Discussion Fellowship Adventures

[Jackluyt]

So there are a lot of different factors here to consider. Different players, different stakeholders, different needs and desires and we won't be able to please everybody. In the end I think it would make more sense to offer things which players can choose to skip themselves, than to not offer them at all and take away opportunities and game elements for players who would like to play them.

Thanks for this well-considered articulate explanation of the issues, seen from the company's side.

I personally am really enjoying the new-style Adventures since the quests got fixed - but there are many players who are still smarting over the way that the Adventures used to be: a lot of work, wrist falls off from clicking - and prizes that are not worth a lot.

The principal problem that ArchMages are having is that Fellowship Adventures, instead of being something that unifies a fellowship and makes it stronger, under the old system was having the opposite effect - and many good fellowships have been wrecked and fallen apart because of bickering over the FA's.

The new questing has repaired much of this, and even die-hard non-Adventurers are getting sucked in to the excitement in my two fellowships. The suggestion I would make is that InnoGames have a lot of lost ground to make up, in terms of lost goodwill caused by the bad quest system - and now would be the time to win back that goodwill by offering some stunning prizes, for the next few Adventures.

Please pass this suggestion to the designers, together with our congratulations on the way they have fixed the quests.

 

[DeletedUser2818]

And then there is a company goal to make some money as well, which is of course also stimulated by events. After all, players who are willing to spend some money are the ones making the whole free-to-play concept possible for the players who are not.

So there are a lot of different factors here to consider. Different players, different stakeholders, different needs and desires and we won't be able to please everybody. In the end I think it would make more sense to offer things which players can choose to skip themselves, than to not offer them at all and take away opportunities and game elements for players who would like to play them.

This is very cleverly (dare I say politically) put, but fails to take into consideration the fact that when many whales are dissatisfied and see their feedback constantly ignored, they'll revert back to being dolphins, or just disappear into the abyss altogether, if you catch my drift. More specifically, it fails to take into consideration that all whales have a breaking point, an impassable threshold beyond which they'll abandon a game, no matter how many grands (and hours) they sank into it. I'm being most sincere as I'm speaking from personal experience here.

 

[Dony]

More specifically, it fails to take into consideration that all whales have a breaking point, an impassable threshold beyond which they'll abandon a game, no matter how many grands (and hours) they sank into it.

Nobody can prevent that, its like this with any hobby in real life, overtime everythings get boring no matter what, if you think that any company can prevent that, then you should think more deeply about all reasons around that, not only obvious one, then you will realize its not possible. You cant prevent humans getting older.

 

[Marindor]

@Betrinus Of course, that's why we're asking for this feedback and compare this with what we see in our analytics and numbers as well. This feedback is very important to us to understand the reasoning behind player behaviour on different levels, so thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts

 

[DeletedUser2818]

Nobody can prevent that, its like this with any hobby in real life, overtime everythings get boring no matter what, if you think that any company can prevent that, then you should think more deeply about all reasons around that, not only obvious one, then you will realize its not possible. You cant prevent humans getting older.

That's most untrue according to my personal experience. If anything, my love for real life hobbies has only grown stronger, and my two personal favorites are quite expensive (skiing and shooting, I spend about 100x more in ski-passes and ammo than I do on video games, seeing as how a ski-pass costs about EUR 50 for a day with discounts for a season, and a box of 50 .45 ACP is no less than EUR 20). I've been skiing and shooting (and scuba-diving, to add to the expensive hobbies list) for well over a decade, and I don't see myself even considering quitting or diminishing my activity; quite the opposite. And why is that? Easily said: skiing and shooting do not become more predatory and demanding by design as time goes by. Sure, prices went up a bit for both ski-passes and ammo, but no new ways of pushing me towards "recurrent user spending" have been implemented, nor ways to make me feel as if I'm missing out if I don't go skiing or shooting one given day. As to people getting older... ski resorts and shooting ranges around here are swarming with people well over their 60s.

@Betrinus Of course, that's why we're asking for this feedback and compare this with what we see in our analytics and numbers as well. This feedback is very important to us to understand the reasoning behind player behaviour on different levels, so thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts

I hope I'm providing some food for thought, as someone who's well-aware of being a whale or at the very list a rather fat dolphin. I'm glad my feedback is taken into consideration.

 

[lika1961]

In my experience people either love or hate the FA. Same with tourney. Being part of a fellowship makes it more likely that I will do some of the ones I hate, but I don't feel pressurised to do more than I am comfortable with. It is true that I have avoided the kind of fellowships where you don't have free choice within the structure, so perhaps that colours my judgement.

