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Discussion Royal Restoration Spell

Mizpah

Well-Known Member
I understand. The original plan, not the last one, but when they first introduced the idea; the RR spell was going to replace the BP. That lead people to believe that one RR would upgrade one magical building or one event building. These new propositions are totally different.

First of all, my FS here and my FS in Winyandor could care less about BP's. I don't know that the one here cares about the RRs. The one in Winyandor will want the RRs but are going to be complaining to me as archmage about the fact that it takes so many RR to upgrade an event building.

My disappointment lies in the fact that it is not going to motivate players to work toward that 10th chest with the BP in it. That means I will continue to buy diamonds if I want to keep playing. It will, instead, cause even more players to migrate to the 10 chest fellowships.

Their suggestions now are different than when they originally introduced the idea - a very long time ago. I was excited about it when they first spoke of it. Now, it means nothing to me. I try not to keep event buildings around because they lose their usefulness. RRs will not be converted to BPs unless they change their plans and, if they did, it would be at such a cost that it would be easier to just buy diamonds.
 

Mizpah

Well-Known Member
Edit: or are you trying to get your magic buildings upgraded without getting 10 chests? In which case I see what you're getting at with conveeting RR to BPs
No, I'm trying to get players motivated to get that 10th chest. Since so many of my members in Win have and depend on event buildings, I had high hopes it would be reason for them to work harder.

Edit: Instead, I am going to be forced to choose between a FS I started and built or moving to a 10 chest fellowship. Therein lies the disappointment and hurt.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
I think there are many players who are too new to remember what it was like when Fellowship Tournaments were invented.
We had existing teams who traded with each other, did our visits, and chatted. Many of us made friends.
Then came a pretty drastic change where dedicated (more hardcore) fellowships could earn Blueprints. This new feature was great for anyone with magic buildings as they had a set real $$$ value. The carrot for F2P was that they would upgrade event buildings.(someday soon we thought)

What happened though was a pretty painful transition. A lot of players didn't want to play as often as is required for a team to reach 10 chests, and others simply werent set up to make enough troops or goods to do their part.
What do you do when 17 of your fellows want to go for it every week and 7 have no interest?
So some fellowships were fractured and even some friends were lost.
This will happen again.

Any fellowship that gets 10 chests and has a mix of premium and free players will need to have a serious talk(again for some). According to elvenstats this is more than 10,000 of the most active players in elvenar.
"Is the effort worth it for the free players with the removal of the BP promise?" Will all 25 players feel the same and be happy with their fellowship's choice? Doubtful.
 

blackbudahflyb

Well-Known Member
I can see how separating the BP from the RR would seem to resolve the previous RR release issues. However the RR was originally created to fulfill a promise to make BP's usable to players without magic buildings. With this latest update, we have a new feature...the RR. Which is great. However the BP still has no use for players with no magic buildings. So the promise still has yet to be fulfilled.

I agree with many others, in that a simple conversion or "disenchant" like feature for BPs could resolve this issue. I would love to be able to turn BP's into RRs if I choose to. Giving players options in regards to BP's would allow players to choose what kind of value a BP would have that best suits their play style and city level. Please consider some versatility in future game updates, especially in regards to BPs, getting to choose what you want to do with an item or building is amazing.

Some examples of this are:
The Winter Ferris Wheel building
The many options of which AWs to build
The different spells creatable in the MA.

All of the above allow a player the choice of what is best for his/her city at the current time AND can be changed as a players city needs change or play style changes.
 

Heymrdiedier

Well-Known Member
No, I'm trying to get players motivated to get that 10th chest. Since so many of my members in Win have and depend on event buildings, I had high hopes it would be reason for them to work harder.

Edit: Instead, I am going to be forced to choose between a FS I started and built or moving to a 10 chest fellowship. Therein lies the disappointment and hurt.
so we get 52 blueprints a year. with 2 GR a year, that means 26 BP available. so basically for eveyone who has less then 26 magical buildings (costing 1400 each) it isnt worth being in a tournament FS, its better to get them occasionaly once and a while. me personally i dont know how to keep my FS motivated now to keep going for 10 chests.

I had some BP stockpiled yes, and i also have some magical buildings who are upgradable. I was saving my BP because i would rather use them on some of the eventbuildings i like. I want to upgrade my magical buildings too ofcourse, but i cant pay diamonds for that upgrade when i have at least 1 BP. So im also upset because ive been crippling myself with keeping old event buildings and keeping old magical buildings because of a feature that was coming very soon after the nerf at introduction of last GR.
 

