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Discussion Royal Restoration Spell

shadowblack

Well-Known Member
Upgrading event buildings seems to take as long as building them - at least that was the case with my Mana Huts. So you won't lose more than a few minutes - and that's if you upgrade the same building several times in a row.

There's really no need to upgrade buildings that are still in your inventory.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
Why get angry at a game? If it is no longer entertaining I will just move on to another. And with these changes it will be very difficult to find elvenar amusing as soon as the next race pops in
I'm not angry at a game but at people responsible for those changes.
And quitting a game usualy takes several stages.
From stage when you stop paying, through stage when you start threatening with quitting until the stage when you simply quit.
 

RandomNo.

Well-Known Member
changing 1 bp = 10 RR but needing more RR to upgrade Magic buildings?

Okay you said, Magic buildings will still need 320 diamonds to upgrade. Right now I have 24 bps, which can upgrade 24 magic buildings, which is worth 7,680 diamonds.

24 bp = 240 RR.If 240 RR and can only upgrade, say, 20 magic buildings, it means my 24 bp changed from being worth 7,680 diamonds to being worth 6,400 diamonds (OR LESS)

That's a really cheap move
 

palmira

Well-Known Member
changing 1 bp = 10 RR but needing more RR to upgrade Magic buildings?

Okay you said, Magic buildings will still need 320 diamonds to upgrade. Right now I have 24 bps, which can upgrade 24 magic buildings, which is worth 7,680 diamonds.

24 bp = 240 RR.If 240 RR and can only upgrade, say, 20 magic buildings, it means my 24 bp changed from being worth 7,680 diamonds to being worth 6,400 diamonds (OR LESS)

That's a really cheap move
Depending on the chapter you are in, way less. 240 RR will upgrade 10 magic workshops (less in the next race) in the amuni so you will loose half, your 7,680 diamonds will be worth only 3,840
 

RandomNo.

Well-Known Member
Depending on the chapter you are in, way less. 240 RR will upgrade 10 magic workshops (less in the next race) in the amuni so you will loose half, your 7,680 diamonds will be worth only 3,840
exactly right.

So @Marindor, since we won those blueprints (worth 320 diamonds each now) fair and square by completing 10 chests in tournaments, why are we being shortchanged by the exchange rate?
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Hi everyone,

Thanks for your feedback so far.

Regarding your feedback about comparing the value of Royal Restoration Spells to Blueprints: The goal of adjusting the costs to the respective tile sizes of the buildings was to give you the option to upgrade your favorite event buildings, no matter if they are very big or super small. Prior to the conversion, you would have needed to spend 1 RBlueprint for the upgrade of each building, maybe even 2 for the biggest and strongest event buildings. Small buildings, on the other hand, would have also cost one Spell, which would have made them the worst upgrade option available, essentially penalizing you for wanting to keep that building in your city.

Regarding your concerns about the conversion rate, we do understand that, especially for players in higher chapters, everything seems more expensive. At the same time, however, we also need to keep players in earlier chapters in mind. All of our calculations right now are based on a value of one blueprint being 10 Royal Restoration spells. Premium Residences, for instance, as the most commonly placed premium buildings, have an average tile size of 10.85 combined for Humans and Elves. As you can see, the average for these is slightly above 10, due to higher Chapter buildings being bigger, but also significantly more effective. If you take Elves, the first premium residential above 10 tiles of size occurs as late as Chapter 8. Before that point in time, each upgrade actually even costs less than it did with Blueprints before.

This in turn means that each tournament completion now gives the equivalent needed to upgrade an average residence, and then some. Additionally, it has become a lot easier for smaller Fellowships to gain the Royal Restoration Spells for their members, as the conversion now allows us to split up the spells and put them already in earlier chests. Of course, the demands will increase over time in the game. That is only natural.

Of course, bigger buildings require more spells (because their output is a lot higher as well). Please also look at the fact that for smaller event buildings, it means that you can now upgrade more buildings per week than you would have with just 1 BP. Counting the overall average output per tile, it should be balanced in a fair way. Also: You don't have to make it to the final chest in the tournaments anymore to still be able to gain Royal Restoration Spells, so in general they will be obtainable for far more players than just the really fanatic ones who were able to acquire Blueprints before.

Either way, we will of course keep a close eye on the developments on Beta, that is the whole point of testing the release early. Therefore we also appreciate your comments and concerns, but please take some time and test these changes as well, play tournaments, upgrade some buildings, and let us know how everything feels. :)
I call this calculation towards a desirable outcome, it would make way more sense to use the average ingame size of a magic residence/workshop as the average return value.
It's like using the average gross income in a country by including the income data from 30 years ago. and then telling you you are earning way to much because the "calculated" average is lower. ignoring inflation.

Now you are using tiny buildings to make the math work that only exist en the very first stages of the game that you pass trough in mere days to first 3-4 weeks.

There is also a disparity between the human and the elven players. all houses from the fairy chapters and before the human versions are bigger than the elves putting them at an disadvantage.

