Discussion Bonus Recalculation - Changes in Culture

[DeletedUser326]

Before maintenance i was in 170% and now after that im in 160% ... This supposed to be better? :/

Yes it is much better then before.
I was @170% before Update with 4 culture more that i needed for 170% Bonus. I couldn't upgrade my Main Hall without dropping massively in culture and needing another butcher to reach 170% again.
Now after the Patch i could Upgrade my MH and only dropt from 160% to very shortly under the 160% cap so i only Need a 1x1 culture to reach it again. But i will stay at 150% with a massive Surplus which will cover my next 2 MH Upgrades too while staying at 150% while i would have dropped to 120% under the old System.

I hope ist understandable what i mean.

Well Except for the top bonus reducing from 200% to 170% I don't find any difference at all as far as the Cultures are concerned.... I was getting 200% bonus without any help before this ..... Now i m having excess bonus because of 170% bonus limit but at the cost of major reduction in Coins and production output....

Yes you reached 200% by your own but with a massive loss in coins compared to if you had only reached 170% and filled the freed space with residences and Workshops.

I can't understand why nobody doe's the math for how unuseful it is regarding of space trying to reach the max Bonus by himself.

As i was @ 200% Bonus myself i could easily sell 4 butchers and only dropped to 170% which gave me 48 squares for other buildings which ended in about 40% more production while the 4 butchers only gave me 30% for 6 less buildings.


In my Opinion its worthless to discuss about coulture requirements before you don't reach Tier 2 with all buildings because this is a real culture killer.

The next is this is closed Beta. Regarding the fact that we are only a playerbase of 20k Players, from whom only about 40% are active, we are not nearly about 2% of the final playerbase of a normal Inno Game. The future 1 Million Player won't even know that there was a 200% Bonus.

But okay i love the new System because neighbourly help finally makes a sense because i can get to 170% with 3 polishes while i needed 7 for 200% before, which was impossible. And now at Levels where your production gives you some Output the new System is quite fine. I Only Need 30% of my space fore culture and stay at 160% by my own before i needed 40% of my space to make it with 1 polish to 170%. These 10% less wasted space give me much more Output then 10%.

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes you reached 200% by your own but with a massive loss in coins compared to if you had only reached 170% and filled the freed space with residences and Workshops.

I can't understand why nobody doe's the math for how unuseful it is regarding of space trying to reach the max Bonus by himself.

As i was @ 200% Bonus myself i could easily sell 4 butchers and only dropped to 170% which gave me 48 squares for other buildings which ended in about 40% more production while the 4 butchers only gave me 30% for 6 less buildings.


In my Opinion its worthless to discuss about coulture requirements before you don't reach Tier 2 with all buildings because this is a real culture killer.

The next is this is closed Beta. Regarding the fact that we are only a playerbase of 20k Players, from whom only about 40% are active, we are not nearly about 2% of the final playerbase of a normal Inno Game. The future 1 Million Player won't even know that there was a 200% Bonus.

But okay i love the new System because neighbourly help finally makes a sense because i can get to 170% with 3 polishes while i needed 7 for 200% before, which was impossible. And now at Levels where your production gives you some Output the new System is quite fine. I Only Need 30% of my space fore culture and stay at 160% by my own before i needed 40% of my space to make it with 1 polish to 170%. These 10% less wasted space give me much more Output then 10%.

Well if thats the case why not keep the higher bonus limit at 200% and let the neighborly help make it reach 200% ?? I understand this is a closed beta with less players in it ...and i do think everybody who's playing is aware of that fact ....My question is with regards to when this game goes on live with the 1 million players base achieving 200% bonus with the neighborly help will not be difficult at that time and we need not be doing it all on our own ...isnt it so ??

I dont understand when you say now u need only 3 to reach 170% while u needed 7 to reach 200% ...because to me even before this update it would have been the same case .... U would have needed 3 to reach 170% and 7 for 200% ...If u were really happy with getting 170% you just should have been happy reaching 170% even when there had been a 200% top bonus ...Now they have completely taken off that option so u r just happy that only 3 are need to help u reach 170%??? How's this an improvement ...please do explain it to me ...

I can understand your maths that the output gets affected with having more cultures and lesser buildings but as you yourself said this is a beta So maybe our game on the live server might be different than what we are playing here ?? ...I wouldn't be doing the same thing on the live server ...I would be expecting a lot more help from my neighbors to reach that bonus at that time ... And this change doesn't help over there is what I am giving my feedback about ....

 

[DeletedUser651]

This change was "advertised" as being necessary because people had too many cultural buildings and this would balance things out. Under the old calculations, I would have had thousands of extra culture points to be at the 170% level and yes, I would have been able to delete culture buildings and build workshops and houses to make up the difference. Under these calculations, I need exactly as many culture buildings as I have to just to maintain that 170%.