Lovec Krys

Well-Known Member
@Heymrdiedier and all others long time at the end of tech tree:
Don't forget about people who are not at the end of tech tree yet and have magic buildings. They do much more chapters per year then just 2.
In my case I recently hit last chapter on my main city and with my 10 magic buildings (5 houses,5 workshops) I have maybe 2 or 3 BP left (only because our FS does 10th chest every week).

But as I previously posted in this thread I'm for adding an conversion tool between BP & RR.
If it works both ways (BP to RR & RR to BP (with original ratio 1BP:10RR)) I think 99% players would be satisfied.
So with current RR implementation just the conversion tool is missing.
 

bowdenark

Member
Basing the tournament on the bp is a total nonsense, make 10 treasure chests are many points to put on wonders, runes spells and to be recycled in the academy of magic this is the meaning. Punishing who pays for this game with an unbalanced conversion rate is a nonsense, giving an opportunity to those who have not spent diamonds is the sense. It's not a shake to the head, it's looking at reality and being right.
Obviously all I write is imho and my honest opinion is that this time they did the right thing.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
@Heymrdiedier and all others long time at the end of tech tree:
Don't forget about people who are not at the end of tech tree yet and have magic buildings. They do much more chapters per year then just 2.
In my case I recently hit last chapter on my main city and with my 10 magic buildings (5 houses,5 workshops) I have maybe 2 or 3 BP left (only because our FS does 10th chest every week).

But as I previously posted in this thread I'm for adding an conversion tool between BP & RR.
If it works both ways (BP to RR & RR to BP (with original ratio 1BP:10RR)) I think 99% players would be satisfied.
So with current RR implementation just the conversion tool is missing.
I am ok with a BP->RR conversion of 6, which brings us back to the original 11 a few weeks back.

This is stil way worse then a few weeks back (because our past RR gave 11 to not 6) tho but in today's light much better than the current solution.
And it's true new players have way more chapters but eventually they hit the same roadblock.

It also restores the 10the chest to it's ful glory since for everyone paying or free player the 10th chest really gives a true top reward.
because 6+1=7 RR, right nog you get 60% of the RR spell by doing only half the tourney points. this will then be again reduced to 27% which makes sense.
 

RandomNo.

Well-Known Member
Basing the tournament on the bp is a total nonsense, make 10 treasure chests are many points to put on wonders, runes spells and to be recycled in the academy of magic this is the meaning.
Thank you for speaking my thoughts

The deal we get now is rather bad, in that it's not a middle ground option

But 10 chests is not only about the BP. If you really don't care for upgrading magic buildings, then you can just let 10 chests go. Why does it matter to you anyway? But if you want 10 chests for the other rewards too, then those are still there.

People here like to speak in hyperbole all the time. For example things like "a new AW will let everyone beat me in the tournaments"

And

"Only getting a BP instead of RR in 10th chest makes it absolutely pointless to go for 10 and the sun will set on my FS because of this"
 
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LordB

Well-Known Member
I am ok with a BP->RR conversion of 6, which brings us back to the original 11 a few weeks back.

This is stil way worse then a few weeks back (because our past RR gave 11 to not 6) tho but in today's light much better than the current solution.
I still feel 6 is a little low, but indeed better then it is now. "Mixed" player with magic and event buildings can upgrade way more tiles in the later chapters then players could, who are only interested in event buildings, so I would say at least 10 RR from one BP should be reasonable.
To make up for the month waiting and collecting blueprints to upgrade event buildings I suggest a short time offer to to convert existing Blueprints at a higher rate to make up for the "missing" RR from the prep time.
On live I have quite some "diamond industry" with a couple event citys collecting wishing wells to support my main city, so diamonds aren't a big issue there, so I'll watch which way the BP/RR thing/spell ratio will go... If it's not changed I tend to place like 10 magic buildings (without spending real money) to have a use for the blueprints, even though I would more like to be able to upgrade event buildings with them, because I collected a lot that I liked and dream of a nice looking park area in my city.:)
Furthermore I don't get the current stinginess with RR...with so many event buildings that we can get, I don't think it matters much if we have a city full of buildings from older events, or the newest ones.:confused:

It also restores the 10the chest to it's ful glory since for everyone paying or free player the 10th chest really gives a true top reward.
because 6+1=7 RR, right nog you get 60% of the RR spell by doing only half the tourney points. this will then be again reduced to 27% which makes sense.
Agreed, making BP convertable the 10th is a nice goal for everyone again. :)
 
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erroniel

Member
Furthermore I don't get the current stinginess with RR...with so many event buildings that we can get, I don't think it matters much if we have a city full of buildings from older events, or the newest ones.:confused:
With each new chapter/guest race, all existing event buildings will deteriorate. And even though there for sure will be new events, there is no guarantee that these will come with new event buildings that can replace the old ones ( I'm still sitting on a Venar's Rock I that I would like to upgrade ).