I like the idea of upgradable buildings using the tile size as a price factor, I just dont like the conversion ratio, and the new tourney numbers.

I would be content with the number 15. but I am really unhappy with the number 10. even more as it doesnt make sense at all that all previous 10 tourney chest are worth 10 spells but the new ones 11.

Should the number not be at least 11 then?
Still to low but at least better then 10. I still like 15 as a more "sane" number.
 

LayDHawk2

Member
:rolleyes: well! I just used some of the restoration whatever they are on some of my event buildings! There is a significant change in product that I get now with those spells, including culture and population. Use them don't use them, its up to each of us to identify what we want most out of the buildings we keep. :) For my little city, here, I couldn't wait to try it!
 

RandomNo.

Well-Known Member
Should the number not be at least 11 then?
Still to low but at least better then 10. I still like 15 as a more "sane" number.
this too. Devaluation of BPs through conversion to RR is bad enough, but to have it convert to 10 RRs when 10 chests now give 11 is a double devaluation - isn't it the same 10 chests? I thought the Great Depression ended in 1933
 
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SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
While I find the ratio very disappointing, I think the minimum fix is to make Magic buildings a fixed 10 RR cost to upgrade. I only have the one we got for free, but I can't see how this change is fair to your heavily spending customers. The ability to upgrade event buildings will never even come close to what they are losing.
 

palmira

Well-Known Member
While I find the ratio very disappointing, I think the minimum fix is to make Magic buildings a fixed 10 RR cost to upgrade. I only have the one we got for free, but I can't see how this change is fair to your heavily spending customers. The ability to upgrade event buildings will never even come close to what they are losing.
I think it should be obvious that magic buildings upgrade price should remain constant otherwise it will be a game stopper for the players that invested heavily on them. So basically the idea of this change was to penalize people for spending on the game? It seems a pretty bad idea to me...
 

TomatoeHu

Well-Known Member
If one blueprint = 10 restoration spells and that doesn't upgrade a magical building anymore, ( they need up to 16 RR per = 2x 10 chest tournaments )
Why would players want this spell?

Remember, that the CHOICE to upgrade event buildings was to be a Blueprint's "new option" , make it more relevant to all players.
I cannot imagine players were expecting Inno to break a blueprints value BELOW its original use.

Players actually work hard and as a team to gather the blueprint in tournaments when they cost 1 blueprint per magical building, 1 blueprint per 10 Chest.
Now you are REDUCING their EFFORTS and require them to win TWO 10 chest tournaments, just to upgrade one magical building?!?!?!

Players invest a lot of their city space, time and resources to complete ONE 10 chest tournament and as an AM, I will have to tell them they now have to do twice as much to level their magical buildings or purchase Diamonds straight up for equal BP strength. No one cares about your conversion for upgrading event buildings, obviously that is new and at Innos discretion, but the Blueprint before should equal a freaking Blueprint after the restoration spell.

Will Inno balance the tournaments better? Reduce the costs to complete the tournaments now that we have to do two for one?

** The only magical building i own was given to me when Inno nuked the value on event buildings to prepare for this spell.
First, Inno destroys the value of our current special event buildings earlier this year and tosses us a free magical building for this "inconvenience" ...
Then, Inno destroys the value /effectiveness of the blueprint, charging you more...... to get more diamond purchases from their players.

This is a Garbage Change. Way to suck every last penny out of your players. VERY DISAPPOINTING, feels like we just got a bunch of Doggy Doo in our stockings, and that Scrouge and the Grinch paired up for this stinky update....
 

Richord

Well-Known Member
Finally it's here and it seems to work.
Not easy yet to calc if a very old building is worth upgrading, but elvenarchitect has a page to see which buildings are the best of their kind.

This game is ridiculous financial-wise. Making magic buildings more expansive (although it's a 'free' way of upgrading) is inno-logic and therefor nobody knows why...

And yes; getting 11x should have happened if 11 becomes the norm.
And yes; 11x is on the low side looking at the amount of buildings we (can) get in events; many have several buildings and at least 2 magic ones.
1 chapter every 6? months (way too few btw) =26x11=286 = about 18 buildings of 4x4. MAYBE with our current stock will this be enough to not get very sad about this upgrade, but only a little.

IF inno decides to work harder and better and give us new chapters faster, 11x blueprint is just not going to cut it. We'll be forced to cut in our amount of eventbuildings and money-players won't be able to upgrade eventstuff besides their magicbuildings.
oh oh inno....
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Lots of interesting math... So 1 magic workshop 320 diamonds, 24 squares for chapter 13.

You will only be able to do 5/12th of it, so only 133.33 diamonds worth of it and short 187 diamonds of value on a single building...

On workshops it is a 58% slash of value.

changing 1 bp = 10 RR but needing more RR to upgrade Magic buildings?

Okay you said, Magic buildings will still need 320 diamonds to upgrade. Right now I have 24 bps, which can upgrade 24 magic buildings, which is worth 7,680 diamonds.