It took me over 40 hours of gameplay just to get past one research level because I need to buy all my own crystal and silk. That will now be increased because I am getting fewer goods for the time. And in my opinion that is too long of an increase. I am already tiring of the game because things have gotten so slow. This has just slowed things down further. Poor choice IMO. Bored players leave and if they abandon the game that will affect their neighbors too. Bored players also don't tell their friends about games. Rather than slow down the game so that people won't get to the "end" too quickly, which will result in leaving players, I would think the better strategy would be to keep adding to the "end" so that people will constantly have goals.

(and fyi...I have only been playing a week or two...and if I am getting bored already, that is a bad sign.)

 

[DeletedUser205]

o.T.
adding to the "end" + offer more things to do while boring waitingtimes to get through the researchtree.
(I would like to have a trainingscamp for battles to spend my time)

 

[DeletedUser651]

These calculations are supposed to be simple. I have 6225 total culture. The required culture for the amount of buildings I have is 2345. What percent of 2345 is 6225? Anyone? It is 265%! So, how come it says I am only at 170% with a measly 480 to spare? 170% of 2345 is 3986. If I only need 3986 to be at 170% and I have 6225 then I should have a surplus of 2239 NOT 480!!

Where on earth on these numbers coming from? Thin air? 170% of WHAT? This is even worse than it was before when the numbers made no sense whatsoever.

 

[DeletedUser199]

This update never was meant to be an improvement ... at least not at

that point of the game (mostly inactive neighborhood) and for

players who used to have high bonus levels as 170% to 200%.


I made screenshots before and after the update. Here are the numbers:

before update:

Culture Bonus: 170%

Required for current level: 4.400

Available Culture: 5.363

Neighborly Help Bonus: 0

Needed for next level: 1.137



after update:

Culture Bonus: 160%

Required for current level: 4.400

Available Culture: 5.363

Neighborly Help Bonus: 410

Needed for next level: 27


Changes:

The required culture of 4.400 is now only good for 160% bonus instead of 170 % before the update.

Before the update I had a steady bonus of 170% and a cultural surplus of 963, now my bonus is at 160% and I need (discounting the neighborly bonus) 437 more culture to get at the same level as before. So my “cultural devaluation” amounts to 1.400.

To have the same output as before the update, exactly every 8 hours 2 of my neighbors would have to visit and help me (that is 6 neighbors a day).

During the last weeks I had neighborly help of 3 to 4 neighbors per day (and all at different times). Considering that inactivity in my neighborhood is growing and discovering new active neighbors is getting more difficult each time, I do not expect that I will reach my ”old” 170% level without building more cultural items.

Just for the record: the distance from 160 % to 170 % is exactly 1.800 culture.


Muf-Muf stated: “Currently, many players are trying to reach the highest levels by themselves without relying on neighbors (like in the image above). This costs them a lot of space in their cities and holds them back, as they don't have enough room for Residences, Workshops and Manufactories, because all the space is taken by Culture-providing buildings.
With the new system, we hope to overcome the problem described above. We intend on players reaching the second Bonus level by themselves, but rely on neighbors to help them reach the highest Bonus via the Neighborly Help feature.”


It was clear that this goal could not be achieved by the update without substituting all the inactive neighbors. And instead of gaining space for my city I’m losing it.

I consider the update not as an improvement for the players, but as a measure to make the game slower. And I am not “moaning” at all, as I am accustomed to that kind of changes from other online games.

I’ m not very good at maths and my calculations may be wrong, so please correct me if I made a mistake.

Possibly, for other players with a more active neighborhood and other bonus levels the update may work out better than for me.



My numbers:

rank: 174

score: 9.513

completed provinces: 70

discovered neighbors: 64

neighbors active during the last 7 days

(improving their score): 20

game progress: midgame

next research: magic Dust Factory

 

[DeletedUser]

This change seems to me to be “Much ado about nothing”. Some folks like it some folks don’t. After reading the comments I would say most like or dislike it because of the effect the change has had on their town only and their play style. For those who have benefited “It is GREAT!”. For those who have not “It SUCKS!”.



The real question for me is why did the devs do it? The Inno team has said on several occasions “You are supposed to reach the first two Bonus levels on your own. The last two Bonus levels are intended to be reached with Neighborly Help.”



If this is the intent of the change then it has failed. I am still at max culture bonus without help. I do not have enough help in my neighborhood to be able to count on them so I do it myself.



If this is what you want to do then just make it so neighborly help does not add culture. Instead only have two bonus levels or maybe three. Then make it so each neighborly help action increases your bonus level by one even going beyond what is normally available. Then once the max culture bonus is reached the next neighborly help action could add to the time you will stay at the max level.