The way events are now, you will always need small factories and workshops in your city to take part. If you don 't want those, you should not take part. Consider for a moment the end-chapter players who wait endlessly for the next chapter to arrive. Every event or FA brings a bit of relief from the boredom of endless waiting. The events are not perfect and, in my opinion, the new endless quest system is not as great as it first sounded. I simply stopped taking part when the "buy 15 KP" quest came around too often. Simple, because I have free choice. And possibly also because I have a huge inventory of almost every thing that can be won in any kind of event.

I will admit that running productions for the FA becomes intense if you have more than one city, but nothing gives the sense of achievement that a fellowship experiences when they do well. People have talked about sticking around or staying in an FS because of the friends they have made and I couldn't agree more. Much as some of my fellows are my friends, I will not jump into the fire because they are all doing it. I still have free choice.

Now if you will excuse me, I have to go and build more small factories and workshops because I will definitely be taking part in the FA

 

[DeletedUser2576]

We have ~50 People split in 2 GM, using Discord to communicate.
With an upcoming FA we swap members so GA Freaks are clustered in one Fellowship while the rest can chill.
Works pretty fine but i know it's a luxury most fellowships don't have.

 

[DeletedUser2948]

You can skip a challenge, event or tourny (very stupid if you do ) but you can't skip an FA. You would be letting down your fellow members who might need that stupid reward even if you don't need it.

Or because your fellow members really like playing FA's. And you don't want to let them down, 'cause thats what a fellowship is for.

 

[DeletedUser2948]

@Marindor : for me fellowships are not jut about styles of playing or fanaticism. It's about people you like to play with, chat with, it's about helping each other out. The fact that members have different styles, tastes and backgrounds is what makes it fun and interesting.

 

[Deleted User - 56274]

@Marindor
Part of it is sheer burnout, especially if you play on beta and a live server.
I know since I reactivated back in February there was the valentine event, an FA, a mini event, the carnival, another mini event, phoenix, mini event, summer solstice, mermaid mini event, FA, Summer Mermaid and now another FA.

Tourneys are almost obligatory to have enough relics to participate in events - especially now with event quests requiring CC, Vision Vapor or Spell Fragments with no alternative or ability to decline them.

Some of it may depend upon the chapter any given player is in and their play style. Burn out is very, very real.

On Beta, I do not participate in spire, because I simply do not have troops or goods and it is more to my benefit to participate in the Tournament to gain relics.

Quite honestly, I would much prefer IG development spend time fixing some of the intrinsic issues such as NH on browser (issue since before 1.0), the entire battle system and the fact that you cannot battle effectively on mobile since you have no idea of any terrain issues, in game mail and AW donations on mobile etc. than having a new event every 2 weeks.

 

[Buttrflwr]

@Marindor I am not going to post your questions and thoughts in a multi quote, but you say you are trying to understand why so many of us literally GROANED when we saw the message about the FA. I have always liked them, I like the spire, I can tolerate tourneys only because I am AM of a tourney driven FS , but MAN, we are TIRED. The word burnout has been used several times. You said that some players want the FA more often, I didn't read that anywhere, though I did see where one person said they liked them more than long events. I might have just missed those posts.

Think about it like this. You LOVE ice cream, and it is a once in awhile treat, so it increases your desire for it. Then, suddenly, you get ice cream daily, then, 3 times daily. Pretty soon, that ice cream is not so much a treat, and you might decide you want potato chips instead, if you get my meaning.
Crazy Wizard made the statement that he remembered the first events, etc etc, and how excited he was for them. I too remember those days. The events were a TREAT, and the FA was a TREAT. Now, not so much. And I know we can skip events, FA's, tourneys, etc., but that is not the point. When the MAJORITY of your player base is saying BURNOUT, PLEASE GIVE US A BREAK...perhaps you should listen.

No one makes me play the game the way I don't want to...except INNO. We can't turn the event questlines off, we can't turn the FA questlines off, we are pretty much forced to do them. Ok, maybe not forced, but I think/hope you get what I mean by this. Just give us a break, let us upgrade our city for a week or two without some new inundation of questlines. I LOVE LOVE LOVE the new bldgs from the mermaid event, and I understand I wouldn't have them without events, etc, but I am just TIRED now. I need a vacation from the game.

I hope this helps you understand better.

Peace!

 

[Buttrflwr]

@Marindor
Part of it is sheer burnout, especially if you play on beta and a live server.... Burn out is very, very real.

