Discussion [Discussion] New Questline: The Contest

[Elderflower]

I am intrigued by how long some of the quests take. Scouting takes more than a day for me and even my magic academy takes 13 hours to create one Power of Provision. The only reason I am at all ahead is because the first time we were asked to do this I got a Spell as a reward for giving neighbourly help. Even so I doubt I can do the quests on time and I don't think I have wasted any time. I created extra Manufactories in order to complete the 3 hour goods production quest. Unless the next 6 quests are very short ones I will not be able to complete them in the remaining three days.
I suppose that because this is Beta we are testing the quest for the mainstream game so I guess there will be changes before it goes out to the world.

 

[DeletedUser1075]

I do not buy diamonds, and I finished the contest earlier today. It is doable. I also didn't have an MA when I started, and I'm not particularly happy to have one now. I do hope the devs will continue to work on that building as it is still pretty awful. If I could delete it, I would.

The contest is definitely a challenge for a more casual player. I'm on my computer all day for work so it's easy for me to jump in and out of the game to click a button. Someone who has a job that doesn't allow them to be online as much will definitely be challenged for this.

As mentioned above, I also found the quests to be repetitive. I had two in a row where I had to build spells (because scouting takes too long for that to be a reasonable demand in a contest that is only 9 days long). I understand that the devs had a tough challenge to create a quest line that wouldn't be too easy and that would introduce a bunch of things for us to do, but I wasn't a huge fan of the repetition of requirements. Especially since it was always the same spell repeating.

Lastly, the quest to level up buildings was a challenge for the diamond players among us, because most of them have arranged their cities to their liking, and had a hard time finding a location to fit a building that they could then upgrade a few times - and then delete. A quest that forces you to do something you will immediately undo is irksome, and feels like a bit of a cheat. Something for the devs to ponder.

 

[DeletedUser1658]

I just finished the questline with 4 days left. Was not that hard to do for me.
Soooo now we wait 4 days for the next questline or something

 

[Lissona]

I do have a question about quest number 12. That quest asks you to make 3 spells OR scout 3 provences. Of course I wanted to make spells, because scouting 3 provences would take 10 days. I made a spell BEFORE my scout would be ready, but what would happen if my scout would be ready before finishing the spell production? Would it not be possible anymore to create the spell 3 times, because the system would see the scout as my choice because that one finished first? I already know a combination doesn't work. But is it possible to scout 1 time and then produce the spell 3 times? Or won't the spells count then?

Even if you scouted a province, you can still produce 3 spells to finish the quest.
That`s what happened to my girlfriend yesterday/today:
Scouted a province: Quest 1/3
First Spell: Quest 1/3
Second spell: Quest 2/3
Third spell: Quest 3/3

 

[Lissona]

In addition to what Anne65 asked, I'd like to know if it's possible to combine scout WITH spell production (quest 12). Currently it takes me 16h (or more) to scout 1 province. It takes 13 hours to produce 1 spell. 48 hours vs 39 hours. 84 hours left, but I doubt that will be enough.

No, it is not possibile to combine scout with production (see my answer above).

 

[DeletedUser1477]

Thx for

The Contest

I finished

 

[DeletedUser1345]

Good idea, any and all who have finished the questline, share with all. With no magic academy, I reached the point that finishing it was impossible days ago.

 

[Lissona]

Good idea, any and all who have finished the questline, share with all. With no magic academy, I reached the point that finishing it was impossible days ago.

Your wish: I'm finished, too.

 

[DeletedUser]

Impossible to finish if you're at the end of Tech with a completed city.

Also, the linear nature of the Quest is just another way of slowing forward progress in the game. Most everyone plans their advances ahead of time, keeps scouts active, etc. How beneficial is it to have to divert / delay the big picture plan in order to prioritize this Questline?

So, I'll wait a day to start that scout so it finishes for the Quest. Now I can't upgrade this building yet because I have to save it for the Questline. And I can't run my 9 hour productions tonight (even though I need the goods/supplies for tomorrow's upgrades) because the Quest needs 3-hour productions. Somehow I have to stop everything to try and fit in 15-minute productions. Today I have to set my manf's for a 24-hour production so I definitely will be short on goods for those upgrades I was planning.
​

The Contest may be designed for early/mid range players - but the effect will be to slow their progress. If the Quests were non-linear, it would be an actual boost; as it is, what they gain in KP they lose in game progress. Why make them choose?

 

[Brummbaer]

I absolutely dislike your comment Bobbipiazza, because it is wrong and false.

I have finished the Techtree weeks ago and it is possible to solve the Contest, if you do not block the build of the M.A.
If have enough free cityspace to build the required upgraded buildings.
If have enough supplies every day, so I have to sell them daily.
I have money without end.
I have goods for the future.
I train troops around the clock.
I have 8 possible spaces for expansions free (the time will tell when I can reach them).
I have 125% culture on my own (plus sometimes 25% from the help of my fellowship)

I enjoy the game.
I never spend money for extra Diamonds.

