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Discussion Bonus Recalculation - Changes in Culture

DeletedUser136

Guest
Their are some of us, both premium and non premium, who built cities to take advantage of the 200% bonus... and now we are basically going to get penalized for doing so. It does help the majority of players since they chose to build based on max volume of goods/coins/supplies/armies that they could instead of going for the 200% threshold, but I don't understand the 'penalty' that others are going to have to take.

That said, I do know this is closed Beta and recalculations are to be expected. It doesn't mean I have to be happy about them.
 

DeletedUser326

Guest
Changing the timers would be a huge change from a balancing point of view, especially if you make them 50% longer. Though, that doesn't mean it is a bad idea per se. Please post this suggestion in our Ideas and Suggestions forum, so that we can see what other players think of such a change as well. :)

This was requested and posted in the Suggestion Forum several times. But there was never a real answer.
As i stated many times the 8 hours don't even cover a normal working cycle of 9-10 hours.

This is less of a Problem here in the beta where all time zones Play but will be a Major issue on "One TimeZone Servers" epecially europe and so on. The US has several timezones so there it will be less of an issue.

You haven't yet answered "Why reduce the maximum bonus from 200% to 170% ??? " I mean what was the main purpose of doing it ...

For the Moment you aren't quite advanced in the game. So ist maybe a bit difficult to understand.
At high Levels it is near to impossible to even reach 170% even with neighbourly help. I'm not THAT far in the game too but at the Moment i Need for even one main hall upgrade an additional culture building. Same goes for manufactories and other stuff.

The time you advance your buildings to Tier 2 and later on to Tier 3 you will automatically drop down in means of culture Surplus.
Your needed space will grow by about 30% only to upgrade existing buildings which gives you only the possibility to build 1-2 big culture buildings with new expensions.

Example: I will advance my residences to Tier 3 next week. This will Need double space 3x2 to 4x3 size. This is a total of 144 squares (6 City expansions) i Need only for upgrading them.
This will decrease my available culture by 1368 Points and raise the needed culture to maintain even 170% Bonus by another 800-1000 Points.

In the end this means i will drop to 140% without being able to build cultural buildings at all the next 1-2 months because i Need the next 6 epansions to upgrade the residences.

To the end of all i will Need another 5-7 expansions to upgrade all other buildings and build Tier 3 manufactories while not being able to build only one additional culture buildings. This will automatically drop you to 120% in current System for a very Long time without being able to reach 170% even if 10 neighbours would polish your culture at the same time.

Their are some of us, both premium and non premium, who built cities to take advantage of the 200% bonus... and now we are basically going to get penalized for doing so. It does help the majority of players since they chose to build based on max volume of goods/coins/supplies/armies that they could instead of going for the 200% threshold, but I don't understand the 'penalty' that others are going to have to take.

That said, I do know this is closed Beta and recalculations are to be expected. It doesn't mean I have to be happy about them.

Did you even reach the 200% Bonus? And did you the math what would happen when you only had 150% in the future but build more residences and Workshops with the freed space?

At the Moment i did the math for my next Upgrades. And regarding Khebelns post i will go better with dropping to 140% (150% in future) and build more Workshops residences.
In Future the Bonus 3 and 4 will give you a total of 20% which is much less if you would build only 4 additional residences and 2 additional Workshops.
For now i could build 4 additional Workshops and 10 additional residences and would have the same effect with much less wasted space then trying to reach 200% Bonus which is impossible even with my 5 helping neighbours and in 1 week it would be impossible even with 12 helping neighbours.




For my personal opinion i think this will improve the game a lot. Because in late game you will get a bit more Bonus then with the current System.
 
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DeletedUser420

Guest
We won't be releasing the exact formula for these calculations, but you are of course free to try and figure them out yourself!

In a previous post you actually answered my question, so here's the formula:
My required culture 2031, available culture 3277 and the boost without neighborly help gives 170% by the current formula.

But with new formula, with required culture 2031 I would need to double that number to only get to 125%, which is 4062 culture, or 2 more butcher on top of 7 + floating citadel I already have.

Or, half of my city used to give me 170% boost, now it will give me 100%.
 

DeletedUser326

Guest
In a previous post you actually answered my question, so here's the formula:
My required culture 2031, available culture 3277 and the boost without neighborly help gives 170% by the current formula.

But with new formula, with required culture 2031 I would need to double that number to only get to 125%, which is 4062 culture, or 2 more butcher on top of 7 + floating citadel I already have.

Thats absolutely false thinking. To maintain 100% you now Need 2031 culture plus about 3000 surplus available for 170%.

In the new System you will still Need 2031 for 100% (being able to even build the buildings) and for example 1000 Surplus for 125%, 2000 Surplus for 150%, 3000 Surplus for 160% and 4000 Surplus for 170%. These are no actual numbers but they could work in your Special case right now.

