Discussion Release Notes version 0.17

[DeletedUser800]

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It so happens that I agree with the underlying issue, regarding non-resourced buildings, but my concerns are more philosophical. I think the quests should help the devs control the pacing, that part's fine with me, but leading folks astray, and requiring them to DO THINGS that are unwise, is very poor pedagogy. I would hope that the quest line gets tuned as follows:

• Build a boosted building
• Post some goods for sale (maybe somebody will buy them)
• Use some goods to buy something from the trader
• (OPTIONAL) Set up a NON-boosted manufacturing building,
  but make it quite clear that sometimes a bad choice is still the best choice.

I agree with your "content" part. I'd wished you hadn't posted the picture from the flame warriors. I am pretty sure there is a picture for a "white knight rescuing mods", too. But attacking each other with words/pics is futile.

Lets act civilly, all of us.

 

[DeletedUser]

+1 Thysae
+1 ddevil

But nobody answered my question

Will we have more information on the next servers ?

 

[DeletedUser118]

A german and an international server were added. Still more to come. I guess that's all there is for now.

 

[DeletedUser867]

• Well for someone who knows to read so much about everything
• I was talking about the dev's lack of understanding and disdain for the players
• they came at me in support of the dev's trying to make me wrong / look like a fool
• they acted as if they were clever in giving inconsequential replies without even once giving a proper reply
• that just shows even they were not aware of the reason behind it
• I think you did not read what has been said till now by me before showing your support for them
• I was only trying to prove my dissatisfaction
• Only the pictures were something some people would consider as rude
• just a case of losing my cool

If you want to avoid the ad hominem fallacy, then, you will examine all arguments on their own merits, regardless of who or what is making them, and regardless of your reasons for hating them or disliking them or finding them otherwise "unreliable" or "untrustworthy" or "offering Republican talking points" or "not worthy of consideration." If you really want to "score points" in a debate, you will stay on the level of argument, and avoid bickering about personalities.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/07/15/884552/-On-the-Ad-Hominem-Argument

What saddens me the most is when I have to wade through a sea of invective in order to pick out the concepts and suggestions. I've learned that I'll seldom find a pony in a pile of manure.

"I'm Pretty Unhappy." Is just the adult version of a temper tantrum.

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes, do i know everything ?

 

[DeletedUser205]

@Katwijk to me it doesn't sound very adult either to repeat all those wellknown muzzle arguments, which always are put out of dusty handbooks to denounce persistant critic.
That is very transparent in intentions and sure not the way to calm down the discussion as an adult behavior should be

 

[DeletedUser]

What saddens me the most is when I have to wade through a sea on invective, so pick out the suggestions and concepts that are occasionally quite valuable.

"I'm Pretty Unhappy." Is just the grown up version of a temper tantrum.

I was under the impression there were others too who were and still are quite unhappy with so many things and have expressed in this same thread ....So if you dont mind ... Please Stop attacking me personally with your intelligent comments ( I am trying my best to refrain myself from doing that same to you) .... if you have something to say on the topic at hand that everybody can understand Please do ... I have no interest in getting into an argument with some one who has nothing to do with the game development in anyway ...you are also player just like me and i prefer you to behave that way rather than acting as if you are on the dev's / mod's side .... If u approve of the change say so and if u dont just say that ... I think the Mod's and dev's are adult enough to handle any persistent critic and complainer than getting help from some player who wants to just prove to everybody on the forum his intelligence by giving snide comments to a particular player ... Hope this is the last of my message on this issue ...

thank you

regards

ddevil

 

[DeletedUser867]

• it doesn't sound very adult either to repeat all those well known muzzle arguments,
• which always are put out of dusty handbooks to denounce persistent critic.
• That is very transparent in intentions
• and sure not the way to calm down the discussion as an adult behavior should be

You undoubtedly realize that your argument is circular. You're attacking the attacker for attacking the attacker.

In any case, MY point is that dumping on the moderators doesn't make it easier to understand the point that's being made.

Here's my position.

• Well written quest chains are a very effective means of "training" folks on how to play our game efficiently.
• Building an unboosted manufacturing building is always a bad choice, even when it's your best choice.

 

[DeletedUser205]

I know, that there are a lot more dusty arguments

 

[DeletedUser629]

Let's have a civilized discussion then. Some players feel they're being treated as little children, some players feel we're not taking them seriously, both are not true. However, this feeling came from somewhere, so i'd like to know what caused it. Is it just the quest? Is it something else? I understand we haven't had many exciting updates and new features, but they will come. 4 months since the launch now and many bugs have been fixed, and some features requested by players have been implemented, like the trade notification and the building names when visiting other players. Not everything will go as fast as we'd like them to go, not every idea will be implemented, and not every solution will be satisfying, like the non-boosted manufactory quest. I'm not a fan of that quest as most of you know, but at least it isn't as bad as it used to be. I do believe that this quest should not be the reason for people to attack each other, the team, or the devs, so let's not do that anymore. I've also read that some players feel there's too much distance between them and us, so let's work on that. We appreciate every single player on this forum, you can be sure about that.

