Ranking points for Ancient Wonders

[DeletedUser762]

btw, i drive vw Polo, the favourite car of princess Diana. as you can see , the car doesn't give you a status. If you want to play more competitive games mb Foe is better for you, especially now they changed the ranking, so it shows how many fights you fight and how many goods you donate, GVG participation, basically shows a team effort etc. Here, we just do decorating.

 

[DeletedUser651]

Mistique, some folks care very much about rank. It is a source of pride for them. Others don't care at all. This is a very individual game and each person approaches it differently. Ranking is a whole lot of fun for some people. They see it as a challenge and like to take on that challenge. It is important to the business of Elvenar as a whole too. Without ranking, a lot of people wouldn't spend all they money they do that keeps this game going.

 

[DeletedUser762]

Mistique, some folks care very much about rank. It is a source of pride for them. Others don't care at all. This is a very individual game and each person approaches it differently. There is no reason to denigrate anyone who cares about score. Ranking is a whole lot of fun for some people. They see it as a challenge and like to take on that challenge. It is important to the business of Elvenar as a whole too. Without ranking, a lot of people wouldn't spend all they money they do that keeps this game going.

well mb they should play another game, oh i dunno, world of warcraft or something. it is so funny here, when ppl go on about ranking. really is ridiculous. this is really a non-competitive game, in no way it is competitive. it is very funny when somebody is so upset about decorating - building game. re-lax... this is not this sort of game. we do what we want to do in our city , this is the beauty of it. if you spend money to look better than others, i find it silly, because not a lot of people actually care. I found this girl, she made it so pretty in her city, she has built crystal manufacturies at various levels, and they look so colourful, really a good idea, gorgeous city, a lot better, then some that build it to suit some ranking, with boring stuff.

 

[DeletedUser629]

well mb they should play another game, oh i dunno, world of warcraft or something. it is so funny here, when ppl go on about ranking. really is ridiculous. this is really a non-competitive game, in no way it is competitive. it is very funny when somebody is so upset about decorating - building game. re-lax... this is not this sort of game. we do what we want to do in our city , this is the beauty of it. if you spend money to look better than others, i find it silly, because not a lot of people actually care. I found this girl, she made it so pretty in her city, she has built crystal manufacturies at various levels, and they look so colourful, really a good idea, gorgeous city, a lot better, then some that build it to suit some ranking, with boring stuff.

Elvenar is a competitive game, otherwise we would not have a ranking system. It will become even more competitive in the future. If you only like to make your city look pretty, that's fine, but a lot of players like to compete for best score. Each player plays the game differently, and each should be respected, and not ridiculed.

 

[DeletedUser762]

Goryn, Ok, you are right and I am wrong, some people want to get the 1st prize for the prized pumpkin or a decorated house, I got you, mb i have misunderstood the concept of the game. forget what I said.

 

[DeletedUser]

Competitive? Where? At some point paying with real money is only way of progressing in ranking. No money = you are falling. Even very active play cannot change this. That is why ranking is one big misunderstanding. It show skills to around 300 place. Later it show how much money player put into game

 

[DeletedUser651]

At some point paying with real money is only way of progressing in ranking.

Up until the dwarves you could be in the top 15 if you played every day and had been there since the day a world opened up. Then after the dwarves it was top 100 but only if you are an obsessive player. Now, I think with the fairies, we will see, but I am guessing you won't be able to hold onto a top 300 spot without money. I am ranked 70 on the US forum and I think I am about the number one or two non diamond player, but I fall in ranking every day. I will keep posting the ranking.

 

[DeletedUser]

Once we get further along with Faery, even the paying players will be split into two groups: Those with Snail Palaces and those without. In some ways, Palaces are the only way to move ahead with scoring. The new T2 manf's require sSOOOOO much population, it's simply impossible to upgrade them by upgrading residences or adding Goddesses.

 

[DeletedUser]

Conclusion:

Official statements were, as always, a little lukewarm, type: I've really no idea, but that enough ...

We never will know if (and if yes: when) Ancient Wonders will affect global ranking.

The thread has been sacrificed successfully, like a sick horse and can be closed.