Your comment shows, that your city is under mis-management and not under control

In the past always negative comment from you only: bad, bad, everything is bad.
If you don't like this game leave it

 

[DeletedUser]

If have enough free cityspace to build the required upgraded buildings

I said, it's impossible if you have a "completed city". By definition, if you have free cityspace, your city isn't completed. You're welcome to consider it finished, because you reached the conclusion of your personal plan. But for the many players who don't choose to leave undeveloped grids, the Contest remains impossible: their cities are completely full.

As for "mis-management", it's just as easy to consider unused grids a mismanagement - but no one is criticizing you.

 

[Brummbaer]

Dear Bobbi, sorry for my hard works
I do not wanted to insult you. It was only a reaction of your comment.

Everybody have an other point of view, so don't let stand bad words between us.
Brummbaer

 

[DeletedUser651]

COMPLAINTS HELP INNO

Brummbaer, you ask why people are being so "mean" to Inno. If people are complaining on beta that is a help to Inno. This way they can fix things before they send the feature live where a complaining customer might just be a customer that leaves and never comes back. The biggest gripes people have in general is where they think something isn't fair. You may have had no trouble with this set of quests, but some folks have every grid filled to the max and every building is maxed out. They can't do a quest where they update something without destroying a maximum level building. Do you think that sounds fair to them?

Others don't choose to build the magic academy for lots of reasons, in fact there is a whole thread of people angry about that building. They were so angry Inno promised to make the magic academy so good they would all want to build it, but that didn't happen. Do you think a quest that forces them to build the magic academy is fair to them? Or is it mean to people to promise to make the building better and instead simply force it on them? Does that sound like the way you fulfill a promise?

IT IS EASY TO FIX THIS

Anything that some group thinks is unfair runs the risk of losing customers for Inno....and it loses friends for us. We lose people who we have been playing with for a long time because they get mad and leave. Inno loses a lot of money from lost customers.

And what is the alternative? Just tweak the quests a bit so everyone can do them. There have been many suggestions for how to do that. When it is so easy to make it fair to all, why not make it fair to all? Don't have a quest that requires a magic academy. Don't have a quest that requires upgrading a building. Don't have a quest that requires scouting things that take more than 3 days.

WHY FAIR IS IMPORTANT:

Here is a quote from a website that explains why fairness is important in gaming:

"Unlike the "games" people play in real life to compete for wealth, power, and fame, recreational games are a world where most people expect to find "fairness." Unless they bet large sums of money on the outcome of every game they participate in, most people will probably end up playing video games and tabletop games just to have fun. Since there's no end goal in mind other than the game itself, a person's willingness to play a game depends on whether it's enjoyable for them."

If people don't think the game is fair to them, they won't enjoy it. Who wants to play something they think isn't fair? Do you? Again, all we are talking about is making the quest fair to all. Especially the top players. Can you imagine how bad you would feel if you spent a lot of money on this game to make your city the best it can be, you have been here the longest, you have been loyal to Inno and not played other games. Suddenly this new feature comes along.....A feature that isn't possible for you. So you have been loyal to Inno, but they are not loyal to you. They added a feature that is fun for others but that you can't participate in. They are offering a better way to get runes but you are left out of the opportunity. Is it possible that would make you angry?

OUR GOAL AS BETA TESTERS

Angry customers walk away. Let's try to stop people from walking away and make suggestions to try to make everyone happy! Inno needs customers to continue this game. Customers are important.

 

[DeletedUser]

Dear Bobbi, sorry for my hard works
I do not wanted to insult you. It was only a reaction of your comment.

Everybody have an other point of view, so don't let stand bad words between us.
Brummbaer

You are very gracious. I know you're right that I am more often displeased than pleased here in the Forum, and this doesn't make a pleasant environment.

Please feel free to be as direct as you like when speaking with me! I'm not insulted, and often enjoy your comments. Ciao!

 

[DeletedUser118]

Fairness being the main goal of a game? Hmm, I'm not really sure if that's really what ppl are looking for in here. I mean, even with money left out, those of us who have almost all day long to play this game will always be in advantage of those who have cannot be around more than just a few hours a day. And in my opinion its impossible to have a really fair game. There will always be some ppl left out here and there. That's just the way it is.

However, even though I probably won't be making it to the end of this questline cuz of several reasons, I kinda like the way it goes. You have all the aspects of the game inside (maybe needs some fighting and spell using etc) inside and all the quests sound doable so far. I wouldn't mind having another round going on, maybe with a few adjustments, like the mentioned taking out of the repeating spells. That was a bit too much in my opinion. But else I'm pretty fine with it and yes I have to say I don't mind the Academy being inside it and the scouting since both are big parts of the game which need to be introduced to new players. And as we all know now that this questline is more aiming at them than us, I'd say you should keep both inside, though maybe give a few more options to choose for the "older" players so they can have fun too.