 

[DeletedUser651]

Let me try to make this more clear.....

In the first culture tab you have Total Culture, Required Culture and Available Culture. Great. Ok. Simple. Subtract Required from Total and you get what is left...your available Culture. Then when you look at the Culture Surplus tab, for some bizarre reason, the programmers transposed available Culture with your Total Culture, so the figures are WAYYYY off.

What should happen when you get to the Culture Surplus tab is there should be a tab for the required culture at the percentage level (there is) and then you subtract your TOTAL culture from what is required at that percentage level and you get a new amount of available culture. Instead....the programmers take your Available Culture from the first tab and subtract that from the percentage level required...thus, you are being subtracted from twice! That is why everything is so messed up.

 

[DeletedUser651]

Odvar, I can't see how anyone can like the new change. Especially now that it takes just as much culture to be at lower percentages. The way it was explained was the new change would free you up to build more workshops and houses instead of wasting so much space on culture buildings. Instead, I am going to have to use MORE space on culture than before to get to 170%. That means I now have less space for other buildings. They have made the problem worse, not better.

 

[DeletedUser392]

Well, I'm positive man so we'll see.
But it's funny, all we write that the culture requirements for upgrading buildings are too high and to reach 200% we have to build many culture buildings.
And the result is...... well cut off 200% -so now we don't need to be disturbed about 200%. No 200% no problem, but the culture requirements for buildings are the same as before. Why to build culture buildings only for 10%, we don't need it- funny.
Now, all we players should be happy with 150% bonus production- who wants 170%, what for!!!

And I'm not a math man, but- required culture 4531, for 170% I need 5700, total 10231- ups why if 10231/4531= 2.25.
If you want 170% let the total culture be 4531*1.7= 7702.

And for buildings - yes. I can delete 4 culture buildings 4x3 and can build 5 residence 3x3 (from 170% to 160%). So with other 20 x 1000 coins/h I'll have 42500 coins (40000 for 200%). And if my neighbours are not active as me I'll have 40000 coins/h for 160% with 25 buildings which I had before with 20 buildings.

 

[DeletedUser119]

170% of WHAT?

It just mean that your residences/workshops will produce at 170%. So you'll get 70% more coins/supplies than without bonus.
170% (or 125, 150, 160%) are bonus for coins/supplies, these bonus have nothing to do with numbers in your culture.

This doesn't tackle the problem of inactive players. We have another solution for that, which will be implemented at a later date. More details on that will follow once it's closer to being released.

I'm waiting impatiently for that. I think that no matter what change will be made with culture (good or bad one), it won't change anything.
For me this new system was supposed to persuade players not to try to reach the highest bonus without help from neighbors.
But as long as we have most of our neighbors inactive the problem with culture will stay as it is now.

 

[DeletedUser]

I liked the old system better. Even if the 200% bonus was hard to get because it required a lot of space, I thought it was fun for us (or for me at least) to deal with that space requirement. It was also our guess to calculate if it was worth it or not to reach it. I dont think I will ever get enought neighborhood help to get the last 2 level of bonus, so I will end up anyway doing it myself (building more cultural building to get them).

 

[DeletedUser]

At least I only drop 10% now instead of the drop before....
that said, I have to disagree with this statement:

... Bored players also don't tell their friends about games. ...

Bored players tell their friends usually, it is human nature to emphasise on negative events....there is such a thing as detriment by word of mouth!

 

[DeletedUser231]

THE CULTURE AND MY REVENUE HAS BEEN RUINED WITH THIS POORLY DESIGNED CULTURAL SYSTEM THE WHOLE THING IS A TRAIN WRECK...POORLY AND UTTERLY A FAILURE....GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

I HAD REPEAT HAD GREAT REVENUE PRIOR TO THIS FAILURE OF AN UPDATE NOW MY REVENUE TODAY JUST SUCKS...THANKS A BLOODY LOT.....I WILL NEVER BE BUYING DIAMONDS AGAIN FOR THIS PATHETIC GAME.....THIS GAME HAS JUST FAILED....I HAVE GONE FROM LOVING THIS GAME TO ABSOLUETLY HATING IT...GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

WHAT A PATHETIC FAILURE.....THANKS ALOT MUF MUF...GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

 

[DeletedUser]

Don`t worry RugBug... be happy
it was in the past not possible to get the higher bonus if you get get higher and higher in the game. You are not so small, I think it is for you not so a bit disadvantage. Smaller players get a slap in the face with this update, but later it make no real difference. Ask Khebeln. I think for him it is not possible and it was not possible to get a bonus over 120%, because it need to much space.

