Discussion New Spire of Eternity rewards!

[CrazyWizard]

I am a scrolls player, and I love my fairly sizable library set. Can't say it destroyed a game for me.

Guess you play on an "old" world, new worlds are really horrible to play atm. you just can't trade away your scrolls, and every fellowship member has x times the amount of scrolls compared to crystal and silk, you are living there like a beggar.

just some examples

I would suggest log into harandar and see the carnage for yourself, it's most likely way worse then my example.
New worlds show a much more disturbing image than old worlds as they are much more effected by this issue.

 

[CrazyWizard]

@CrazyWizard - are you reading only every second or third post? I also said THIS:

Sorry I do not always read every single post on every single forum I follow
I often just skim, otherwise I'll get nuts.

 

[Karvest]

just numbers:

Spoiler: our FS T2 auto production per 24h

crystal:	196 572
scrolls:	923 459
silk:	310 463

(assuming you collect spire set once a day and not shifting collection time earlier each day, which allows you to collect more often on average in a long run)

 

[Aeva]

it completely destroyed the game for scroll players

No, it did not. Example: I have a smaller city overhere with 3 scroll manufacturors since it is my boost and a fully equiped libraryset. No problems with scrolls, silk or chrystal.

 

[CrazyWizard]

No, it did not. Example: I have a smaller city overhere with 3 scroll manufacturors since it is my boost and a fully equiped libraryset. No problems with scrolls, silk or chrystal.

Beta is not a normal server,

Just try to play as a scroll player on dutch winyandor, US khelonaar or another young world from the post spire era.
It's unplayable as many players have some scroll production themselves.

It creates an inbalance where they just do not need (as many) scrolls.
On old worlds this effect is visible and not as bad as on young new worlds where is it very visible.

You just can't aquire the scrolls / silk you need. it's a battle of "who offers the best 3* rates" and then still you got bucketloads of trades that just do not get taken.

I send out 30 trades last week, I think i did see 1 of those taken but I am not even certain I have sold any.

 

[Deleted User - 89361]

With the Fire Phoenix being the most broken building in the game, I think it's perfect that players who started after the Easter events can evolve theirs. In my FS 5 players do not have the Fire Phoenix or have it incomplete, so they are jumping for joy with this update. The problem, as mentioned above, is that for those who have the Phoenixes at the maximum level this doesn't benefit them at all, they even took away the possibility of the Moonstone sets that at least can benefit everyone equally (and now that they ask for CCs in the FA they are even more valuable than before). It would be nice if they gave the option to choose what evolving building to spend that artifact on.
P.S. Please do not add the Moonstone set in the MA. With only 1 building in each recipe cycle, that would greatly decrease the chances of Expirable enhancing Buildings (or as we call them, 'dopings') appearing.

 

[UlyssesBlue]

I quite like the library set, and enjoy having the opportunity to upgrade my existing placed buildings by simply getting current chapter versions from the spire. I don't want to see it gone for good, but if we have the spire rewards changing every now and then such that it cycles between library set and artefacts and possibly also other rewards, I'd be ok with that. Different things are useful to different people, so cycling rewards means at some point everyone is going to have some rare rewards in the spire that are highly desirable to them.

As a separate matter, I also feel the over-abundance of scrolls needs to be addressed, preferably without removing the library set. Rebalancing it to instead produce boosted+1 would work well.

 

[Mykan]

This change is mostly useless for me, some coin/supply rains will be nice. But I appreciate the ability for players to max out phoenix's so some level of balance comes in for this area. Hopefully such balance is considered for other far more broken areas.

I really enjoy the spire set and it is great fun on new and old towns. However the goods imbalance it creates is significant, which appears to be more in the sentient era's. Poor bismuth players can't give the stuff away and there are now traders who intentional fleece these poor boosted players. As to new towns scrolls and dust towns struggle and I think only the generousity of large towns to small ones helps those get by more than they would otherwise.Its a bit sad when you have a town with say crystal, elixir boosts and you have more dust/scrolls than your boosted goods.

 

[Deleted User - 81672]

Will this change also hit live worlds?

 

[PaNonymeB]

While it is nice that players missing Phoenix artifacts will have another chance of getting it, there are many players that have their Phoenix fully evolved, with some artifacts to spare. For them, this change just strictly reduces useful prizes (unless you consider artifacts as disenchantment fodder).