24 bp = 240 RR.If 240 RR and can only upgrade, say, 20 magic buildings, it means my 24 bp changed from being worth 7,680 diamonds to being worth 6,400 diamonds (OR LESS)

That's a really cheap move
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
That seems a fair compromise, although I've been wanting them for my bigger event items I've been saving for ages upon ages and feel totally screwed here...

While I find the ratio very disappointing, I think the minimum fix is to make Magic buildings a fixed 10 RR cost to upgrade. I only have the one we got for free, but I can't see how this change is fair to your heavily spending customers. The ability to upgrade event buildings will never even come close to what they are losing.
 

Mykan

Well-Known Member
Thank you for the explanations so far Marindor. Firstly I am very glad and excited to see the royal restoration spell finally here and with it the ability to upgrade event buildings. The positives for me with this change are:
  • Can upgrade event buildings
  • Accessibility of the spells through the tournament so some benefit is obtained for a reasonable effort
  • Spells needed reflect building size. Personally I was not that concerned about most small buildings upgrading and the ones I did I was prepared to pay a blueprint cause I value them. This however does balance out that consideration but brings in other considerations.
Sadly there are a number of areas that I have an issue with.
  • The conversation rate of blueprints to spells - probably my biggest issue
  • The devaluation of tournaments and the achievement of 10 chests
  • The devaluation of a "blueprint". They held value each chapter as 1 blueprint was 1 building, now they lose value each chapter as we need an ever increasing amount.

Let me go into these in more detail
Conversion rate
Regarding your concerns about the conversion rate, we do understand that, especially for players in higher chapters, everything seems more expensive. At the same time, however, we also need to keep players in earlier chapters in mind. All of our calculations right now are based on a value of one blueprint being 10 Royal Restoration spells. Premium Residences, for instance, as the most commonly placed premium buildings, have an average tile size of 10.85 combined for Humans and Elves.
Absolutely get this, but it is also my problem. For me an amuni house is 16 squares and a workshop 24, so an average of 20. We now need 2 blueprints for 1 building. Our current blueprint inventor loses half of its value. However if I am far enough back in the chapter (haven't checked where) I could get a huge benefit from such a static conversion. Is there any way to make the initial conversion chapter based using the existing magic buildings as a basis? As magic buildings are the current method of spend it would be seen as fainer by players to be used as a basis in some fashion.

Even if this was handled in 2 parts by a base conversion and then a chapter related adjustment if the coding was simpler to do it that way.

Another aspect here was the event building re-balancing and the promise of a blueprint and a magic residence. For some players that residence can be upgraded with the 10 spells and perhaps some left over, for others they can't upgrade that building at all. It feels like this promised compensation has been reduced as a factor of the conversion.

Tournament devaluation
This in turn means that each tournament completion now gives the equivalent needed to upgrade an average residence, and then some
Of course, the demands will increase over time in the game. That is only natural.
you don't have to make it to the final chest in the tournaments anymore to still be able to gain Royal Restoration Spells, so in general they will be obtainable for far more players than just the really fanatic ones who were able to acquire Blueprints before.
This is all part of the problem. Every chapter the tournament loses value as the cost goes up. The tenth chest was held out to be a major goal and something to be achieved and proud of. It encouraged collaboration and coordination. The shine has more than a little been removed from obtaining 10 chests.

The devaluation from chapter to chapter is harder to handle and I gather from the above statements not an issue. What about the devaluation of the 10th chest? Is there plans to pad out the 10th chest in some way so it is still seen as a huge goal, achievement and worth the effort to obtain it?

Conclusion
Please consider this feedback and the possibility of some minor changes to make this an awesome update by:
  • Reviewing conversation rate to be chapter specific
  • Reviewing 10th chest rewards to be unique and rewarding for the effort
 
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SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
The tenth chest was held out to be a major goal and something to be achieved and proud of. It encouraged collaboration and coordination. The shine has more than a little been removed from obtaining 10 chests.
I couldn't agree more. There are so few goals in this game that removing the motivation for 10 chests is a very saddening change.:oops::(
Sure, give smaller fellowships a taste, like 1 RR in chest 3,6,9, but keep the bulk of the reward for something special.

The current change gives a FS of players who do 3 provinces to 6 stars 5/11 RR rewards.
Kinda crazy.
 
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Richord

Well-Known Member
I'm all for RR only in chest 10.
I'm all for RR to be >14:1
but, what about meeting in the middle concerning when we get them?
Put them only in 8,9,10
3RR, 4-5RR, 7-8RR
 

Elrondriel

Well-Known Member
Premium Residences, for instance, as the most commonly placed premium buildings, have an average tile size of 10.85 combined for Humans and Elves. As you can see, the average for these is slightly above 10, ...
Why would Level 1 Residences be counted in here ? Isn't the upgrade cost based on the upgrade level building ?
Based on the latter assumption, the average tile size of all previous buildings applicable to BP use is 13.71 (which is "slightly above 13" in Innoworld and "slightly below 14" everywhere else ;)).

Just wondering, whether the popup shouldn't better say "summonable buildings" instead of "event building" as those are not only available in events since crafting introduction.

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