Ranking points for Ancient Wonders

[DeletedUser118]

I agree on that. I don't really see an option for a real competition between these two ways of playing either. The paying players will always have some big advantage free players will never be able to gain up to.

 

[DeletedUser]

There are other ways. I know games (commercial mostly but also some free-to-play), where payable content was unlocking extra items, but available to get also by regular users. Only faster than them. Or having same attributes as possible to get through regular game, but with unique design. Simpler? Only with different and recognizable textures This way you were having something, other players aren't having, but you had no real advantage over them.

 

[DeletedUser867]

The paying players will always have some big advantage free players will never be able to gain up to.

1. It's entirely fair to regard Diamonds as a substitute for Time and Effort.
   It's just that the time and effort were at the office, rather than in Elvenar.
2. Folks who put in the most Time and Effort SHOULD "score well" in a game that's fair.

I'd even go so far as to say that if you're bad at Real Life, you're not going to do well in Elvenar, either. Good intentions don't forgive bad results, and folks who are comfortable with adapting their behavior to the current reality will do well regardless of the venue. The interesting wrinkle is that folks don't weigh "results" equally, so your ruler may not count for much when you're measuring my success.

 

[DeletedUser]

Introduction of the snail palace is a drastic change. Goddesses and Residences were previously a 50/50 proposition - you could be in the top 20 players with relatively few Goddesses, for example. Until recently I was ranked #1, and yet had fewer Goddesses than the #2 player in my world. There wasn't a direct correlation between spending and rank. Skill could make a significant difference in placement: On US1 there are top 20 players who have spent the relatively modest sum of 20 Gatekeepers, or 5 Dragons - a significant achievement.

Now on US1 we already have a player who plopped down 14 Snail Palaces at 3000 diamonds each. This allows him to double the efficiency of population and culture, allowing ample space now only to complete all the large T2 upgrades, but to add new buildings. He has an insurmountable lead of 15,000 points. Any player who buys a few Snail Palaces through Fairy will go to the top - it's that big an advantage.

I can understand spending $100 or even $200 on a game when that puts one in the competition with others. But those who are willing to "take spending to a whole new level", as Goryn said above, by spending 42,000 diamonds - well, they can have it! At that level, it's not a strategy game, it's just a biggest-spender game.

 

[DeletedUser]

Because game is designed with a flaw: extra content for a payment, unavailable for others and giving a lot more than regular content. If content was available for all players but for regular players a lot later and for a high cost, for me it wouldn't be a problem. Because all content is available for everyone and Diamond in such situation is substitute for time and effort which regular player would sacrifice to get something and of course without requirement restrictions (different/inaccessible yet era or so). In a lot of games even Premium content is available to regular player on special occasions like events. You gather event currency/items from event quests, you can then exchange it for subset of premium items or exclusive only for this event. But as you see Diamonds only buy time and effort. "Or you play, or you pay" and not "Only if you pay you can gain", which always point toward unbalance in big favor of paying users, who at some point have so big advantage compared to non-payers, even excellent skills are not-enough to compete with.

 

[DeletedUser651]

From my personal experience. Every free2play game i've played worked kind of like this. The big spenders had all the good stuff, and held the top ranking spots.

There was one game I played that wasn't like this. It was called Elvenar. Prior to the introduction of the snail palace, a player who put in enormous time and effort could hold a top ranking spot.

As this is the first time such a huge disadvantage has been foisted on non big spenders, I would really appreciate if the devs would be specifically asked about this. Did they intend to make this game impossible to succeed ranking-wise for the non diamond player or non snail palace owning player, or have they not realized what they have done? They often make changes to this game without realizing what will come of the changes. Only us, who play the game day in day out and analyze it to death can often see the inevitable results of changes.

Folks who put in the most Time and Effort SHOULD "score well" in a game that's fair.

I agree. However, that is no longer the case here. You can be on here 24/7 and never have a chance against someone who buys just one snail palace. That culture building is such a thumb on the scale and will greatly change the balance of this game forever. Every single player who buys that building will go ahead of all the non diamond players eventually. Think how far down the non diamond players will fall with no chance to ever get back up.

Are the devs aware of that? Is this intended? Or have they goofed? If they have goofed, could they please try to balance this back out. If time and effort cannot be rewarded, then not as much time and effort will be spent.