There's actually another use for Phoenix artifacts - evolving another Phoenix. Unless you spent money on the Phoenix 2019 event you don't have all 3 phoenixes evolved. Indeed, Storm and Aureate are less useful than Fire, but still.

 

[Lovec Krys]

@PaNonymeB For us, who developed a Fire, the other two are usualy not worth the place, I have 10 artefacts and both my Aureate and Gold remain in inventory, and will remain there even if I have 100 artefacts.

 

[CrazyWizard]

@PaNonymeB For us, who developed a Fire, the other two are usualy not worth the place, I have 10 artefacts and both my Aureate and Gold remain in inventory, and will remain there even if I have 100 artefacts.

On of the other phoenixes is very interesting for FA players.

 

[little bee]

I love the fact that this stupid library is finally gone. Hopefully it will disappear on live as well and never return.
It may take a long time for the scrolls imbalance to be resolved, but at least it won't be getting any worse. And it will probably work faster for sentient goods.
I do not belive there will be a lack of CCs. Keep in mind that the library gives you 450 fragments per CC. Thus creating an overabundance of fragments and thereby the need for even more CCs. I expect that the fragment to CC ratio will be much better balanced without the set. And we might finally be able to appretiate fragments again.

I really like the fact that artifacts have been added. There will eventually need to be a solution for excess artifacts after we have all three birds maxed. But for now, that should be a tiny minority. And I dont see why getting unwanted artifacts for the other two birds should be worse than getting unwanted library parts.

However, with these changes INNO should really take a look at its RNG. My impression has allways been that the spire in particular tends to be quite streaky rather than true random. Now, a scaling RNG would be more appropriate.

 

[Karvest]

I do not belive there will be a lack of CCs. Keep in mind that the library gives you 450 fragments per CC. Thus creating an overabundance of fragments and thereby the need for even more CCs. I expect that the fragment to CC ratio will be much better balanced without the set. And we might finally be able to appretiate fragments again.

I don't mind the number of fragments in inventory, but still feel lack of CC sometimes even with 6 libraries placed. Those new players who won't be able to acquire this source of CC (or appropriate replacement like same set with other bonuses apart from CC) would be very limited in crafting and/or FA.

 

[Arthus]

With 8 library sets now on my main live account i get 106k scrolls per 21h of production.
In the city that produces silk as main resource, i have 2kk more scrolls than silk.

I give 100k scrolls for 90-80k others because no one wants this trash.

 

[SoggyShorts]

P.S. Please do not add the Moonstone set in the MA. With only 1 building in each recipe cycle, that would greatly decrease the chances of Expirable enhancing Buildings (or as we call them, 'dopings') appearing.

But what if it was done like the chess set or evolving bases so that once you craft the pieces the recipes are gone?
This at least gives players without a set a chance to get one.

This whole spire phoenix thing is great for giving players who don't have a chicken the chance to get one, but it immediately creates the problem of denying players who don't have a library the chance to get one of those.

 

[edeba]

Also... just on a personal note, so this isn't a complaint... I've spent the last 6 weeks trying to pick up a Moonstone Library to complete a set and I have failed, so I am personally really disappointed with this hitting right now. My city is too young to have a Phoenix, so there's that to look forward to, but I don't even know if I'll be able to build a Firebird up to anything meaningful if it will change again in 6 weeks.

I've been wanting for that period as well and didn't get.

 

[Arthus]

Question about rewards. Hypothetically, someone has all phoenixes at lvl 10 or close to 10.

This means that for 6 or even more weeks, he can get multiple artifacts he won't ever use because you won't enable him to get 2nd basic building of level 1?

Question number 2 - artifacts were about working in events. Spire is about chance for bonus chests and looting chance from chests.
I've had multiple spires without any other bonus chest than blue, and some lucky spires with more than 4 golden and 2 purple chests.
Currently i'm 100 days without winning a Genie (10% chance from last boss and 20% or something like that from purple).
Artifact will be 5% from last chest and 30% from purple which is very rare chest overall).

Have anyone in IG think about disbalance this rule of chance may bring?
Why not bringing fair spire currency to trade in the spire shop for rewards we actually want and need, instead of making it all about luck and chance? I remind you that law of some of European Union countries forbids game of chance/gacha/lootboxes games as hazardous for people's mental healths, leading to bankrupcy and death in many cases and overall EU regulations are in the making.

