Discussion Bonus Recalculation - Changes in Culture

[DeletedUser]

It is hard to say, but you play a game from innogames. This games never comes to an end. In the past years I lost 5 chars by changing of game core features in The-West (personal game targets are destroyed by updates). This is a beta and you must expect that something changes radically. And this could be happen also with the finish game.

The wise word is:
Adapt or die.

I personally don`t understand the patch, too... In my eyes it is okay to reduce the maximum bonus to 170% but only with a reduction of the needed culture. Or it is a idea to split the culture in two things. With the own culture you can get 170% by the old system but with only the neighbor culture you can get 200%. So you can also reach the 200% but you need your neighbors and save the own space.

But we will see to the future... I can see hundreds of chances and hundreds of tears, too. It is always the same.

I understand this is a beta and expect a lot more changes in the game as we move ahead ... Our job in this beta is to give our honest feedback for those changes ...Not compromise with whatever they change ... The games you have played have already gone on live server and there it might be true that once a change is brought on the players do not have much say ... but in this closed beta we are playing here only to test out the features and giving feedback is our responsibility and duty so that this game is playable and interesting for the real players of this game ... And I am only giving my feedback about this new Culture update that IMHO its a bad change for the game ... Not because i am finding it difficult playing on this beta which i dont really care about as I am only testing the game here ... but it will make the game more slower to progress compared what it was before when this goes on the live server in its current form and thats not something good for the future of this game ... Getting 170% or even 200% bonus without our own cultures will not be difficult in live servers as there will be more players to help each other ....But this 170% bonus output is not enough for the requirements of the research tree / Exploring maps / upgrades / making new units ....Players on the live server will get bored as the waiting time will increase ... Maybe this feedback might make the developers make other necessary changes if they don't feel to bring back the the previous Culture setting...Anything's ok as long the game remains playable and interesting ...

 

[DeletedUser]

but it will make the game more slower to progress compared what it was before when this goes on the live server in its current form and thats not something good for the future of this game ...

This is true... but time is a difficult thing. A feeling for time needs always a comparison to another time. Only we beta testers knows that the game was in the past faster. For me ends the game in some months, because I reached than the maximum with researching. I want to play many years and not some months to reach the end and or the highest level. With this calculation is the game to fast and I understand that Inno reduces the speed.

 

[DeletedUser]

It was easy (and part of a good strategy) to be at 200% in the beginning, so this modification mostly affects beginning players collecting 170% instead of 200%. While advancing and upgrading your buildings to use the limited space efficiently, it becomes impossible to stay at the high bonus levels and simultaneously produce the needed goods to keep your pace at the research tree and upgrade some expensive buildings.

But it's not the job of the devs to 'teach' the players about a good strategy... they have to find their own way, it maybe different from person to person.

And it harms the confidence of players, if a modification is not working as said, Here are 2 little screenshots, that prove the simple x*1/x*2/x*3/x*4 requirement-relations to be wrong (3400/2 <> 5200/3, 3500/2 <> 5200/3):
[I will insert images later on, upload option is broken at the moment....

Edit: I've opened this thread many times now, never got the option to upload a file . Mods, if you want the screenshots, you have to ask me to do it in another thread]

 

[DeletedUser]

For me ends the game in some months, because I reached than the maximum with reaching. I want to play many years and not some months to reach the end and or the highest level. With this calculation is the game to fast and I understand that Inno reduces the speed.

I expect more buildings, units and research to be added with time. Don't you?

 

[DeletedUser126]

It only gets worse with time, as you can see in my city i have A LOT of culture buildings and many of them are diamond ones and i cant even get 125% As a mater of fact im 4k away from 125% now, making it impossible to get now.

 

[DeletedUser651]

I agree, Denali, that time is relative and new players will never know what it was like before, but I think this game already had a problem keeping players and this will only make it worse. Half my neighborhood is filled with players who must have played a little but aren't playing now. I can't trade with anyone for tier 2 goods and forget tier 3 if I ever get there.

I too am simply reporting what this game play is like as my duty as a beta tester. I can tell you that with this new change the game has slowed so much it is becoming silly to play. I sit here for 15 hours a day, and click on the five minute workshops and just WAIT and WAIT and WAIT. I get up in the middle of the night (I do that anyway) and reset things. And even with that amount of insane game playing time (I don't imagine most sane people will play that much) I still am just dragging.

As I said before, if they have a problem with people reaching the "end" too fast, then I would think they need to work on that. I mean...eventually, all their players will reach the "end" and then what? Do they want them all to leave? The most loyal and hard working and money spending players?