 

[DeletedUser1075]

Up until the dwarves you could be in the top 15 if you played every day and had been there since the day a world opened up. Then after the dwarves it was top 100 but only if you are an obsessive player. Now, I think with the fairies, we will see, but I am guessing you won't be able to hold onto a top 300 spot without money. I am ranked 70 on the US forum and I think I am about the number one or two non diamond player, but I fall in ranking every day. I will keep posting the ranking.

I haven't spent any real money on diamonds yet and I'm doing okay. Yes, I will start to drop a bit soon as I won't get some of the upgraded buildings going until later than diamond players, but I'm not sure I'll drop that much. Let's say, jury is still out on this one.

Once we get further along with Faery, even the paying players will be split into two groups: Those with Snail Palaces and those without. In some ways, Palaces are the only way to move ahead with scoring. The new T2 manf's require sSOOOOO much population, it's simply impossible to upgrade them by upgrading residences or adding Goddesses.

Palaces? Sounds fantastic. I want a palace. Without spending diamonds of course.
Seriously though, I've noticed some of the population requirements for a few building upgrades (silk - wow), and I now have a mental block against doing the math to even see if they're possible. I'm quite capable of doing the math, just can't force myself to actually sit down and calculate the answer. lol. I do have plans for more housing though...

 

[DeletedUser651]

Grace it works out like this: the new snail palace comes with 2900 population along with 3200 culture. In comparison, a level 19 residence only has 550 population and the non diamond players don't get any population along with their cultural buildings. That means the diamond players will not have to waste space building so many houses and they will have all that population with which to gain a ton of points by upgrading tier 2 factories (that now provide 181 points per space)....and of course they will have room to make those upgrades.

In the US server it has happened already. The first person to figure this out and spend a LOT of money has vaulted to the top of the leaderboard and of course their city is filled with snail palaces. Now others will race to the top as well.

It is only a matter of time. As soon as anyone buys a snail palace they are ahead of non spenders and the non spenders have no ability to catch up. It would be the same if the spenders were getting extra expansions, you'd have no way to compete with them. And in a way, this is like that.

 

[DeletedUser1075]

Aha, I hadn't looked at that cultural building yet - I tend to ignore the diamond buildings.

You're right, the devs broke the game for non-diamond players. Here's how I crunched the numbers:

Assumptions:
1. The primary purpose for these buildings is population - the culture is a bonus advantage
2. Population is the single greatest limiting factor in this game. Since the houses take up the majority of the grid, a significant advantage here will be magnified exponentially throughout the leaderboard.

Calcs:
Population (ONLY) per square
And I can't format this better - sorry.

Pre-Dwarves No Diamonds With Diamonds
Houses 46.67 Fountain of Youth 58.34
Goddess of Fertility 56.67

Dwarves
Houses 58.75 No new advantage

Fairies
Houses 68.75 Snail Palace 96.67

Princess Anwen 102​

Basically, the population advantage is significant enough that it will not be possible to overcome through superior strategy. Even a few Palaces or the equivalent diamond spend in Princess Anwen squares will create such a disparate advantage that non-diamond players will not be able to compete.

I thought the diamond play was meant to give options and a slight advantage, but this makes it required for a competitive player.

I look forward to seeing whether/how the devs balance this out. It would be great if Muf-Muf or Gorwen could weigh in on whether there are plans to balance this, or if those of us who don’t use diamonds are SOL.

 

[DeletedUser651]

Grace, the devs DID just balance this out. They have just informed you exactly how it will be. They are being exceedingly clear. This game is now pay to win, period. Non diamond players will never again be able to compete in elvenar. You are correct. Don't be like that girl who hears the boyfriend say he never wants to get married and she ignores it thinking he didn't mean it. The devs have been crystal clear here. PAY or you cannot compete. Period.

But of course you can still build a city and tinker around it. You just can't compete.

Which is also why I said it will be really tough on fellowships. The people who don't pay will really hold others back. The non payers won't have as many factories upgraded and thus they can't produce the number of goods for being a useful trading partner. As this progresses, and the impact of this new change really comes into play, all of Elvenar will necessarily need to start separating into those who pay a fortune to play and those that don't. We are really separating the classes around here significantly.

