• Dear forum reader,

    To actively participate on the forum by joining discussions or starting your own threads or topics, you need a game account and to REGISTER HERE!

Discussion [Discussion] Release Notes version 1.22

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
There is always a way to justify a decision, whether it makes sense or not. If the current incarnation of the wholesaler is here to stay (which I don't doubt it is), can we please have an alternative to get rid of excess coins and supplies.
Maybe they can add some kind of lottery. You buy a ticket (with coins or hammers) and the ticket can give you this in return: coins, hammers, kp, a spell, a relic, a runeshard, a blueprint or a diamond

a bit like the the chests in the last event or the summer solstice event.
It would sure give us something fun to do with out money/coins :)
 

DeletedUser1877

Guest
Sounds good when you say it, but I have three 50 unit, 2 star, tier 1 trades over 24 hours old. Must be dust to the folk with all those 50K trades listed
 

DeletedUser283

Guest
the only "positive" effect of the way the wholesaler now operates is that it effectively drains excess coins :D
"it's draining coins, hallelujah" :p
(sorry, really, deeply sorry, but I cannot resist a pun :cool: )
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser1665

Guest
A lower level player can get 1000 Marble for less than 4000 Planks by using the trade window, even on this server. It's even easier on live. This is not the primary purpose of the Wholesaler.

In the middle of Chapter III Rank on server 7584 Tier 1 planks with relics 266 Boost

Wholesaler results:

1st trade 325 planks for 65 marble
2nd trade 488 planks for 65 marble
3rd trade 650 planks for 65 marble
4th trade 813 planks for 65 marble
5th trade 975 planks for 65 marble

That is 3251 planks for 325 marble so I say you need to re do your math!

Honestly I WISH the developers would concentrate more on making the end of the Research (knowledge) Tree and building more harder if they want to slow the progress of players down, rather then mess with the core game all the way back to chapter I where we got the trader/wholesaler to begin with.All of this Retro stuff is making this game unpopular with a lot of people on all servers. It is a good thing that all of the complaining is on this forum as well as a few outside gaming forums because if INNO decided to advertise this game on TV here in the US like they do FOE their reputation would sink into the water closet.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser1721

Guest
I don't like the fact that Inno made the wholesaler so.... prohibitive.

My baby beta city took several days to get through a research last month because it needed far more t2 goods than neighbors were willing to trade (neighbors weren't willing to trade ANY). I finally ended up saving up coins to buy all the t2 goods I needed (I think it was 250 of each) and it still took forever to save up the coins, without factoring in having to either buy them in tiny batches with price increasing massively each time or waiting for it to reset at my low level main hall purchase ability)

On my live city, I am sometimes forced to resort to buying steel from the wholesaler some tournaments-which-require-steel tournament weeks because between people needing steel for research and people needing steel for the tournaments, the ten thousand steel I need for completing one level of one tournament province because the province difficulty scales with the number of provinces you have and I'm far outside what Inno thinks is appropriate is sometimes bought from the wholesaler (also to get rid of coins).

So now Inno is penalizing me, again, for scouting farther than they wanted me to, not knowing that it was farther than they wanted me to, and then participating in the events Inno made that made me scout even farther than they wanted me to, by making it impossible for me to get enough steel because my tournament steel costs are so expensive. The tournaments aren't even increasing my province range. They're supposed to be just for getting rune shards. So apparently I can't even do Inno's accepted way to get rune shards because I scouted farther than they didn't tell me I couldn't scout past to get rune shards? Lovely Inno.

a 50% markup of original price is simply too prohibitive, especially given the quantities the new wholesaler is dealing in. People who don't have sufficient active neighbors to obtain quantities of goods required to unlock research in their research tree shouldn't be penalized for trying to progress by buying from the wholesaler. People whose tournament costs have gone so high that when their boosted good comes up in a tournament they completely exhaust their fellowship members' supply of tournament goods shouldn't be penalized for trying to participate. The obvious solution is to simply turn to fighting.... but so many people came to this game because they suck at fighting games and don't want to fight. They shouldn't be penalized for not wanting to.