It seems to me the choices are either to slow this game down so much that is like watching paint dry whereby you lose most of your customers quickly and keep the game "longer" by moving the "end" point...or you keep moving the end point, keep players engaged, and possibly even speed up the beginning. Because something has caused a lot of players to leave early on and I can't see that this change will help that problem in any way.

Again....I say this because I think it is very important....it is our job as beta testers to give our feedback on our enjoyment, the ease of the game, the bugs, etc. EVERY person's feedback regarding their own enjoyment vital to this game. Like it, hate it, like the staff, hate the staff, ALL comments are vital to the game makers.

 

[DeletedUser326]

Thats a Compromise @sorella ...Just because you cannot get enough coins & production you are going to exploit the quests bug ??

Ist no Bug ist a Feature. Repeatable Quests are there for being repeated. Some quests cant be repeated at a certain stage so if you couldn't decline them you never would get new ones. Its the same mechanic as in Forge of Empires. And the few coins you get for those quests aren't really much so it would matter. I would go so far to say that you Need them for the wholesaler at current market Situation in many neighbourhoods.

And to answer your questions in you previous post.

I know that everyone has his own playstyle. But YOUR playstyle will be doomed as you Progress in game. The is no possibility especially when you reach Tier 3 buildings to have stayed at 200% Bonus even it was nearly impossible to stick at 170% Bonus without spending much much Money into this game.

The only Thing they did is to remove a Feature which was only accessable for the heavy Investors after reaching a breakpoint in the game. That is Tier 3 upgrade Phase.
I spend a few bucks for Diamond expensions and my Progression in the game tells me that i will Need the next 10 expensions only to upgrade all of my buildings to Tier 3. You Will not get any culture except changing the existing ones against better ones. But this won't Counter the loss of Cour boost Level.

Let me try to make it clear:

Now i Need 1300 culture Surplus per Bonus Level. That means 5200 Surplus for 170% this is possible by being polished 3 times.
In the old System i needed about 5000 Surplus for 170% whis were 3 polishes too and about 7500 Surplus for 200% which was impossible to achieve while it had needed 8 polishes at the same time.

My calculation for 200% Bonus after upgrading to 1st Tier 3 Level buildings i would have needed more then 14000 culture Surplus to reach even 170% and 8000 for 170% which would have been impossible even with upgraded culture buildings. I would have dropped to barely 140% with 1-2 polishes at best.

My new calculation is 150% with 3 polishes which is easy to achieve in my main playtime for about 1-3 hours.
160% is possible too with a bit of an effort while bonuses about 140% in the old System were impossible to get without heavy Money invest.

The essence of what i'm trying to say is:
There WILL be a Point in the game where even Diamond culture wasn't able to bring you to max Bonus by your own under the old System. The Only exception is when you would have used 50-60% of your space for Diamond culture AND some polishes, which would have been a Major loss against only reaching 140% and build more production buildings.

With the new System you will be able to reach 150% with a bit of an effort and you will be able to reach 170% with a bit more effort but it isn't straight impossible like in the old culture System.

 

[DeletedUser]

Ist no Bug ist a Feature. Repeatable Quests are there for being repeated. Some quests cant be repeated at a certain stage so if you couldn't decline them you never would get new ones. Its the same mechanic as in Forge of Empires. And the few coins you get for those quests aren't really much so it would matter. I would go so far to say that you Need them for the wholesaler at current market Situation in many neighbourhoods.

And to answer your questions in you previous post.

I know that everyone has his own playstyle. But YOUR playstyle will be doomed as you Progress in game. The is no possibility especially when you reach Tier 3 buildings to have stayed at 200% Bonus even it was nearly impossible to stick at 170% Bonus without spending much much Money into this game.

The only Thing they did is to remove a Feature which was only accessable for the heavy Investors after reaching a breakpoint in the game. That is Tier 3 upgrade Phase.
I spend a few bucks for Diamond expensions and my Progression in the game tells me that i will Need the next 10 expensions only to upgrade all of my buildings to Tier 3. You Will not get any culture except changing the existing ones against better ones. But this won't Counter the loss of Cour boost Level.

Let me try to make it clear:

Now i Need 1300 culture Surplus per Bonus Level. That means 5200 Surplus for 170% this is possible by being polished 3 times.
In the old System i needed about 5000 Surplus for 170% whis were 3 polishes too and about 7500 Surplus for 200% which was impossible to achieve while it had needed 8 polishes at the same time.

My calculation for 200% Bonus after upgrading to 1st Tier 3 Level buildings i would have needed more then 14000 culture Surplus to reach even 170% and 8000 for 170% which would have been impossible even with upgraded culture buildings. I would have dropped to barely 140% with 1-2 polishes at best.

