DeletedUser736
Guest
Exactly, at this point, I feel like peoples are asking Inno for a button they would have to click on to collect missing goods for free.
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Discussion [Discussion] Release Notes version 1.22
- Thread starter Muf-Muf
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Heymrdiedier
Well-Known Member
the thing you are pointing out is exactly why they are doing the change...
we are too far ahead, we scouted too far and are still scouting. So they made fighting harder. This leads to everyone negotiating, so they want us to stop on that aswell so they had to take actions so its a bit harder to buy it all off.
In my opinion this is a very logical step and one i expected allready a bit sooner to be honest.
SoggyShorts
Well-Known Member
5x3h + 1x9h is about 75% more goods than a player that logs in 2x a day (9h+9h)
Maybe for huge players, but it's the small guys that occasionally need the wholesaler.
They could still ramp up the goods you can buy at low chapters- like in my example above a chapter 3/4/5 might need to buy 500-1,000 goods from the wholesaler and for them it's basically impossible now. Sure, a good FS or neighbors can help, but not everyone has that.
DeletedUser283
Guest
what I wish to reply to here is your last sentence, @galoyal
I do not need the wholesaler at all, really
but I can use it to get more goods than needed for my city, in order to ease the market for my smaller fellows (and to balance my account, because I like balanced accounts);
I produce enough goods to negociate 2 encounters a day on the map + a few harder ones during tournaments, and fund my researches when needed;
one of my (big) fellows could reach more than 1M coins for a wholesaler trade already today, and this means that it will happen to him everyday from now on, and this is just plain stupid;
both him and I are somehow the "bankers" for the fellowship, we both maintain a hefty amount of goods in storage in order to absorb bumps in the market for our fellows : we take their offers and recoup on the market later on;
I understand the idea that developers may have about this change, but seeing the result from my city (or this guy's one) looks just plain ridiculous;
once again, I think we could all gain form some explanations from the designers about their original intent with this wholesaler thing, and not just the nice talk we get on Innogames TV, we need real stuff here, real life explanations, and directions on how we should play from now on;
most of us took advantage of what was available, without even "abusing" it - of course, it all depends on what people might encapsulate within this word, but from my point of view, I have just been dumping excess coins into something more useful until now.
the modification of the wholesaler might be logical, it might even make sense, but for now it is just very frustrating, and a frustrating game is not a good game.
well @Heymrdiedier I know that we have "been too far", but we did it because it was feasible !
we did not even have to try hard on this one, we just went on with the motions, and scouted and conqured and so on;
had we' known earlier that it was a bad move, we probably could have slowed down;
realising this way to late is where the error lies, and it is on the devs side; they made a game that could alllow for players to go too far, it is their fault, we are not guilty of anything, and we should not be punished;
another thing : depending on player activity and some conditions related to the tech tree or to the way goods are used, there are days (and this can be almost weeks at times) when the market is just dead for one resource;
this is when the wholesaler came handy, allowing us to fill the gaps;
at the moment, most advanced players are in the wooldelves chapter, producing refined stuff, and it is very hard to get basic goods;
on top of that, the notification list is so ridiculously short that if I place 5 trade offers and they get taken, I may just as well miss 5 players who gave help recently and I cannot return the favor;
and now we have to choose : get less goods for more coins and retun help, or place trade offers and not return help
glorious !
I can see now that the most useful AW is the blooming trader guild, and I am gonna up mine like crazy
Last edited by a moderator:
CrazyWizard
Well-Known Member
Maybe it would be wise to build a factory?
Serously if you are at the first/second page of the server and you can't afford to buy off provincies on the world map, something must be extremly wrong.
you should be swamped in that stuff.
lika1961
Well-Known Member
I think that is exactly what they are telling us. We keep getting stupid, unimportant changes and time is spent on ridiculous crap like turning off the fog. Why do we need fog when so many things are not working right? In the meantime the ridiculous "!" is still on the research bar. But clearly we just don't understand that we want fog more.