 

[DeletedUser205]

well @Goryn my answer to your question about where "this feeling" comes from.
I personally am disappointed about that starting more and more liveservers, although heavy bugs like the useless of scorceeses are not solved. The neighborhoodthing is getting worse these days and so on. On the other hand I can read more and more laconically answers to players who stick their fingers into these wounds.
I don't like to feel players treated as silly children and I don't think that Inno can be that proud of their product to act like this via their mods.

 

[DeletedUser]

You exactly met the points, Goryn.

This single quest around this special Quest is not really the reason for all that rumors here.

It is the summarized flak what here is argumented.
And many players, if not completely all, are very disappointed meanwhile, for many reasons.

All posts regarding this issues tell us, that lots of players never say a critical word, but the active forum members do this instead.
Because we all are working hard to bring this game to a successful state, we are tired in waiting for weeks and month until things are solved / implemented.

That some anger takes place is nothing to wonder about. More and more players are affected by this mood.

 

[DeletedUser]

Let's have a civilized discussion then. Some players feel they're being treated as little children, some players feel we're not taking them seriously, both are not true. However, this feeling came from somewhere, so i'd like to know what caused it. Is it just the quest? Is it something else? I understand we haven't had many exciting updates and new features, but they will come. 4 months since the launch now and many bugs have been fixed, and some features requested by players have been implemented, like the trade notification and the building names when visiting other players. Not everything will go as fast as we'd like them to go, not every idea will be implemented, and not every solution will be satisfying, like the non-boosted manufactory quest. I'm not a fan of that quest as most of you know, but at least it isn't as bad as it used to be. I do believe that this quest should not be the reason for people to attack each other, the team, or the devs, so let's not do that anymore. I've also read that some players feel there's too much distance between them and us, so let's work on that. We appreciate every single player on this forum, you can be sure about that.

This is a much better Moderator reply ...if i had received a similar reply yesterday I wouldn't have gone on with my rant... This moderator is accepting that its not a good solution thats been applied and he himself is not happy about it but still asking us to maintain order and move on ... I would have accepted that any day and done that if told in a similar fashion ... but that was not the case yesterday ...Anyways things had cooled down today actually until one player wanted to become the white knight for the mods and came down blazing on me for what had happened yesterday ... Anyways things atleast look settled now ...and I wouldn't want to get down more into it anymore ...As i already said a few posts back on this same thread I dont have the interest to give anymore suggestions or ideas or even report bugs as I feel it only makes us feel frustrated at the end of the day when the Inno Dev's just do what they think and feel is right for them and are not bothered about the player's interest ... thanks goryn for being atleast one Moderator who knows how to handle a situation ...

regards

ddevil

 

[DeletedUser]

+1 Goryn
+1 ddevil

very good spoken, thank you

 

[DeletedUser629]

well @Goryn my answer to your question about where "this feeling" comes from.
I personally am disappointed about that starting more and more liveservers, although heavy bugs like the useless of scorceeses are not solved. The neighborhoodthing is getting worse these days and so on. On the other hand I can read more and more laconically answers to players who stick their fingers into these wounds.
I don't like to feel players treated as silly children and I don't think that Inno can be that proud of their product to act like this via their mods.

The Special abilities not working is indeed something that needs to be solved, agreed. It's not just the sorceress by the way. The inactivity problem has been solved in a way some players don't like, however, because of it many players now have alot more active trading partners, so that's good 50% fee is still better than the wholesaler. It has never been our intention to treat people like silly children, i'm sorry if you feel we do.

You exactly met the points, Goryn.

This single quest around this special Quest is not really the reason for all that rumors here.

It is the summarized flak what here is argumented.
And many players, if not completely all, are very disappointed meanwhile, for many reasons.

All posts regarding this issues tell us, that lots of players never say a critical word, but the active forum members do this instead.
Because we all are working hard to bring this game to a successful state, we are tired in waiting for weeks and month until things are solved / implemented.

That some anger takes place is nothing to wonder about. More and more players are affected by this mood.