This last event I invested in Winter Stars because of the promise that these could be upgraded. With the current BP/RR proposal, it will take too long to be a viable approach.
 

Milton

Member
However the RR was originally created to fulfill a promise to make BP's usable to players without magic buildings. With this latest update, we have a new feature...the RR. Which is great. However the BP still has no use for players with no magic buildings. So the promise still has yet to be fulfilled.
This is the point of everything. Those who haven't figured it out yet are leading a war against a little correction that could/should be made (possibility of converting BP in RR), because are content with this last update, forgetting the origin of RR itself.
 
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ioulia

Member
I have 1 question, very simple. I have 99 BP and 1 magic building. What should I do with BP?
You have entered a BP reward. For 2 years now, players without magical buildings have a half prize for the 10th chest. Players with magical could use it, we are not. If initially it was said that only players with magical buildings could use the BP, everything would be different. You do not respect and value your players! Never did it.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
Players are very short sighed if they consider the blueprint as the only reason to go for the 10 chests, especially if they've been playing 10 chests. I was pushing 10 chests on the old tournament system before blueprints.

I think there are many players who are too new to remember what it was like when Fellowship Tournaments were invented.
We had existing teams who traded with each other, did our visits, and chatted. Many of us made friends.
Then came a pretty drastic change where dedicated (more hardcore) fellowships could earn Blueprints. This new feature was great for anyone with magic buildings as they had a set real $$$ value. The carrot for F2P was that they would upgrade event buildings.(someday soon we thought)

What happened though was a pretty painful transition. A lot of players didn't want to play as often as is required for a team to reach 10 chests, and others simply werent set up to make enough troops or goods to do their part.
What do you do when 17 of your fellows want to go for it every week and 7 have no interest?
So some fellowships were fractured and even some friends were lost.
This will happen again.

Any fellowship that gets 10 chests and has a mix of premium and free players will need to have a serious talk(again for some). According to elvenstats this is more than 10,000 of the most active players in elvenar.
"Is the effort worth it for the free players with the removal of the BP promise?" Will all 25 players feel the same and be happy with their fellowship's choice? Doubtful.
Have you surveyed players about the bigger picture of tons of KP from the tournament? Again, it is very short sighted to think of the 10 chests as only for the blueprint.

I think the bigger issue is a wave of quitters because of the useless stockpiled blueprints and the false promise that they would be able to use them.

so we get 52 blueprints a year. with 2 GR a year, that means 26 BP available. so basically for eveyone who has less then 26 magical buildings (costing 1400 each) it isnt worth being in a tournament FS, its better to get them occasionaly once and a while. me personally i dont know how to keep my FS motivated now to keep going for 10 chests.

I had some BP stockpiled yes, and i also have some magical buildings who are upgradable. I was saving my BP because i would rather use them on some of the eventbuildings i like. I want to upgrade my magical buildings too ofcourse, but i cant pay diamonds for that upgrade when i have at least 1 BP. So im also upset because ive been crippling myself with keeping old event buildings and keeping old magical buildings because of a feature that was coming very soon after the nerf at introduction of last GR.
I thought the conversion rate of 11 was low. It slaughter expectation of one building one upgrade, so my 25 square building with say 3 chapters to upgrade went from 3 tournaments to 7. My 16 square building needing 4 chapters went from 4 to 6....

Now with this 5 RR spell idea the 25 square building with 3 chapters went from needing 3 tournament to 15, and 16 square building went from needing 4 tournaments to 11.

Weighted average on my magic buildings gives a conversion of 18.

I just counted how many chapter levels for upgrading event items that I would like, and I counted 57 to get them to chapter 14, and that was with rejecting 12 other event buildings that had been on my maybe list.

That's just over a year with what I was led to believe we were getting, and with my other calculation with what inno came up with it is about 10 years...

So if they added a BP->RR conversion of 6 it is still a massive take.

I am ok with a BP->RR conversion of 6, which brings us back to the original 11 a few weeks back.

This is stil way worse then a few weeks back (because our past RR gave 11 to not 6) tho but in today's light much better than the current solution.
And it's true new players have way more chapters but eventually they hit the same roadblock.

