Discussion Sorcerers' Homecoming

[SoggyShorts]

Germany, where Innogames is located, is a modern country with highly educated people in a highly developed society.
I think it is a very bad turn of Innogames that they have employees who have missed 100 years of development and emancipation and still consider the man as the only manifestation of mankind.

That is not funny. That is embarrassing.

Methinks you might be offended just a touch too easily.

It's pretty likely that it went something like
"Hey art people we need an avatar for the grand prize"
-"here ya go, I made 2"
"oh I like the beardy one, let's use that and save the other one for the next event"

Do we actually think someone, or even better, multiple inno employees got together and came up with
"Make sure the avatar is male, because let's face it men are superior and will dominate the top 1% anyways"

If the only avatar was female my reaction would have been
"Meh. I hope the wife likes it."
I guess that's "male privilege"?

 

[Earwen1]

Do we actually think someone, or even better, multiple inno employees got together and came up with
"Make sure the avatar is male, because let's face it men are superior and will dominate the top 1% anyways"

No, If that was, it was easy to tackle, because everyone would recognize this as rediculous.

Methinks you might be offended just a touch too easily.

It's pretty likely that it went something like
"Hey art people we need an avatar for the grand prize"
-"here ya go, I made 2"
"oh I like the beardy one, let's use that and save the other one for the next event"

You hit the nails head exactly here!

It is an attitude, it is just this way of mainstream unconsciously behaviour - not thinking inclusively and by doing so, at least excluding half of the people - that leads to us - all the customers of this company - to end up with male only items.

That is exactly why I have to ring the bells and speak out loudly about this.

Really, believe me, I don't give a F*** about avatars or profile pictures. That is not the issue in the end. It is the way of (not) thinking and behaviour that is the issue here. And I will always speak out when I see this happen. Because all of us deserve better.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Because all of us deserve better.

Or, just maybe, it doesn't actually matter.
I don't like birds, so the birdy avatar wasn't for me.
Oh well, maybe next time, but I hope it makes someone else happy.
I'm not a full-beard guy so this one is no more inclusive to me than a woman would be.
Oh well, maybe next time, but I hope it makes someone else happy.

 

[Earwen1]

Or, just maybe, it doesn't actually matter.
I don't like birds, so the birdy avatar wasn't for me.
Oh well, maybe next time, but I hope it makes someone else happy.
I'm not a full-beard guy so this one is no more inclusive to me than a woman would be.
Oh well, maybe next time, but I hope it makes someone else happy.

Read again, the last 2 lines of the post that you replied to.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Read again, the last 2 lines of the post that you replied to.

And again, I feel it's unimportant. IMO you're making a mountain out of a molehill.
It wasn't malice.
It wasn't unthinking assumptions.
It wasn't sexist.
It wasn't a lack of desire to make things inclusive.
It was simply an artistic choice.

It could very well have been a case where the female avatar was way better than the bearded one and they wanted to save it for an event where more than 1% of players would get it.
You don't know, so you assume.
Just like you assume the bearded avatar is male. Perhaps zer identifies as non-binary. Perhaps it's a dwarf (their females have beards too)
Maybe it's a lady with a hormone imbalance.
If you can imagine that you are being insulted or not included, why can't you imagine those scenarios too?

 

[Pauly7]

It is an attitude, it is just this way of mainstream unconsciously behaviour - not thinking inclusively and by doing so, at least excluding half of the people - that leads to us - all the customers of this company - to end up with male only items.

I don't think it's that at all. Firstly, all of the avatars on Elvenar are pretty much 50/50 male and female, the ones you can tell, so that is inclusive.

So really, one picture appeared in this game which happens to be a guy with a beard and people are aghast, saying that this game is not inclusive. That's frankly nonsense. Not every image of a male in the world has to be accompanied by an equal and opposite female. I actually think it's more sexist of people who have jumped on this as being some kind of issue. Next you'll be saying that every scene in every movie has to have an exact even number of males and females in it.

 

[Ainor]

i Doubt us girls want to look hairy

I find this more insulting and more stereotyping than a male avatar

 

[SoggyShorts]

So really, one picture appeared in this game which happens to be a guy with a beard and people are aghast, saying that this game is not inclusive.

Exactly.

If there was a pervasive culture of sexism or non-inclusivity, I'd be right there supporting a change, but I don't believe that's the case.

Do the NPCs make assumptions in the storyline such as
"Thank you kind sir for your assistance"?
Are characters portrayed based on offensive stereotypes and gender roles?
Is there a culture of misogyny at the inno headquarters?
Are forums mods and other positions dominated by one gender?

Jumping at shadows like this avatar "issue" weakens our position when real problems arise. It's a bit of a crying wolf situation IMO.