 

[DeletedUser519]

When a player can buy their way to top it renders the ranking system meaningless
I actually feel sorry for the players who are always obsessing over a ranking system that requires no skill to be #1
Its a great day when it finally hits home that the ranking has nothing to do with skill or effort
That you can still have a fully functioning city be a member of fellowship trade and interact with others daily without spending
The Diamonds can fix a lot of things in this game but they cant fix stupid
The devs are certainly aware of this they introduce these shiny baubles because they know that certain players will buy them in mass quantities to gain an edge
All I can say is thank you to those players for being so loose with their wallets I am sure innogames appreciate it

 

[DeletedUser629]

Inno does need to make money of course, that's not a big secret. The vast majority of players are non-paying customers playing a game for free. Elvenar is of course still in development, and we will see more options for non-paying customers to be more competitive. But even then, most players will be no match for the big spenders.

 

[DeletedUser651]

You bring up a fabulous point Andrew. By making the game so skill and strategy and effort are meaningless, there is now LESS reason to spend money.

Goryn, if most players wouldn't be a match for big spenders, that would be one thing, but the difference is that NO player can be a match for big spenders.

We have all suggested lots of ways for Inno to make money that would make them rich AND give us all a better game . They don't want to listen to any of it.

 

[DeletedUser]

@Goryn I know this is commercial project but why making gap between paying and non-paying players bigger and bigger with introduction of every new era? There should be balance between both types of players and currently I see chaos, lack of understanding, forcing own solutions and artificially extended game progress time by enormous increase of buildings time and/or costs.

 

[DeletedUser]

If you examine the fairy T2 buildings - the relatively enormous increase in required population - combined with the limited expansion release this race, what do you see? Factors that make snail palaces the most obvious solution.

Suddenly we need more population than any other Section release, suddenly we have half the new grids available for building population - but oh! wow look - miraculously there just happens to be a solution - Snail Palaces.

The design of this game isn't developing as a strategy game we can solve with our wits and time - it's becoming a game that designed to be solved with money.

I actually feel sorry for the players who are always obsessing over a ranking system that requires no skill to be #1
Its a great day when it finally hits home that the ranking has nothing to do with skill or effort
That you can still have a fully functioning city be a member of fellowship trade and interact with others daily without spending[/QUOT

No...no...yes?.

It did require a skill to rank higher. Rank did not automatically correlate to $ spent. Players jostled around the top 20 depending on their agility with spatial usage. (For example, I recently spent an entire day with another player - we worked to gain them another +5k points without spending a dime). I don't even want to admit how many days I spent trying to calculate how to gain 241 points to move up one step at the end of Dwarven...it was a valuable mental exercise, one I enjoyed.

Ranking is an optional way to play - not a mandatory one. It requires one specific skillset - the ability to maximize within a fixed set of parameters. Social play is equally enjoyable.

There's a cautionary tale here. In Elvenar, all the competition has been directed toward ranking. If it becomes pointless to compete against ranking (because only big spenders win)...and simultaneously we have to start competing against each other in tournaments...we will see a very different game environment.

 

[DeletedUser118]

Spending 3000 diamonds (20 Euros!) on one single building? Never gonna happen for me.

I wouldn't mind to see some changes made so ppl could become more successful without spending a fortune, but I doubt its ever going to happen.

 

[DeletedUser594]

Inno does need to make money of course, that's not a big secret. The vast majority of players are non-paying customers playing a game for free. Elvenar is of course still in development, and we will see more options for non-paying customers to be more competitive. But even then, most players will be no match for the big spenders.

No need to be greedy!! This explains all those look and leave inactive players in my map!!
I don't mind spending some money on a game I like, but this is just a bid excessive!!
In the old days one would go out and buy a game on DVD spending about 100 bucks and have it for live!
The Inno way is hundreds and hundreds of those bucks to play their games! We all like to be rich, but
this is plain out of this world!! And it looks to me money is saved on hiring good devs which doesn't look
Inno is about which should explain all those BUGs included in "Updates"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Waiting for Excuses!!!

 

[Muf-Muf]

We will certainly be forwarding the feedback regarding the premium buildings from the Fairy chapter, especially about the Snail Palace. We cannot guarantee changes of course, but we will at least make sure that your feedback gets heard.