Question number 3 - the biggest disappointment in the spire were portal profits. There were many threads accepted in propositions on multiple servers and sent to the team, as we have over 1000+ portal profits in advanced chapters like chapter 17 in our equipment. Why are there still portal profits from big bosses after all those changes?

 

[CrazyWizard]

Question about rewards. Hypothetically, someone has all phoenixes at lvl 10 or close to 10.

This means that for 6 or even more weeks, he can get multiple artifacts he won't ever use because you won't enable him to get 2nd basic building of level 1?

It's a great opportunity for new players, since the impact of fire phoenix is so high it's not a bad idea to once in a while have ways to get one so we all are on the same playing field/

Question number 3 - the biggest disappointment in the spire were portal profits. There were many threads accepted in propositions on multiple servers and sent to the team, as we have over 1000+ portal profits in advanced chapters like chapter 17 in our equipment. Why are there still portal profits from big bosses after all those changes?

Dissapointment for who?
Me? sure, I hate getting those, but I am considered an and game player.

What about all the "other" players? you know the mayority, for them PP is awesome!
Why should the spire only cater towards end game players, that would the dumbest move ever.

 

[CrazyWizard]

But what if it was done like the chess set or evolving bases so that once you craft the pieces the recipes are gone?
This at least gives players without a set a chance to get one.

This whole spire phoenix thing is great for giving players who don't have a chicken the chance to get one, but it immediately creates the problem of denying players who don't have a library the chance to get one of those.

I still wish they jus "fix" the spire set instead of discontinuing it. discontinuation wont solve the issue any time soon it will take years to fix itself that way.

again I would prefer that the set stays but gets a new look, name and description to solve story issues and then gives bonus +1.

I know some people have cities build around them so they never have to trade for scrolls on the market but thats the whole issue. bonus +1 would solve that.
Discontinuing would solve noting as it does not remove all those spire sets already in game disrupting the market and restoration spells will keep those alive indefinitely. so it's all about waiting untill enough new players arive and spire set players quit to restore the balance but anyone could guess that takes way longer than is reasonable.

even with a "fix" to +1 it still takes quite some time for goods to normalise as many have 2-3 times more scrolls than there own goods even if that is not there bonus.

This was a PM I got on the US forums yesterday.

CrazyWizard - I just wanted to say I read your comments on scrolls on the beta forums/upcoming spire changes thread. I could not reply there as I do not have a Beta Account, and, I guess, my newly created forum account does not transfer to beta. Anyway.. I wanted to say I appreciate your comments there, and it truly has destroyed trading for scrolls-boosted. I am a newish-player (1st ever city Ch 7 - Ceravyn), and I don't even have scrolls-boost city I'm active in any longer, but what I do know:

• My cousin, who has since re-rolled to non-scrolls, would frequently tell me her scrolls trade would sit the longest (days, not hours). She also told me how she'd see non-scrolls boosted players in her tournament/spire-focused FS trying to trade scrolls in the tens of thousands.
• In my wonderful FS on Ceravyn, with an AM who clears trades daily, - It's estimated we, as a FS, may have a good 70-80M *more* scrolls than any other tier 2 good. The AM themselves say their scrolls outnumber other t2 goods 3:1 (they're not scrolls-boosted). Now, for a FS whose boosted scrolls production is minimal, according to elvenstats, that's quite a feat. We do achieve gold spire weekly, collectively.
• I get to the top of the spire weekly and have multiple library sets sitting in inventory. I placed two, for a short while a few weeks back, just as an experiment (down to one now) - I never had to place a single trade for scrolls in the two weeks I had both sets up. That's telling when I trade, daily, for every other good. I frankly don't see how others can say it hasn't destroyed the game - or at least the trading game for scrolls-boosted. I can only assume those that say it hasn't are in a FS that doesn't, collectively, play much spire and have very few library sets collectively. That, or they don't see a problem with excessive scrolls flooding the game economy.

So, for what it's worth (and I know it's not worth much), I very much agreed with you, and I thank you for posting your viewpoint. Happy upcoming New Year.

Karvest also posted some crazy numbers about his fellowship, and I know from speaking with other players and my "other" felloeship that the issue exists there as well.

We have also seen enough complaints on many forums about how troublesome the current set is.

Why not grab the bull by the horns, and FIX the issue, instead of dancing around the problem solving it a little bit but not really.
2-3 years for the problem to solve itself after discontinuation for a game makes no sense, thats half the age of this game.