So you will at best drop to 150% Bonus and NOT to no Bonus at all.
The required culture to reach the next Bonus stage will NOT be Basic required culture * 2 as you stated. It will be more like:

Basic required culture to even maintain your buildings * 1 = 100%
Basic required culture to even maintain your buildings * 1.3 = 125% Bonus
Basic required culture to even maintain your buildings * 1.6 = 150% Bonus
Basic required culture to even maintain your buildings * 1.9 = 160% Bonus
Basic required culture to even maintain your buildings * 2.2 = 170% Bonus

Now ist more like:

Basic required culture to even maintain your buildings * 1 = 100%
Basic required culture to even maintain your buildings * 1.25 =120%
Basic required culture to even maintain your buildings * 1.5 = 140%
Basic required culture to even maintain your buildings * 2.2 = 170%
Basic required culture to even maintain your buildings * 3.0 = 200%

These are only fictive numbers but its enough to state it out.

In Future you will Need about the same amount for the same Bonus (170% stage) but with a steady increase of needed culture Surplus.
With reaching 200% Bonus being impossible right now the current System doesn't make any sense.
 

DeletedUser136

Guest
its not like anyone would ever get 200% at higher levels EVER.

reaching 200% Bonus being impossible right now

I really don't understand either of you. Its not freaking impossible to have 200% culture. Until yesterday I had it WITHOUT help, but since I know the changes are coming I let it drop back a bit and need 3 polishes to have it. My required culture is 12793 and my available is 20450... that gives me a total of 33243 which is just short of the 36450 I need to have the max bonus.

If I wanted to build a completely efficient city with the only purpose being having max points, I wouldn't care... but I didn't. I built my city to look like I wanted it to and still do ok in the rankings. I could knock down a bunch of culture buildings, add structures for points and jump my points total, but that's NOT how I choose to play the game at this moment.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
For the Moment you aren't quite advanced in the game. So ist maybe a bit difficult to understand.
At high Levels it is near to impossible to even reach 170% even with neighbourly help. I'm not THAT far in the game too but at the Moment i Need for even one main hall upgrade an additional culture building. Same goes for manufactories and other stuff.

The time you advance your buildings to Tier 2 and later on to Tier 3 you will automatically drop down in means of culture Surplus.
Your needed space will grow by about 30% only to upgrade existing buildings which gives you only the possibility to build 1-2 big culture buildings with new expensions.

Example: I will advance my residences to Tier 3 next week. This will Need double space 3x2 to 4x3 size. This is a total of 144 squares (6 City expansions) i Need only for upgrading them.
This will decrease my available culture by 1368 Points and raise the needed culture to maintain even 170% Bonus by another 800-1000 Points.

In the end this means i will drop to 140% without being able to build cultural buildings at all the next 1-2 months because i Need the next 6 epansions to upgrade the residences.

To the end of all i will Need another 5-7 expansions to upgrade all other buildings and build Tier 3 manufactories while not being able to build only one additional culture buildings. This will automatically drop you to 120% in current System for a very Long time without being able to reach 170% even if 10 neighbours would polish your culture at the same time.

Still all of this never answered my real question as to why the top bonus is reduced from 200% to 170% .... I can understand and trust what you are saying to be very much true that I will not be able to maintain 200% on my own .... But then if we had the 200% bonus maybe we could have achieved it with neighborly help as this new update is supposed to be pro-neighborly helps ....But we dont have that level of bonus at all ...

By the way I think it will be a better game if the choice how a player wants to play the game is left with the player rather than the game dictating in which way a player has to play the game ... the choice between having more cultures and lesser buildings / being self-dependent or having more buildings and lesser cultures depending on the neighborly help should be better left for the players to decide ... the game should try to make the players take the neighborly help route willingly rather than forcing them down the throat ... There's already a few discussions going on in this forum with some wanting to play this game on their own without being in a guild / group ... i feel this new update makes them forcefully join a group / guild just to get the highest possible bonuses from the cultures as neighborly help cannot be trusted even on the live servers from neighbors / friends and that I feel is not the right direction of this game ...
 
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DeletedUser420

Guest
Thats absolutely false thinking. To maintain 100% you now Need 2031 culture plus about 3000 surplus available for 170%.

Correction, I was wrong.
Current required culture (RC) 2031, but as you said my total culture is 5308.
If we now put these numbers into Goryn's formula (if you have 2000 and you need 2000 more to get to 125%, and the distance between levels of boost remains the same, then RCxN=level of boost, where N=1,2,3,4,5) we get
2031 for 100% boost
4062 for 125%
6093 for 150%
8124 for 160%
10155 for 170%

which is 125%, plus 2 more butcher to get to 150% (I'll need them anyway when my superior residencies come), I can live with that...
 

DeletedUser326

Guest
I really don't understand either of you. Its not freaking impossible to have 200% culture. Until yesterday I had it WITHOUT help, but since I know the changes are coming I let it drop back a bit and need 3 polishes to have it. My required culture is 12793 and my available is 20450... that gives me a total of 33243 which is just short of the 36450 I need to have the max bonus.