Unless Inno wants to rebrand Elvenar as a turn based strategy game because that's what they're trying to turn it into, Elvenar is a city building game and combat is optional. Changes to force players to turn to fighting are therefore completely contrary to Inno's marketing tactics. Deceptive marketing tactics? This perhaps, in my mind, crosses the line between "changes are expected during online play" and "deceptive bait and switch tactics". I accept that Blizzard will make patches to World of Warcraft, some of which I don't like, but the game will always involve players forming raids and killing bosses. I don't expect them to ever release a patch which turns World of Warcraft into a Pokemon esque game, removing all the bosses and making optional battle pet battles the only way to progress your character, because that's deceptive practices, promising people a game with raiding bosses and giving them Pokemon. Inno promised us a city builder. Not a turn based strategy game like Civ. Actually that's a bad comparison because Civ actually has legitimately peaceful winning methods.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser1877

Guest
Caanna, not gonna quote all that, but you just made me realize..... Right now, EVERYBODY will be needing the same resources for this tourney, so trades will be harder to come by. Supply and demand. Perhaps, for tourneys the Wholesaler should be discounting the most needed resource? Not that it will happen.
 

DeletedUser1721

Guest
Yeah, I kinda wrote a short post and then started thinking about it and added more and more and more. Then I split it into paragraphs.

It's not so much a problem with EVERYONE needing resources for tournaments. It's a problem that anyone who has as many provinces over the maximum Inno belatedly added to the game as my main city does will be experiencing. I have another alt city that I am using to test what happens in tournaments if you stay in the Goldilocks zone, and its per province level of a tournament costs of the related goods is something like a couple hundred. Maybe a thousand in the very highest levels of provinces. My main city goes through TEN THOUSAND of a good. I've been "good" and not scouted any more provinces on my main city except when Inno released an event that made me take provinces and scout more since they added the limitations. It's still ten times as many goods for me to do tournaments... which Inno supposedly WANTS me to do as an alternative to conquering provinces on the map... as my cities that are in the Goldilocks zone.

At least in theory your neighbors have access to different trading networks than you. But your fellowship members ARE your trading network. Fellowship based tournaments means that even people who don't need a good for boosts are still going to be trying to participate to help the people who do have boosts. If you don't have good neighbors (and I don't, the only people near me who want to trade t1 goods are outside my trading range and posting one star trades even if I was close which means they're 0 star trades with the trader fee) there's a finite amount of goods you can access through your fellowship's trading when your boosted good comes around, and if you're also stuck in Inno Hates You land, you're... well, the word I want to use isn't appropriate on the forums, but I guess "out of luck" sort of gets the point across.

The old wholesaler at least allowed players who were in Inno Hates You land to progress by buying goods through the wholesaler to make up for the fact that their tournament costs are ridiculously draining on their fellowship. Now.... it's a lot harder to do that without damaging your fellowship in the process, and wasn't the point of tournaments supposed to be "do this for rune shards instead of getting provinces on the world map"?

What, are all the people in Inno Hates You land going to eventually be kicked out of their fellowships because, through no fault of their own, they are unable to help their fellowship in fellowship tournaments as much as required? That is the healthy thing for the fellowship to do. Not so much healthy for the players, but healthy for the fellowship. This is actually the first change Inno has made that I actively feel is unethical. I can understand that they think there's a logic behind punishing people for progressing too far on the world map. I can understand that the arbitrary definition of "too far" in their heads makes sense to them. I can understand, and appreciate, the fact that they apologized to the people who have progressed too far, and I can understand the fact that they sincerely believe that this makes the game better for all the other players.

I can't understand making a change which will force players out of their fellowships, players who have spent money on the game, simply because they progressed too far in the game. That's not ethical. It's a game that is based on being in a fellowship for trade because your world map is mostly dead, and now paying customers will likely be jettisoned from their fellowships if no further change is made.

Possible changes that would fix this:

Increase the amount of goods the wholesaler offers so that the BASE amount is 500 of a good and goes up from there. This has the downside of penalizing the people who only want 250 of a good to get past that one research that's so hard to get the 250 of each t2 good for (which one was it again?)

Decrease the scaling costs of the wholesaler to price increasing by 1/10 or even lower each purchase, because I'm pretty sure the big sticking point with regards to buying goods from wholesaler for research is the research that requires 250 of every t2 good immediately after unlocking t2 goods when your boost isn't very high, and at that level you'd get what, 50 of a good per purchase? That's a lot of individual purchases of goods to get up to 250 of each non boosted tier good if your trade network is dead. Also because the other people who are hurt by this, the people whose tournament costs don't mesh well with being in a fellowship of people trying to get a high score, need very high quantities to make up for the fact that they need a lot more of each good than the other people in the fellowship.