It also restores the 10the chest to it's ful glory since for everyone paying or free player the 10th chest really gives a true top reward.
because 6+1=7 RR, right nog you get 60% of the RR spell by doing only half the tourney points. this will then be again reduced to 27% which makes sense.
 

edeba

Well-Known Member
I don't get the stinginess either. Most events I've purchased to get more event buildings, and some of the better event buildings. The big concern is over revenue, so I don't understand why they can't figure out that there is a huge number of squares with potentially income buildings for upgrading and diamond players likely have more then they can upgrade with what we were led to believe our blueprints would be able to do.

With the non-diamond players does it make any difference at all? People play these games for YEARS without spending a dime so who cares if they get to upgrade a bunch of building and get more perks for free? They do nothing to the revenue streams, the diamond players are all about the revenue streams.

The way I see it, at best with what I see as a fair implementation based on what was promised and two chapters per year I can only earn about 40-50% of what I would like to upgrade through the tournament. I already have more magic buildings than I can earn blueprints. I have about 15 event buildings not counting the set buildings that I would like to keep and upgrade and to me, that's a new revenue stream. This proposal doesn't even give enough RR spells to upgrade the set buildings, let alone my older event buildings. The revenue streams exist and with a fair and reasonable implementation.

Serious rock brain thinking on the part of Inno. http://connectingdotsin1st.blogspot.com/2015/10/10-23-15-introducing-glassman-and-have.html

Furthermore I don't get the current stinginess with RR...with so many event buildings that we can get, I don't think it matters much if we have a city full of buildings from older events, or the newest ones.:confused:


Agreed, making BP convertable the 10th is a nice goal for everyone again. :)
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Have you surveyed players about the bigger picture of tons of KP from the tournament? Again, it is very short sighted to think of the 10 chests as only for the blueprint.
The KP from 10 chests is good, but I think KP in general is over-rated a bit. It takes 500 KP to upgrade a low level wonder, and that will bring you up from 117% to 118% bonus on such a wonder.
Woohoo.
That 500 KP is 10 weeks of doing 10 chests instead of 8.
Even if we assume a player does 5 extra provinces twice( to get 1660 instead of 1000 points) they gain another 25 KP personally each week on top of 50 from chests 9+10.
So 75 KP per week extra, about 4,000 KP a year.

I can tell you that I for one was far more excited about being able to upgrade 52 event buildings per year than I was about a handful of wonder levels.

I'm also certain that if there isn't more incentive than KP in the final chests that I will be looking to go down to 1,000 points per week since I can cater that sustainably while logging in for 3min per day which I starting to feel is all the time this game should get.
 
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edeba

Well-Known Member
That was my expectation as well... This proposal when you look at my 24 and 25 square event buildings means 10 buildings per year...

To me, there is no incentive to continue to with the chapters because that just kills the value of your event buildings. This broken promise is so long and slow in coming, I've a couple event buildings from chapter 9 that I've saved. Sheesh, with this proposal it will take me a year just for them... I need to edit my signature. I was premature in my thinking I would be anywhere near ready to move forward with chapter 14 by 2021 with this proposal...

I can tell you that I for one was far more excited about being able to upgrade 52 event buildings per year than I was about a handful of wonder levels.
 

Mykan

Well-Known Member
I am ok with a BP->RR conversion of 6, which brings us back to the original 11 a few weeks back.

This is stil way worse then a few weeks back (because our past RR gave 11 to not 6) tho but in today's light much better than the current solution.
And it's true new players have way more chapters but eventually they hit the same roadblock.
Not a bad concept rate for conversion. Keeps it from being too overpowered while making a big difference to RR collection. You can't compare the BP to 11 RR previously cause one it was 10 and two it had to do more for that conversion so it would have to be less than 10 now. They effectively become two separate features that may or may not be able to convert.

Even based on your figure of 6 I guarantee you some people will want more and some will never be satisfied with how many they might get.
 
I am confused by all the unhappiness among the players. I think Inno has basic core of a good solution here. All they need to add is ability to convert blue prints to RR (I would suggest a 1 to 6 ratio but other ratios would work).

Lets look at the problems the proposed solution resolves.
1. Giving RR spells in the earlier chests allows the smaller fellowships to participate in new tournament reward. It will encourage them to push for higher chests.
2. Keeping BP means people who purchased lots of building can continue to use Blue Prints to upgrade them.

The only unsolved problem is people who have saved up many BP expecting to be able to use them on event buildings. (I am in this group)
Hopefully someday (and it does not need to part of the current solution), a conversion ability will added