Quite honestly, I would much prefer IG development spend time fixing some of the intrinsic issues such as NH on browser (issue since before 1.0), the entire battle system and the fact that you cannot battle effectively on mobile since you have no idea of any terrain issues, in game mail and AW donations on mobile etc. than having a new event every 2 weeks.

INDEED!!!

 

[edeba]

I have personally always thought the competition part of the FA is simply too long. Competition can be a lot of fun, but to compete to win in the FA you have to tear your city apart and you will be in the pit for 4 days and that isn't fun at all. The new badges would at least make it be less of a grind doing the badges, but the point is that 4 days of the pit causes gross levels of burnout and genuine dislike. So in terms of a competition, I just don't find it fun, but it could be a lot of fun if it was half the time, or say 24 hours after the first team finished all three maps. I think the competition part and time to complete the event can and should be two different timers.

Then just playing to complete the paths isn't that interesting, it is not much pressure and you don't have to tear your city apart and the effort for the FA prizes with doing a single path is ok, but without competition, it lacks excitement.

And then there is the huge difference in what player want and are willing to do so if you are in a high performance FS, and aren't crazy about it, well, the FA is too long. Part of the reason I ended up leaving a FS was because I just wasn't interested in competing from the pit for 4 days, it was just so awful. It was lovely to just skip the FA,

I don't think skipping it is an option if you are in an active FS.

I think it takes work to put together a group of 25 people for the tournament, and it is impossible to get 25 like minded players for both the tournament AND the FA.

Hi guys,

Ok, so if you find the FA tiresome, not worth the effort, too demanding, not fun etc... why do you feel you have to participate? As we can read here, some players would like it more often, some players would like it less often. What's the problem with just skipping it if it doesn't fit your schedule or when you're not enjoying it? Is it because you're in a FS that is too demanding for you, forcing you to participate, or is there any other reason?

 

[Dony]

adding that redundant awesome reward window was necessary when claiming badges? as far as i remmember exact same window was removed from tournaments few weeks ago..

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes, please get rid of that Awesome window, it really slows things down.

 

[Arthus]

Hi guys,

It would be more helpful for us if you explained why you'd think it's too soon Problems around the quest cycling have now been resolved, so what's the problem for you to have an extra incentive to get some more rewards?

Because Fellowship adventure takes much effort, in live servers we had sleepless nights to win it. Rewards are not that great for the effort put into fighting for place 1-2-3, from place 4 down you can simply end 3 maps and stop fighting.

I've literally had headache setting 5 minute productions over and over again in our last in polish Felyndral which we won.
Fellowship behind us was 2nd all the time and in last hour they fell to 5th place because of shady and unfair tactics of fellowships behind.

After all that effort and tiredness we all fell exhausted and we all said "no more FA in next half year please". It takes the same absurd ammount of space for additional lvl 1 buildings as events, and doesn't give enough to compensate.

We want to have time to move on with basic game and chapters and we want chapter 15. Enough of this events, FA and event after event after event 2 days in between them.

Also, in FA the deciding factor is the ammount of space in town, which promotes "farming accounts" and deleting all buildings possible for FA, just to add lvl 1 workshops and manufactories. You should work to eliminate space as deciding factor in every event and adventure and promote activity instead of space in town and hundreds of buildings lvl 1.

 

[Biloutte91]

Marindor say:
Hi guys,
It would be more helpful for us if you explained why you'd think it's too soon Problems around the quest cycling have now been resolved, so what's the problem for you to have an extra incentive to get some more rewards?

one event, + one FA, + one event, + the spire ...... + one FA .... and you ask us what is the problem ?

so it would have been wiser to release chapter VX

 

[Lovec Krys]

Maybe this time if there are less participants, there won't be a Bottomless pit lag?
Like last FA, when on our live servers some fellowships experienced it (including ours, which was unable to insert badges into the pit for about half hour and there was at least one other unable to doing that for several hours during the last day).
(for several minutes the bottomless pit even dissapeared before renewing it's functionality).

 

[Arthus]

Marindor say:
Hi guys,
It would be more helpful for us if you explained why you'd think it's too soon Problems around the quest cycling have now been resolved, so what's the problem for you to have an extra incentive to get some more rewards?

one event, + one FA, + one event, + the spire ...... + one FA .... and you ask us what is the problem ?

so it would have been wiser to release chapter VX

It's hard to hear us if we say that everything is the problem but it's true that it is...

 

[DeletedUser2818]

Yes, please get rid of that Awesome window, it really slows things down.

Not to mention it sounds like the game is mocking you when you win useless stuff such as coin instants.