Honestly, the method I like best though, is separate the tournament negotiation costs from the number of provinces a player has conquered. If the tournaments are really supposed to be an alternative to getting rune shards from provinces, that means players who are stuck in provinces should be able to participate in the tournaments. It's now a fellowship wide effort to all work on tournaments together. People who have been stuck on the world map since the combat changes went through are therefore detrimental to the fellowship's progression, and that's... really not fair to anyone involved. As far as I can tell the cost in goods increases slightly per research act and severely per distance away from the Goldilocks zone. Keep the slightly per research act factor, and eliminate the distance from Goldilocks zone factor. This would still penalize people who are far out on the world map, because frankly, what the people who are far out on the world map wanted were province expansions and tournaments don't give province expansions, but it would allow these people to coexist in a fellowship with other people who aren't so far out on the world map. I wouldn't care nearly so much about the prohibitive wholesaler changes if I could be certain that I didn't need the wholesaler to make up for the ridiculous tournament costs.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

lika1961

Well-Known Member
Caana, you summed it up perfectly. Some of us live in Inno Hates you Land and it is a sad, sad place. Being punished for imaginary sins and things you should have divined with our telepathic powers. What, we don't have telepathic power? No matter, we will hate you anyway.

It struck me that part of the problem might be that such a small percentage of players actually visit the forum. Perhaps it is time to have a survey outside the forum and find out what players actually think and want. Come on Inno, I dare you. You might learn something that you should have known all along. Like how people actually play the game.
 

DeletedUser1721

Guest
While you posted, I added a section about changes that I thought would fix this. What do you think?
 

DeletedUser736

Guest
I am using auto fight and I get decent from great rewards from tournament. It depends on the week. I never ever cater them, it IS extremely costly. Troops are much much cheaper, and since they only serve a purpose in the tournament since I am locked from fighting on the world map, I really don't mind losing excess troop due to auto fighting. Granted, auto fight only works well in the early rounds, but that is where the juicy rewards are. KP and relics. Relics keep the magic academy running, which in turns produce the spells to make lots of hammers, which in turn produce more troops, which get slaughthered in the tournament on next week. All in all, it's working pretty well, and it does let me pile up on boosted goods and non boosted ones.

As for trades, I am going to say there is A LOT of small player in my neighbourhood, and they very rarely post small trade. Of ccourse, I post big trades, it's senslesss to me to waste my 60 trading slot on small trades. But I accept each and every small trades I happen to seen. I see it ass a "community service" trading 1k of pretty much anything won't impact me, but it will help a new player big time. So I pick them all,
 

DeletedUser908

Guest
ok, so I assume that Inno's stance on the new wholesaler is "so that players can't abuse the system by endlessly purchasing goods ?"
now bear with us :
we advanced players, early adopters, are here since the game started on beta;
our cities are big, with plenty of residences to provide population for our manufactories, barracks, armouries, and workshops (yes, some of us have workshops despise 'abusing' quests to get supplies for free);
we have scouted to ring 13 and beyond, and then we have been told that this was way too far (did we "abuse" scouting/conquering ?);
fine.
so now we do not scout anymore;
would you smart people please tell us how we can spend those insane quantities of coins we get when collecting our residences ?
apart from scouting, and funding one research when we manage to accumulate enough guest race goods, nothing in this game allows us to spend coins, except buying goods from the wholesaler and KPs;
but why should we purchase KPs when we are already stopped dead in the tech tree and get plenty of KPs from tournaments already ?
and now here comes the new wholesaler to prevent us from byuing "too many goods" ...
don't you guys just realise that we have only 2 reasons for puchasing goods : getting rid of excess coins because of the silly capping in the main hall (after all, nothing prevents us from letting coins rot in residences), and helping to make the market easier for the smaller members of our fellowships;
in this line, we are the motor of our fellowships

if you really want all of us early adopters to quit altogether, why do you not tell us in the first place ?

I totally agree. I hated the last change to the wholesaler, and I hate this one. I cannot collect any more coins, and I have to have my residences at the highest level they can be at because I need the population to run my production buildings. In the past, I used the Wholesaler to get rid of excess gold. Now, the pricing there has made that impossible. So more than 75 pct of my residences are sitting full up with coins that I can't collect. Have you thought if INCREASING the number of coins the Main Hall can hold? Because mine is at the highest level it can be at right now, and it can't hold enough coins. You've ruined my ability to balance my city by screwing with the Wholesaler again.

