-star offers (even for offering t3 and asking t1), and ignore the small 2- or even 3-stars offers from fledglings. For that reason alone the new players really need the wholesaler.

So, in my humble opinion there was nothing wrong with the wholesaler, but a lot wrong with trading behavior.

 

[DeletedUser1657]

It is indeed possible for new players to exploit the repeatable quests "gain 40 (t-1) goods" to the level of insanity. But if that is the only form of abusing the wholesaler, why not just remove those quests? Inno did so with the train x units" quest, so it's not that it never happened before.

If that was the only form of abuse I am sure they would have done something like that. Although I am also reasonably sure those quests are to encourage a new person to trade for the non-boost good not buy them in an endless clicking cycle. People using the trader to generate 1000's of goods or even reduce T1 factories as they buy the goods so they can use more T2 or T3 factories is more likely the issue.

Catering in tournaments means that you need a lot of goods, and since everybody is asking for the same goods during a tournaments, trade goes haywire.

This has always been the case and it settled down after the first week or two of tournaments been introduced as people either stopped, adjusted factories, or upped boosts. It is likely to sort itself out again after the sudden resurgence to do tournaments.

The biggest problem I think with trade is that more and more players are placing huge 0- or 1-star offers (even for offering t3 and asking t1), and ignore the small 2- or even 3-stars offers from fledglings. For that reason alone the new players really need the wholesaler.

I disagree, I have towns at era 1, 2, 3 and have no issue getting trades and 2 of those are not in fellowships, so with almost no neighbours discovered they are very reliant on neighbours taking tiny trades. There are so more (and better) options for a new player then using the wholesaler, it should be a port of last resort.

So, in my humble opinion there was nothing wrong with the wholesaler, but a lot wrong with trading behavior.

I completely agree but you can't alter 1000's of different peoples behaviour so how do you encourage people to alter their behaviour other then make what they are doing less attractive to encourage other alternatives? If I had an answer I would be suggesting it.

 

[DeletedUser1877]

Crazy thought, but to encourage use of the trader, as well as encouraging accepting all those tiny 50 unit trades from small players, what if every xth (x=10,000?) total trade, the trader gave a bonus (KP maybe). Would require a hidden counter at server level., but shouldn't be hard to make happen. Could even expand it for larger gifts at million mark.

Reward desirable behavior, works better than punishment.

 

[Dony]

in my humble opinion there was nothing wrong with the wholesaler

The biggest problem with wholesaler was that it does not scaled with chapters, i can manage to produce 100k t1 non boosted goods in 1 single day with wholesaler only and it would be more and more with each chapter (that would mean that i could delete all t1 manufactories). That has to be stopped. But i dont agree with implemented scaling now because it doesnt take into account that people in lower chapters have lower amount of neighbors = less possible coins/supplies gain, then player on the end of chapter 9.

 

[DeletedUser1721]

Hey guys!

Thanks for your very detailed feedback. I've gathered them and forwarded it for review.
If you have more feedback regarding the Wholesaler, please keep it coming! (remember to be detailed, just saying 'this is wrong' does not really help us unless you also say why it is wrong Pretend to be explaining the issue to the biggest noob you have ever seen)

Thanks again!

When this had come out on beta the first time, I wasn't done getting my alt cities to dwarves so I could see what their tournament experience was like, compared to the city that was in dwarves and way ahead of the required provinces (maybe my bad experiences with tournaments was just a sharp difficulty increase in dwarves). Now that's not the case anymore, I have multiple cities which are not many provinces over the limit in dwarves and their tournament goods requirements are tiny compared to what I needed on my main city when it was in dwarves.

I can therefore conclusively say that this wholesaler change is extremely harmful to people who still, even after all this time, are far ahead of where they should be on the world map, when it is combined with the fellowship tournament aspect. You've set up a situation where everyone in a fellowship needs to participate to even have a hope of obtaining the earlier prizes, let alone the later ones, and at almost the same time taken away a big source of goods for the people who need ten times as many goods as the other members of their fellowship to progress in tournaments.

While also encouraging people to not waste space on "extra" manufactories by severely cutting the availability of province expansions and introducing huge buildings that take up space without adding any more. So the supply of goods (that some people need ten times as many as the "normal" value of) is constricted, while their need is increased tenfold. That's not trying to make the game fair, that's being cruel for no reason. And, again, I maintain that "you should just fight in tournaments" isn't an answer because there is a large population of people who just plain don't like to fight, and who joined this game because it was a city builder, not a turn based strategy game.

 

[CrazyWizard]

How long since the woodelf wonders were released?