I totally understand the frustration of some players, and i have no problem with people letting their frustrations out, within the forum rules offcourse

This is a much better Moderator reply ...if i had received a similar reply yesterday I wouldn't have gone on with my rant... This moderator is accepting that its not a good solution thats been applied and he himself is not happy about it but still asking us to maintain order and move on ... I would have accepted that any day and done that if told in a similar fashion ... but that was not the case yesterday ...Anyways things had cooled down today actually until one player wanted to become the white knight for the mods and came down blazing on me for what had happened yesterday ... Anyways things atleast look settled now ...and I wouldn't want to get down more into it anymore ...As i already said a few posts back on this same thread I dont have the interest to give anymore suggestions or ideas or even report bugs as I feel it only makes us feel frustrated at the end of the day when the Inno Dev's just do what they think and feel is right for them and are not bothered about the player's interest ... thanks goryn for being atleast one Moderator who knows how to handle a situation ...

regards

ddevil

Well, let's just say yesterday was a bad day and start from scratch. We do appreciate all the input from players, and all the great ideas they've given us. Many have been forwarded, this is offcourse no guarantee they will be implemented, but some ideas have been implemented, and some ideas are still ''on hold'' The devs do listen to what players want, but they have their own schedule, which could mean that a 4 month old idea is suddenly implemented for example. It would be a shame if we don't get anymore ideas from you guys because you feel it's no use to do so.

 

[DeletedUser205]

@Goryn there are rumors, that the new tradingmates are only a bug or worse the result of a hack.
there is the fear, that a tradingmate I yesterday got tomorrow is away again because there are new players between me and this new tradingmate and therefore we are separated again (because of the mechanic of only 200 partners in a trader).
why - if there are that surprising new features or consequences of changes - are we not worth some explanations?
It's no fun to row through the consequences of bugs or failing mechanics in a beta and alltogether there is a bit lack of fun anyway.
That could perhaps compensated with better communication instead of statements in pr-sound

 

[DeletedUser800]

This is my very personal point of view, and i am very fine with everyone who disagrees (no irony, no sarcasm!):

From my pov there is two major features which need improvement fast, both somewhat related:

1. The actual neighborhood system is seriously flawed. We need a way to "come together". The deleting of inactives atm is no solution at all. I like not having to look at "dead" cities anymore, but this won't help me with trades* or neighborly help. And, as i learned, looking at empty city-spots is nearly as depressing as looking at "dead" cities.
2. We need more interaction between players in the game. Chat, friends, guilds. This is an online game, with only recently over 30k people on server. Alas, it feels like single player offline most of the time.

*) yes, trade got better. VERY! But we don't know the why. There has been speculation, but no official word from InnoGames. e.g. https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/awesome.2620/page-2#post-18112.

So, chances are that as soon as i get new neighbors, those will replace all those trading partners which i got lately => no solution.

Edit: what sorella said

 

[DeletedUser629]

@Goryn there are rumors, that the new tradingmates are only a bug or worse the result of a hack.
there is the frear, that a tradingmate I yesterday got tomorrow is away again because there are new players between me and this new tradingmate and therefore we are separated again (because of the mechanic of only 200 partners in a trader).
why - if there are that surprising new features or consequences of changes - are we not worth some explanations?
It's no fun to row through the consequences of bugs or failing mechanics in a beta and alltogether there is a bit lack of fun anyway.
That could perhaps compensated with better communication instead of statements in pr-sound

So better communication would help, that's good to know

 

[ophion]

As frustrated as we all are with the lack of issues being resolved...I have to say that the constant negativity I'm seeing in the forum lately can work against us over time.
We are all aware that the time taken to resolve our issues regarding inactive neighbours...and the replacement of them, lack of trades and loss of coins because of this, the ongoing quests demanding that we build useless buildings...and the many, many other issues that cause us to complain every day...are causing us to become more and more vocal in our frustrations.
However...we have to take on board the possible repercussions that these constant demands get sorted quickly...might backfire on us.
There is the possibility that this really great game...that we all loved at first...may end up getting dropped because of our constant negative comments.
They say that patience is a virtue...and I believe that this game is good enough for us to encourage the possibilities of what it can become...rather than always concentrate on the negativities.
I'm looking at it from both sides of the coin and agree with you all that our issues get heard...but also from the dev's side as to how much they can do in the few short months since the game was devised.
All I would say is that we continue with our demands for change...but not to expect them to happen in a matter of days or even weeks...just have the patience that the rewards might bring and let's support Elvenar...because if we lose it...it's going to be a sad day for us all.

 

[DeletedUser338]

Is there a possibility for a Q&A with the devs sometime soon?

I'd still like an answer to this question. If the devs are willing to answer some questions we can get a lot more of the answers we want than when we keep asking forum mods.
Part of keeping your playerbase interested is by giving them hints of what's to come. Right now I can't even get to know what's in the next update a day before it happens. But if I know there will be a big update in a month, I'll have something to look forward to and I'll keep playing with more enthusiasm.
And I've got many more questions that only the devs can answer.