Thats only your case. And we are nnot talking about a City with 200-300$/€ or what currency you ever have invested. When i look at you City there are 75% Diamond culture Buildings which give you about 50% more culture then usual buildings would do and even with them you have covered nearly 50% of your space with culture which can't be the essence of the game. And a economy which is very much decent in output in my opinion. This makes much sense when you have acces to all good easily at the Trader.
The next Point is your likely active neighbourhood which polishes you when you Need it and not when you are away.

Overall said reaching 200% with good economy not 50% culture space requirements is impossible without having 30+ neighbours which polish every day 24/7.

So said a playre who only invests Money to get his 3-5 builders and all 15 Diamond expansions would Need about nearly 50-60% more space for the culture you have.
So i will correct me. And apologize for my failure.

It is impossible to reach 200% Bonus for all Players who won't invest a Minimum of 200 :insert currency here: OR sacrificing their economy to nearly nothing.

Correction, I was wrong.
Current required culture (RC) 2031, but as you said my total culture is 5308.
If we now put these numbers into Goryn's formula (if you have 2000 and you need 2000 more to get to 125%, and the distance between levels of boost remains the same, then RCxN=level of boost, where N=1,2,3,4,5) we get
2031 for 100% boost
4062 for 125%
6093 for 150%
8124 for 160%
10155 for 170%
Thats wrong too ;)

If you want to know how much culture Surplus you NOW Need to reach 120% you would have to sell all your culture buildings exept 5 butchers.

How can i explain it a bit graphical. Hope this explains it a bit better
tYET9M0.jpg


next Steps would be 4031 total (2000 surplus) for 150% ; 5031 total (3000 Surplus) for 160% and 6031 total (4000 Surplus) for 170%
 

DeletedUser58

Guest
It may be a good idea to wait and see how the change affects everyone first. :D
 

DeletedUser

Guest
It may be a good idea to wait and see how the change affects everyone first. :D

LOL...Very true ....but to the best of my knowledge from my past experience with Inno (some people here cringe on seeing the name of the other game so not taking it ;) ) once a change is applied they hardly ever go back on that ... thats why all these comments before its even applied with the hopes that atleast they might give it a re-think before applying the changes (which again they hardly ever do):D
 

iDavis

Well-Known Member
The new system is useful. However, I did not get into a situation when I have not any money or tools so I have only 2 or 3 culture buildings. :D But enjoyed the change. :)
 

DeletedUser205

Guest
iDavis you didn't? I I fear, this will happen, if you stay in the game (what I really hope) :)
Lack of coins and/or supplies is the basis of this game, I think
 

DeletedUser58

Guest
LOL...Very true ....but to the best of my knowledge from my past experience with Inno (some people here cringe on seeing the name of the other game so not taking it ;) ) once a change is applied they hardly ever go back on that ... thats why all these comments before its even applied with the hopes that atleast they might give it a re-think before applying the changes (which again they hardly ever do):D
True that, but still just looking at this thread a number of folks don't even understand how the change will affect them yet they're opposed to it. :D Any feature can be improved further but that doesn't mean that a small improvement is bad. At least how I understand it, I think it's an improvement from what we currently have. I guess we'll see.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
True that, but still just looking at this thread a number of folks don't even understand how the change will affect them yet they're opposed to it. :D Any feature can be improved further but that doesn't mean that a small improvement is bad. At least how I understand it, I think it's an improvement from what we currently have. I guess we'll see.

Oh Yeah ...For sure we will be seeing it ... that is confirmed ....Whether we like it or not ...Its already been announced ...:D ...

there's only one thing I really want to know very badly and I am yet to get an answer for it .... why the top bonus is being reduced from 200% to 170% ....it just gives me the impression that the developers feel reaching 170% is going to be that hard that we will stop thinking about 200% altogether ...:D
 

DeletedUser331

Guest
I do not know if I should find the new or revised system well.
it is so, then more on neighborly help at.
I do this in 41 players every day. reply do me only a handful of
for which I am grateful, but apart from the card index-offset some
the system give with and do not yet understand, unfortunately
 

DeletedUser136

Guest
why the top bonus is being reduced from 200% to 170%

That was my entire point, too... people can throw a million calculations at it and manipulate and say you can build more with the extra room... I just don't see the necessity in removing the top level bonus.
 

DeletedUser285

Guest
I am pretty sure the reason for reducing the max bonus from 200% to 170% is because they noticed players are progressing too fast and reaching the end-game sooner than was initially planned.
 

DeletedUser331

Guest
got another question about the update,
changes the fact that in the culture points by another
the construction of new buildings?
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I am pretty sure the reason for reducing the max bonus from 200% to 170% is because they noticed players are progressing too fast and reaching the end-game sooner than was initially planned.

Since culture only affects gold and supplies bonus, it has nothing to do with progressing too fast. The main thing you need in the tech tree are goods, so it doesn't matter how many coins and supplies you have, if you don't have the goods, you won't progress.
 
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