Even if you WANT to be egalitarian as an archmage, you are choosing between two groups....those that are top payers and that need tens of thousands of goods for trading and that are harmed by those non payers who can't produce....and those that can't pay that but really want to stay and you'd love to keep them, but they can't support the fellowship.

Those are just the ways the economic forces will start to push. Whether you like them or not.

 

[DeletedUser]

Other words... Owners just started killing own project and try to get as many cash as possible before server down.

 

[DeletedUser1075]

Without disagreeing at all... I want to wait to see how this plays out.

Moving a city to all snail palaces for pop sounds like there would be a ton of room for other high-point buildings, but none of them would be particularly useful since you wouldn't be generating enough gold. While this won't stop some people, it will make this strategy less than attractive for many. So I'd like to see how it plays out longer term before I blow the whistle.

It's easy to say this unbalances the game, but diamonds haven't bought much of value in the past through buildings - so this is also overdue in some ways for the diamond players.

Again... probably right, but I'd still like to see the unintended consequences.

 

[DeletedUser629]

Elvenar is far from finished of course, and the game will get more opportunities for players to gain ranking points. With that being said, diamond players will always have an advantage, and some are willing to take spending to a whole new level.

 

[DeletedUser651]

diamond players will always have an advantage

They didn't used to have SUCH an overwhelming advantage that non diamond players didn't have a chance to compete.

 

[DeletedUser]

Look at upgrade costs in Faeries Era. T2 manufactories population costs are enormous. Elves Silk upgrade from 15 to 16 require 919 pop. If you have 3-4, multiply this accordingly. I have 4 of them, and 60 Residences 17lvl. Their upgrade can give me 4800 population at cost 2280 Culture, 41.100.000 Coins, 2.364.000 Tools, 51.000 Steel, 61.200 Scrolls, 75.000 Crystals and 34.000 Elixir. Many? Now you imagine this is enough to max out only 2 and from 15 to 16 in 3rd Silk Manufactories... Costs are enormous and probably many people will be forced to resign from already maxed (15lvl) one or more Silk manufactories, to handle this. I don't even mention costs of Residences upgrades. Owners probably were jumping to empty pool on head... Many times They don't changed size but building time increased twice (from 5h to almost 10h), Coins seven times (!) from 53k to 370k, Tools from 7k to 23k... and other Goods I don't mention, because it is not worth. And all the costs changed income from 1769/h to 1859/h. To compare, when Dwarven were introduced, Residences become one square smaller and them gets twice as much bigger income (180/h) from 1500/h to 1680/h Only population gain was smaller... Not 40 (Faeries) but only 20 (Dwarves). But hey... Buildings became smaller, so logically population shouldn't even increase

All this points to simple conclusions:
- players should have as many obstacles as possible to upgrade buildings,
- there are bigger chances that they buy diamonds to make something easier,
- enormous costs are to drain players from coins and tools,
- repeatable quests will be even more overused, but I suspect owners change them too and them became much less profitable,
- Faeries and later races AW will be more and more overpowered (Dwarven Mountain Halls aren't as shitty as Elvish AW), but getting runes for them will by real pain between the butts Again Diamonds will solve problem...

Of course there is more conclusions, but biggest from them is quite obvious: "You don't pay? You don't play!" More and more advanced you are, it will be more and more visible. You may play without money maybe to end of 4-5 era. Later at least 1 extra worker is greatly welcomed. Then extra expansions. At some point you realize that playing without diamonds is taking a lot of time and looking at ranking is making you angry, because even players that are 1-2 era behind you (!) are having more ranking points than you. Only difference is that they pay for game more than you. Rather not very optimistic view. And game started to look that way already. Bitter words, but look around you and try to say "That is not truth!". You probably cannot, because will find that kind of players.

 

[DeletedUser118]

What you think needs to be changed then? And as a person who works at a similiar job, wouldn't you agree that nowadays its common to have games like these where it's pay to win only in at least one or the other way?

 

[DeletedUser629]

From my personal experience. Every free2play game i've played worked kind of like this. The big spenders had all the good stuff, and held the top ranking spots. The only exception was that those games usually had an in-game option to win a few diamonds/gold/ whatever currency. Maybe Elvenar will get such an option in the future, but even then it will be very hard to compete with the big spenders.