 

[DeletedUser]

Don`t worry RugBug... be happy
it was in the past not possible to get the higher bonus if you get get higher and higher in the game. You are not so small, I think it is for you not so a bit disadvantage. Smaller players get a slap in the face with this update, but later it make no real difference. Ask Khebeln. I think for him it is not possible and it was not possible to get a bonus over 120%, because it need to much space.

No it makes a lot of difference @Denali ... Every player plays the game in their own way and style ... Cannot actually compare or give examples of one player to another ... I for example would always like to play with the maximum bonus .... Maybe @Khebeln doesn't mind playing with lower bonuses... @Khebeln would like to get a lot of residences and workshops to meet his needs without the bonus actually affecting him ...I cannot do that and i do not want to play like that .... I might rather go slow with lesser buildings with maximum bonus than the other way around ...Maybe I like playing my game that way ....This new change affects that style of playing ... All everybody's asking for the complaining players is to compromise with whatever mistakes or wrong changes the Dev's have done or are doing ... This is beta and we are supposed to give our feedback with the larger picture in mind ... When the game goes on live server ...Players cannot be asked to compromise there ...they either like playing the game or they will not like ....as simple as that ... Majority of the Players are not going to complain on the forum (here or on the live servers) and neither there will be players who will compromise ... they will just leave the game if they find it boring ... and this game's will become that way because of the in-between waiting time increasing ...

 

[DeletedUser205]

basically I go with ddevels arguments as to feedback.

from my point of view, I can confirm that it is not possible to get the highest % of culture and simultaneously upgrade buildings as you can (in higher level).
You need a lot of space for upgrading buildings, which grow in tier2 and tier3. That space is "burnt" for cultural buildings. You need some spared space for parking buildings while rebuild your city. If you let all this in future needed upgradespace from the beginning, it is wasted place in this early stage, so you have to do it in several "operation"-rounds when you get futher in your researchtree.
I had 200% on my one culture without polishing some times ago, than 170% and now I can be glad, if enough neighbors polish my snakes to get 150%.
And no space to place new culture.
Just go with that and watch, if there is really something that I miss, if my culturebonus is lowered to 100%. I will report it here after all ;-)

(as long as the "Decline-Circle" will work, you can get a lot of coins and supplies out of that, just choose the quest you need in this moment to get lot of extras ... -- I'm afraid, that they will change that possibility next, that is the reason, why in these days I hurry to upgrade buildings like workshops, which need only coins and supplies for that ;-) )

 

[DeletedUser]

(as long as the "Decline-Circle" will work, you can get a lot of coins and supplies out of that, just choose the quest you need in this moment to get lot of extras ... -- I'm afraid, that they will change that possibility next, that is the reason, why I hurry to update in these days ;-) )

Thats a Compromise @sorella ...Just because you cannot get enough coins & production you are going to exploit the quests bug ?? Thats not how a game should be played !!! ... this is early phase beta and has bugs in it to help us with our requirements but how will it be when it goes on the live server with the bugs rectified ?? How will a player starting to play the game new will feel about the coins / productions output being lesser to slow down the game ?? We had the luxury of 200% so we could buy goods using coins or production whenever it tried to halt us in the game progress ...that luxury will not be there when it goes to live with this 170% bonus and the culture requirement changes which has gone much much higher than before ...

 

[DeletedUser205]

I'm not shure, that this is a bug and it is bugusing to decline-shuffle.
(would be easy to stop for the devs I think, but it's still there)
Is that confirmed as a bug anywhere?
I asked for that point in a thread days ago and nobody answered.

And I really not feel as a role-model for next elvenar-generations.
I'm a tester and do what I want to and report what is happening.
That's the reason, why I grin at the scoring-runners - is that really significant for superbrains in betas?
But you are right in the point, that everybody plays HIS OWN game in this game

 

[DeletedUser]

No it makes a lot of difference @Denali ... Every player plays the game in their own way and style ... Cannot actually compare or give examples of one player to another ... I for example would always like to play with the maximum bonus ....

It is hard to say, but you play a game from innogames. This games never comes to an end. In the past years I lost 5 chars by changing of game core features in The-West (personal game targets are destroyed by updates). This is a beta and you must expect that something changes radically. And this could be happen also with the finish game.

The wise word is:
Adapt or die.

I personally don`t understand the patch, too... In my eyes it is okay to reduce the maximum bonus to 170% but only with a reduction of the needed culture. Or it is a idea to split the culture in two things. With the own culture you can get 170% by the old system but with only the neighbor culture you can get 200%. So you can also reach the 200% but you need your neighbors and save the own space.

But we will see to the future... I can see hundreds of chances and hundreds of tears, too. It is always the same.