WHAT ABOUT FIXING THE DAMN BUG THAT EXISTS SINCE IT"S INTRODUCTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's still there, you still get shroom runes instead of enars or academie runes for help places 2+

dont you even think thats ridiculous?

 

[DeletedUser1777]

I mentioned it elsewhere in Forum, but this would have been the right place for it. Just to get sure Inno really gets the message, I'll quote myself

There is a bad side effect with the massive increase of costs at the wholesaler:
Why should I visit my neighbours (waiste 1 hour) to dump afterwards my coins for almost nothing?

Don't get me wrong, it's okay when it's getting from trade to trade more expensive, but the raise is chosen too hard.
Wouldn't be 10% (of the basic trade amount) with every trade enough raise? So it's still getting very expensive, when you want to buy large amounts.

Again you're hitting the small players very hard. They won't get visited and it's already hard enough to get the needed ressources to forward in tech tree.
Why don't you understand this big rocks you are placing in their way will have the effect of losing the interest in playing Elvenar?

AND:
In our feedback to the last change of wholesaler we already mentioned the increase is way to hard, yes you lowered it a bit, but not enough!

 

[Buttrflwr]

And what makes you decide I haven't tried that? The fact remains - the wholesaler is / was a convenience to the very large players, an easy way to use excess coins and goods, many have stated that. The fact still remains, trades for 50 units can remain listed for in excess of 24 hours, especially if the player is not in a FS. And finding a decent FS to take you early on is not easy either. So, I repeat - the wholesaler was vital to the newest players being able to get a decent start.

EXACTLY why I had such a come apart the first time they did this, I was STUCK, and no one would take my 10 elixir, or whatever cross tier trade. I yelled loud enough that @Mykan was kind enough to invite me to his FS, and I have been fine since, but not everyone is so lucky. Why would a player in a new game play something that they can't go anywhere in? If no one is taking the trades, and they can't afford the wholesaler, WHY WOULD THEY COME BACK? BORING!

I don't like the new wholesaler. No, I hate the new wholesaler. I'm a small player, I'm on chapter II. I've got 5 planks and 1 scroll manufactories at level 2; I'm lucky, I'm in a big fellowship and have big neighbors, but... They're big and I'm small. I can't trade thousands goods like they do but just a few hundreds, so I need an equal wholesaler
I wanna play, I wanna grow up, don't wanna complain about the game.

Just think if you WEREN'T in an FS. At least you can do like I do, and ask your FS to take your trades. Not everyone is lucky enough to get an FS to pick them up as a beginning player. This wholesaler is going to be the death of new players if you bring this to live.

I wouldn't mind getting the old Wholesaler back either. It was just fine the way it was.

However, you should maybe talk to some of your fellows and ask them to pick up your smaller trades as you really need them. It shouldn't be a big problem for them with their bigger cities and a great help for you. I often pick up small trades as well, cuz I know I'm helping a smaller player, no matter if he's from my fellowship or not.

You want feedback, read those. I was a VERY small player, like chapter 2 or maybe the beginning of 3 when you dropped that first wholesaler on us. It WAS A DISASTER, NO ONE would pick up my cross tier itty bitty trades, and I couldn't move without it, which is why I had such a come apart on you over that disaster. You are looking at this from the point of bigger players, who have ADMITTED they don't NEED the wholesaler, just want to USE it. SMALL PLAYERS NEED IT!!!!!!!!!!! Make it more viable for them to advance with it. The price now is utterly, utterly RIDICULOUS for smaller players. If you must gouge people, don't do it to the little guy, do it to the ones that can afford it. (Sorry bigger players) I am only in chapter 4, but when I see small trades that I can take, I TAKE THEM, even if it isn't my boost. And I RARELY even open the wholesaler anymore, because I don't need it, but there are those that do. Come on @innogames , make this a viable option for players to grow. If we can't do that, why would we stay. Reduce your prices, especially for smaller players, keep the 24 hour reset, that is something that is a good thing.

 

[SoggyShorts]

If you have more feedback regarding the Wholesaler, please keep it coming!

My biggest issue with the wholesaler is that it was boring and nearly useless. All it was good for was emergencies and dumping KP/coins.
The first attempt to change it made it interesting, but removed the functionality.
This second attempt removed the interesting, and retained most of the functionality, but at a huge reduction.

The worst section is still the least used section- the leftmost column. Almost never did it make sense to trade goods at 5:1, now that the ratio is WAY worse than 5:1 it will NEVER make sense.

That's why I'm suggesting making the wholesaler appealing without encouraging players to use it instead of trading.
See the link in my signature for the idea.