As I have said before, I use the wholesaler to get rid of excess coins and supplies. Only that. It does not encourage me to not trade - but even if it did - so what. Free choice, right?
The worst part is that no matter how outraged we are, nothing changes. We keep getting blocked around every corner and patronised with platitudes such as "we take your feedback seriously". No, Inno, you don't. If you did this latest ridiculous change to the wholesaler would not have happened.
Horanda
Active Member
The new Wholesaler is a perfect example of the statement 'we take your feedback seriously'.
The stated purpose of the Wholesaler is to allow a Player to dispose of excess Coin and Supplies or to gain a small amount of non-Boosted Goods with a large amount of Boosted Goods. The previous incarnation of the new Wholesaler did not allow a player to make a choice as to which Goods he could purchase with his excess. This was THE major drawback of that incarnation, which was fortunately removed before it went live.
This incarnation not only provides that choice, it appears to have a sliding scale for the initial offer, based on the Chapter you are in. This fills the bill for the stated reasons for the change, as well as responding to the major complaint. We can hardly say they didn't listen.
The stated purpose of the Wholesaler is to allow a Player to dispose of excess Coin and Supplies or to gain a small amount of non-Boosted Goods with a large amount of Boosted Goods. The previous incarnation of the new Wholesaler did not allow a player to make a choice as to which Goods he could purchase with his excess. This was THE major drawback of that incarnation, which was fortunately removed before it went live.
This incarnation not only provides that choice, it appears to have a sliding scale for the initial offer, based on the Chapter you are in. This fills the bill for the stated reasons for the change, as well as responding to the major complaint. We can hardly say they didn't listen.
SoggyShorts
Well-Known Member
Actually there were TWO major complaints.
#1 choice of what to buy - fixed
#2 the obscene price. 5:1 was already a pretty strong deterrent, 20:1 is gross. A lower level player in a pinch should be able to buy 1,000 marble for less than 25,000 planks.
Horanda
Active Member
A lower level player can get 1000 Marble for less than 4000 Planks by using the trade window, even on this server. It's even easier on live. This is not the primary purpose of the Wholesaler.
Complaints about the developers not making the game easier for lazy players or those who fail to plan their City budget properly are unwarranted and work against the overall value of the game.
Complaints about the developers not making the game easier for lazy players or those who fail to plan their City budget properly are unwarranted and work against the overall value of the game.
SoggyShorts
Well-Known Member
@Horanda
The portion of the trader that lets you exchange your boosted goods for another type of goods is now total garbage.
If you think that is a good thing, fine, but why not instead make that portion useful? Have a different good go "on sale" every 24 hours, so you can pick up a reasonable amount at a decent ratio?
At 5:1 it was almost always better to post a normal trade and wait , at 20:1 it's insane not to wait, or post your own trade at 19:1 and wait a couple minutes.
All I'm saying is, if a feature is so bad that no one in their right mind, even if desperate, will use it, shouldn't it be changed, or removed?
The portion of the trader that lets you exchange your boosted goods for another type of goods is now total garbage.
If you think that is a good thing, fine, but why not instead make that portion useful? Have a different good go "on sale" every 24 hours, so you can pick up a reasonable amount at a decent ratio?
At 5:1 it was almost always better to post a normal trade and wait , at 20:1 it's insane not to wait, or post your own trade at 19:1 and wait a couple minutes.
All I'm saying is, if a feature is so bad that no one in their right mind, even if desperate, will use it, shouldn't it be changed, or removed?
DeletedUser1548
Guest
I have big city. I am too far ahead. Login twice a day. Fight in Tournaments (auto + catering) and still overflow with goods. No Trader needed. Never. If my fellowship needs certain goods I clear the market from my neighbours' offers and I believe this is the way Inno wants us to play this game. Play with other players, not with the Trader.
Some time ago I started new city and I was able to exploit repeatable quests + Trader to the level of insanity. It should be changed. I know lots of people will scream&shout but at the moment it's all wrong.