And why did it have to be changed, anyway? I trade. Lots of us trade. The wholesaler was never the best way to purchase goods. But it was a good way to take down my coins so I could continue to collect.

Please change it back. And stop messing with it!
 

DeletedUser908

Guest
Exactly, at this point, I feel like peoples are asking Inno for a button they would have to click on to collect missing goods for free.

I really can't believe the Wholesaler was ever a primary source of goods for anyone. The prices were just too high. But it was useful if you needed to get rid of coins so you could continue to collect from your residences. The one thing they have not done is increase the coin storage of the Main Hall. So now I can hardly collect any coins from my residences at all, because my Main Hall is always full. That is what the Wholesaler was useful for, it was a coin sink.
 

DeletedUser607

Guest
essentially, the wholesaler wasn't ever cheap. it was either the method of choice to just dump coins or supplies, if there was an excess (for strong players) or a method to actually gain the needed resources without being forced to set up the required manufacturies, just to overcome a shortage or the unwanted situation that the neighbors were not willing to trade. small players on the other hand who desperately need those resources because of non-cooperative or non-existing neighbors have an even harder live.

in other words: the new wholesaler is still poorly designed.
 

DeletedUser1657

Guest
My only concern/point of interest with the wholesaler will be the impact on cross-tier trading. The most cost efficient way to drop coins in the new trader is to take "round 1 offers" for all goods then round 2 etc etc. If you go to round 5 in say planks but leave the other goods at the first round offer it is not that efficient. Still a sink but less "bang for buck".

Thing is once I buy my tier 3 good for example I might prefer it to be planks and put up a trade for it. In this instance I don't want a reduced ratio which is often discussed in cross tier trades as the cost to me for the goods was the coins/supplies and a fair trade would be equivalent goods at equivalent cost. Will be interesting to see what happens.
 

DeletedUser1767

Guest
The new Wholesaler still works as a coin sink; it's just a more expensive coin sink. I have mixed feelings about that, I guess: yeah, I get less for my money than I used to, but I still accomplish the goal of offloading coins to free up space. The effect on small players is what really worries me.

It seems to me, though, that a lot of the problems caused by this might be ameliorated if they a) did player movement more regularly like they keep saying they're going to; and b) made it easier for players and fellowships to find each other. The current system is not really very user-friendly for either recruiting fellowships or players who need trading partners, and the game doesn't really push new players in the direction of finding a fellowship the way it probably should. Both of these things could be fixed.
 

PrimroseSylvia

Well-Known Member
I don't like the new wholesaler. No, I hate the new wholesaler. I'm a small player, I'm on chapter II. I've got 5 planks and 1 scroll manufactories at level 2; I'm lucky, I'm in a big fellowship and have big neighbors, but... They're big and I'm small. I can't trade thousands goods like they do but just a few hundreds, so I need an equal wholesaler :(
I wanna play, I wanna grow up, don't wanna complain about the game.
 

DeletedUser118

Guest
I don't like the new wholesaler. No, I hate the new wholesaler. I'm a small player, I'm on chapter II. I've got 5 planks and 1 scroll manufactories at level 2; I'm lucky, I'm in a big fellowship and have big neighbors, but... They're big and I'm small. I can't trade thousands goods like they do but just a few hundreds, so I need an equal wholesaler :(
I wanna play, I wanna grow up, don't wanna complain about the game.

I wouldn't mind getting the old Wholesaler back either. It was just fine the way it was.

However, you should maybe talk to some of your fellows and ask them to pick up your smaller trades as you really need them. It shouldn't be a big problem for them with their bigger cities and a great help for you. I often pick up small trades as well, cuz I know I'm helping a smaller player, no matter if he's from my fellowship or not. :)
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
I posted my idea for making the wholesaler a more useful and interesting feature, rather than simply nerfing it. Link in my signature.
 

ALdbeign

Well-Known Member
Does anyone have a breakdown of what the quantities are for the different MH levels? I see that level 15 is 150 T1 goods from the posts. My MH is level 3 and I can buy 10 T1 5 T2 and 5 T3 so it clearly isn't a 10 per level thing.
 
Top