 

[Earwen1]

And again, I feel it's unimportant. IMO you're making a mountain out of a molehill.
It wasn't malice.
It wasn't unthinking assumptions.
It wasn't sexist.
It wasn't a lack of desire to make things inclusive.
It was simply an artistic choice.

I did not say that. You say it...

It could very well have been a case where the female avatar was way better than the bearded one and they wanted to save it for an event where more than 1% of players would get it.
You don't know, so you assume.
Just like you assume the bearded avatar is male. Perhaps zer identifies as non-binary. Perhaps it's a dwarf (their females have beards too)
Maybe it's a lady with a hormone imbalance.
If you can imagine that you are being insulted or not included, why can't you imagine those scenarios too?

You are assuming a lot here, not me.

It is neither a mountain, nor a molehill.
There is a big pink elephant in the room, but nobody wants to see it. Because that is too uncomfortable.

I don't think it's that at all. Firstly, all of the avatars on Elvenar are pretty much 50/50 male and female, the ones you can tell, so that is inclusive.

So really, one picture appeared in this game which happens to be a guy with a beard and people are aghast, saying that this game is not inclusive. That's frankly nonsense. Not every image of a male in the world has to be accompanied by an equal and opposite female. I actually think it's more sexist of people who have jumped on this as being some kind of issue. Next you'll be saying that every scene in every movie has to have an exact even number of males and females in it.

Wrong assumptions.

If you ask an art department for 1 profile picture, you naturally get a picture with masculine characteristics. It is automatic.
Because people think in fixed patterns. My call is (here and everywhere) to break through those fixed patterns of thinking (and acting).

And yes, I know a lot of people get angry because it is uncomfortable and can make you nervous.
And yet I keep saying it because it is necessary.

The old-fashioned thought patterns have to be thrown away everywhere.

 

[Earwen1]

And now it's Friday night, off for some entertainment. Have a nice weekend!

 

[SoggyShorts]

If you ask an art department for 1 profile picture, you naturally get a picture with masculine characteristics. It is automatic.

Totally baseless assumption, you can't possibly know that this was the case.

And yes, I know a lot of people get angry because it is uncomfortable and can make you nervous.

Nope. You just make people roll their eyes when you make baseless accusations and attack without cause.
Then when a real issue arises, no one will listen to you.

 

[little bee]

Sigh, this debate is getting annoying.
My oppinion: This avatar is nice. And it would be nice, if the next one is female.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Sigh, this debate is getting annoying.

 

[streilers]

good evening, in the middle of the sorcerer's event, I'm chapter 2 in my city, a little late on the quests because complicated to get catalytic it takes time, I was wondering if there was a list of quests somewhere, like this is often the case it would not be bad, thank you for your answers

 

[Hazel Caballus]

I‘d like to emphasize the point that this event is the very first one introducing the league system to Elvenar. So it does stand out from the seemingly endless number of events we‘re used to encounter.
IMO the role of this event and the fact that the avatar will be given to the 1% category only makes the choice of the avatar much more important. If the avatar was the last milestone, like in previous events, I wouldn’t have cared about it at all.
For me, it is not really a big issue, but I am pretty sure that I won’t be the only one who sees the avatar and feels a little offended by potential implications, along the lines “Of course they chose a male avatar because they assume that the top 1% players will be mostly male“.

Actually, the quest givers address all players as being male, but that’s just a side note.
I‘ve came across this interesting idea in the Elvenar EN forum and it seems to be of interest for Inno officials, too.

Maybe it’s not too late to think about the current event as there won’t be a real chance to counterbalance this choice by using a female avatar for the next event (because of the special role of this event being the very first one with a league system).

 

[SoggyShorts]

I was wondering if there was a list of quests somewhere,

www.tinyurl.com/sorchome

 

[reinhardz]

I am stuck in Quest #6 'Spend Knowledge Points'. Level 1 player, have KP but can not spend any Research Level 1 completed. Any way out ?

 

[Lelanya]

I am stuck in Quest #6 'Spend Knowledge Points'. Level 1 player, have KP but can not spend any Research Level 1 completed. Any way out ?

Get out of the chapter.
Or
Write Support and see what they say.

 

[streilers]

www.tinyurl.com/sorchome

thank you

 

[UlyssesBlue]

I don't like how leagues is competitive, and my prizes depend on beating other players. We have enough competitive things in this game, i.e. tournaments, adventure, etc. It was nice to have at least one thing that wasn't, so I could go at my own pace and not fuss about what anyone else was doing. Now we no longer have that.

Also, a bit disappointed that the final prize avatar is male, as this excludes a large part of the player base. Should have either had a female avatar available as well, or it should have been something gender neutral, like the phoenix and goblin-flower of previous events. Perhaps an ent/tree or mana creature?