Oh and one more thing to my kitty friend. :3 As you know my english is not the best ^^ but I wouldn't say "complaining" is the best way to talk about new content, but to discuss things or give feedback (no matter if good or bad of course). Complaining has this kinda negativ aura around itself, so if I was a dev I'd feel like, no matter what I try, they (players) always have something to complain about.

 

[DeletedUser651]

English is my native language and I mean complain simply in the sense of expressing dissatisfaction or dislike about something. If people dislike something that is important for Inno to know before they introduce it live, don't you think? If players really dislike something wouldn't it be better for Inno to find that out here, in the beta forums, before they introduce it live? Whether we speak or stay silent, players will feel about the new feature the way they will feel. Chances are if a lot of the beta players dislike something, so will the players on the live servers.

We have mostly shut down any negativity in these beta forums. How many times do you hear players say they don't bother saying anything any more because the forums are not welcoming to negative opinions. If a new feature is introduced and someone says they do not like it, they get attacked or people simply see others get attacked for expressing similar views. In fact, even saying that there is value to hearing what everyone has to say gets attacked.

So, now we have a game with a low retention rate because no one wants to hear the problems. Top money spending players even walk out all the time.

How is that helpful to the company?

Or we can all just sit here and stroke egos. Then the company won't know what is a bad feature until they lose paying customers because of it and lose a whole ton of money. So what do you think is better for the company...to find out financially or verbally that a feature caused dissatisfaction?

Oh...and the more fair the game is to more players then the more players you will have. Or you can narrow the customer base as much as you like, but that will cost Inno money. That's why I suggest features that are more inclusive rather than less. Though why I am trying so hard so many in the forums are against me is beyond me.

So yeah...sure....the game is great. No problems. Don't change a thing.

 

[DeletedUser867]

Complaining has this kinda negativ aura around itself,

There's an engineering/development dynamic that you have to keep in mind. Techies actually LIKE problems.

The dessert at the end of the meal are the odd little quirks that nobody saw coming. While Engineers and Developers DO pride themselves on getting it right, they mostly regard success as an indication that they can take more risks the next time.

The Peter Principle, "Employees get promoted/rise to their level of incompetence" (see http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/peter-principle.asp) applies to engineers and developers in an odd way, because it controls the TYPE of projects that they will be assigned.

• Giving it your best shot and succeeding is best, of course
• Giving it your best shot and PROVING that it's a bad concept, is almost as good
• The ideal result, from an engineering/development point of view, is to get the BIG THINGS right, and to assign the cleanup work to the junior members on the team

Verbal feedback from the players has a limited value. Users are an excellent source of ideas, but they rarely have access to the big picture nor a good feel for programming issues.

• It helps to understand that "advanced" players are a very small minority of the players.
• InnoGames has tons of usage data that the players never see, and THAT'S the main indicator for things that aren't working well. See https://www.adjust.com/analytics/.
• Anecdotal "proofs" such as "several of the people in my Fellowship left because of this or that" aren't even very relevant. Actions speak louder than words.

So - compliments?

• Indicate that you understand the scope and importance of the problem
• Acknowledge that there are a LOT of moving parts, and that solutions will probably have to be released in phases
• Don't sweat the small stuff. A misspelled word here and there, or a pointer that didn't get picked up, is NOT a reason to flounce about the forum shouting, "These idiots can't get ANYTHING right!!!!"

The BEST complement of all? "Elvenar would be more elegant if thus and so were possible." That's engineering/development heaven.

Engineer and developers don't like solutions, they like well stated problems with feasible solutions.

 

[DeletedUser]

The dessert at the end of the meal are the odd little quirks that nobody saw coming. While Engineers and Developers DO pride themselves on getting it right,

Hilarious. Like the neighborhood "little quirk" nobody saw coming? In this instance, your Peter Principle is likely relevant.

 

[DeletedUser118]

@Katwijk: This all sounds very nice. The only problem about it is, that those of us who are not into this way of thinking don't really care about such things nor do they bother in trying to think about it that way. They see something they don't like they complain about it and that's it.

I actually had planed to add some more text in here but I'm not really sure how to explain it in the best way, so before I might hurt anybody I'll just leave it be.

The only thing I would like to say is that we have alot of complaining going on, no matter about what new content shows up, but it always ends up going into the same direction, with the same old "facts" being pulled out once again, with the same ppl on both sides stating their points which in the end leads us nowhere. I don't like that.

 

[DeletedUser1589]

Just finished the contest, I liked it hope more in the future.