My new calculation is 150% with 3 polishes which is easy to achieve in my main playtime for about 1-3 hours.
160% is possible too with a bit of an effort while bonuses about 140% in the old System were impossible to get without heavy Money invest.

The essence of what i'm trying to say is:
There WILL be a Point in the game where even Diamond culture wasn't able to bring you to max Bonus by your own under the old System. The Only exception is when you would have used 50-60% of your space for Diamond culture AND some polishes, which would have been a Major loss against only reaching 140% and build more production buildings.

With the new System you will be able to reach 150% with a bit of an effort and you will be able to reach 170% with a bit more effort but it isn't straight impossible like in the old culture System.

You seem to be stuck in this beta ...Why are you looking and comparing with what we have on a test beta server ??? i am talking when the game goes to live server ... Are you trying to tell me that with 1 million player base with unlimited neighbors on the map you cannot get 200% bonus by regular neighborly visits??? Then this game isnt worth testing in the first place .... By the way are you even reading the comments posted by so many other players that they are not even able to reach 125% bonus now when they were able to reach around 150 - 170% before the update.... That includes even the topmost player @Khebeln too who's playing this game with diamonds ... Doesnt it mean that everybody except you are feeling this change is not beneficial ???.... Thats because you are just saying from your perspective and based on this beta server game ... I dont care about how this game's on this beta server but I m more worried how it will be when it reaches on the live server ...When the beginners are not able to get enough resources and the waiting time increases they will just stop playing the game like what is already happening on this beta now ... I think you should read the comments by other players ... Some of them have said it more clearly than I could have ....

You keep giving only your example ... thats because you are seeing this whole thing from your perspective only .... I am not giving examples because I have not lost much actually ...just a little on the output of coins and production that which i can always manage but what I am talking is with the live server in my perspective .... Also coming to your argument that I wont be able to have 200% at later stages in the game but atleast I can make use of it as long as it lasts ... I am in tier 2 goods now .... AND i was able to maintain 200% .....until this update changed all that ... SO i would have been able to get the extra output benefit till now which I am missing now... Again this only a beta a closed one at that ... You actually cannot compare how I am playing the game on this with the actual live server ...For example how many of us will be building non-boosted goods building while playing on the live server ... I dont think anybody would and if somebody does that then that would not be the right way to play this game ... But here in this closed beta most of the players are doing exactly that because of non-availability of enough players ... Same goes for the cultures too ... In this beta since we do not have enough players some players like me try to do it on our own but it doesnt mean we will be doing the same thing on a live server.... both for the goods and Culture bonus we would be expecting a lot of help from the neighbors ....

 

[DeletedUser205]

@ddevil: I think, it doesn't matter, how many neighbors probably on live server are active. As you can see (or as I can see) it doesn't matter for the cultural thing - for the hope of getting polished by neighbors -, how many neighbors you discover yourself. Lots of them didn't discover you, because they are beginners or only 2 rings further, or they left their city for ever. Lots of the others don't think about polishing (I don't know why).
The farer you get in your worldmap, the less shure is, that this neighbor ever will discover you back (so to say) and therefore can think about polishing you or not.
I've discovered about 3 neighbors average the last weeks but my visitors remain static 5 per day or less.
And that are neighbors from the first days (so to say) and nobody of the neighbors of outer rings.
The farer away neighbors are sometimes helpful in the trader, because they trade a good, which not was shown there for long time *halleluja!*,
but they are not helpful for polishing whatever.
I don't understand, why you think, that this point will change on liveserver.
I think, this point has to overthink basically by the gamedesigners

 

[DeletedUser]

for one Hopefully there will be more active players on the live server than on this closed beta server .... two hopefully they will be bringing in some kind of grouping system by the time we will go live .... three as there will be more players playing seriously you bound to get more helps because they would be expecting / needing the same in return .... we should always remember this is a CLOSED BETA ...only few are given the key to join in this and out of the few who joined lot of them have already gone inactive with no sign of their replacement in the game ...again hopefully the dev's will think of bringing in some change in that .... If its going to be the same scenario in the live server then this game will close down ...or the few remaining players will also stop playing this game ...I will for sure .... no point in playing the game when we will have to do everything on our own in a MMO game with very few players playing in it ...

 

[DeletedUser205]

well, that's a lot of hope
I don't share that overall (as for selfregulation on liveserver).
My hope is, that the gamedesigners will awake and think that neighbor-idea they have over.

And I don't think, that it makes sense, to speculate about the helping of groupfeatures/guildfeatures to be - before we have the smallest idea, how and if they give birth to those features

 

[DeletedUser]

I have played their other game ....Forge of empires ...and going by that this game will also be in somewhat similar design....thats why I am hoping for those improvements in this game .... those are the basic necessity of any MMO game without which a game like Elvenar cannot be a success....interaction, cooperation, competition between players is required for any online multiplayer game and the game designers have to plan accordingly to compulsorily accommodate all those things in a game ...

 

[DeletedUser58]

There will definitely be new and huge features, this is not even half of the game they intend this to be. When I first joined FoE it barely had any features, it was in its beta status and it had only the basics such as Elvenar now. But currently FoE includes so much new content that it's almost like a completely different game (except the general idea and concept are the same).

I have no doubts that we'll be getting major game additions and improvements even though at this time we're not aware what they will be. The only issue is time, when will they be delivered and can folks be patient enough till then.

On the topic of culture, I haven't noticed a major change in my own city. It's slightly more difficult to reach the first culture level now but that same culture level has been improved so I guess it's almost as if no change has taken place.

 

[DeletedUser]

On the topic of culture, I haven't noticed a major change in my own city. It's slightly more difficult to reach the first culture level now but that same culture level has been improved so I guess it's almost as if no change has taken place.

Except the top bonus being reduced to 170% from 200% .... thats exactly what was my first comment after this new update was applied ....

 

[DeletedUser58]

Except the top bonus being reduced to 170% from 200% .... thats exactly what was my first comment after this new update was applied ....

I don't mind that because of two reasons A) I almost never had a 200% bonus B) I thought a 200% bonus is a bit too much in the first place, I think about 150% is more reasonable than a double payout. But I know a few folks worked hard to maintain that level, so I understand why they aren't pleased with that.

 

[DeletedUser]

I don't mind that because of two reasons A) I almost never had a 200% bonus B) I thought a 200% bonus is a bit too much in the first place, I think about 150% is more reasonable than a double payout. But I know a few folks worked hard to maintain that level, so I understand why some folks aren't pleased with that.

The requirements are also quite high in this game ... Too much coins requirement in this game ...and it keeps increasing every time throughout ....IMHO 200% was just about right specially in the starting stages for a player to move forward without any waiting time for resources needed ....

 

[DeletedUser]

TLDR; everything. but culture demands are way to high
I like the idea of neighbors being able to polish the biggies...but they never seem to.
k.thx.

 

[DeletedUser724]

The New culture bonus system
That is very bad

It is player to determine whether he want to reach 200% culture bonus
There is a option for visitor which player wish visitor can do

I need a lot of coins to do trading..
I build sufficient culture to maintain 200% , so my coins /supplies will not affected by visitor 's help on culture bonus

I advise my visitor to help my town hall, which give me coins
so i can use those coins to do things to help city
especailly.... the coins required to scout is keep on raising with distance
coins is essential
several visitor help my townhall, i can do 1 scout

I also notice the culture bonus gone down form 200% to 170%
That is very bad too

If we want to increase to interaction with neighbour
please derive other method ....
e.g. donate army, trade goods with coins....

 

[DeletedUser724]

I usually note from time to time the culture required for my current bonus and the next.
And so far culture required between 120% bonus and 140% bonus is already almost the same value (always the same more or less 100 culture)

Exemple with my city 2 days ago :
to reach 120% I needed 1700 available culture
to reach 140% I needed 3500 available culture
to reach 170% I needed 7000 available culture
never been able to reach 200% bonus since a long time

So with the new system it should be (if I understood correctly) :
to reach 125% I needed 1700 available culture (same culture required for 5% more coins/supplies)
to reach 150% I needed 3400 available culture (10% more coins/supplies for less 100 culture)
to reach 160% I needed 5100 available culture (a lot less culture needed for this bonus, but less 10% coins/supplies)
to reach 170% I needed 6800 available culture (less 200 culture for this bonus compared to before)
no more 200% bonus (less 30% coins/supplies for people who are currently at 200%)

So I'm not sure this will solve anything...
In some case it could give a little more coins/supplies, but I'm not sure it'll be worth to build more cultural buildings to get these bonus.

I'll probably just stay at 100%. We'll see next week.

But thank you to developpers who try to improve this

The basic issue
it is not the amount of culture building

The problem is
the culture bonus of a culture is super too low when comparing with other buildings
After erecting buildings,
we have diffculties in playing becos we need to build a lot culture buildings
if those culture value can increase by 20 to 30 %, the game will look differenet

 

[DeletedUser]

I need 1800 culture for 125 %
I need 1900 culture for 150 % (yes, a third neighbour came around10 minutes with 125%)
Shouldn't it be 1800 more for 150%???

Still there are different numbers of needed cultures between the bonus levels. It was announced different! I beg for a moderator's answer, please