I'm waiting impatiently to have repeatable quests gone. I mean it.
Some time ago I started new city and I was able to exploit repeatable quests + Trader to the level of insanity. It should be changed. I know lots of people will scream&shout but at the moment it's all wrong.
I'm waiting impatiently to have repeatable quests gone. I mean it.
Heymrdiedier
Well-Known Member
I have more small accounts then i have big accounts, but to be honest i never really depend on the wholesaleman. I occasionally buy something if i have too much money, altho usually i spend it on kp on the low level accounts. I will still buy from wholesalesman if its needed, just 1 time a day and different goods then instead of only wood for example. just 2 wholesalesman purchaces a day will get my coins down as well.
I agree, we have been too far and still are too far and its not our fault. In fact its not like they did something about that when they made fighting harder, but if its really an issue for the devs, they should just making scouting too expensive or take much longer till we are on track again. At the moment im too far ahead, and im still getting even further ahead... Even wholesaleman changes wont change that since you can produce much more goods then you can ever buy from wholesalesman.
I agree with that, as a low level player you have a way to turn your coins into hammer or visa versa with those quests. This is defenatly not how its supposed to be.Since the main quest asks you to build the magic academy very early and this is an utterly useless and huge building for small players, this also means i keep those exploitable quests for a very long time...
DeletedUser1657
Guest
While I don't like the 50% increase it is obciously still there after the last feedback to keep this as a deterrent from abuse/overuse. Basically i now get less goods from my excess coins. Would I like more? sure. Will it break my game? no
I play more towns then a sensible person should, I don't see why a person ever needs to rely on the trader. In a desperate pinch maybe but not rely on it. The only benefit of the "old" trader for a low level player is to abuse the repeatable quests with it, as @ag123 said "to the point of insanity". heck you have more non-boost goods you start trading for your boosted goods.
While sad to get less goods I will just adjust my approach. I will need to plan lots of "small bites of the cherry" now rather then hitting max and dumping a ton of coins. Easier said then done on some towns then others.
I play more towns then a sensible person should, I don't see why a person ever needs to rely on the trader. In a desperate pinch maybe but not rely on it. The only benefit of the "old" trader for a low level player is to abuse the repeatable quests with it, as @ag123 said "to the point of insanity". heck you have more non-boost goods you start trading for your boosted goods.
While sad to get less goods I will just adjust my approach. I will need to plan lots of "small bites of the cherry" now rather then hitting max and dumping a ton of coins. Easier said then done on some towns then others.
DeletedUser1877
Guest
Sadly, the new wholesaler will IMHO, serve to discourage new players. The trader lists a lot of 50K trades, but the new guy who wants to trade 50 units of boosted for 50 he needs to move forward can see his trade listed and untaken for 24 hours or longer. Not quite that bad on live servers, but still small trades seem to beneath the dignity of many players. We need the wholesaler to be the balance to that problem.
Dony
King of Bugs
what makes you not to send message to that player and discuss his offers and improve communication with another players rather then with your PC
DeletedUser1877
Guest
And what makes you decide I haven't tried that? The fact remains - the wholesaler is / was a convenience to the very large players, an easy way to use excess coins and goods, many have stated that. The fact still remains, trades for 50 units can remain listed for in excess of 24 hours, especially if the player is not in a FS. And finding a decent FS to take you early on is not easy either. So, I repeat - the wholesaler was vital to the newest players being able to get a decent start.
lika1961
Well-Known Member
There is always a way to justify a decision, whether it makes sense or not. If the current incarnation of the wholesaler is here to stay (which I don't doubt it is), can we please have an alternative to get rid of excess coins and supplies.
It seems that we now find ourselves in a position where we are manufacturing too much of those as well. Clearly another mistake on the part of advanced players that we are only finding out about now.
In case it is still not clear - some of us use the wholesaler to get rid of excess coins and supplies since there is no other way to do that. I know you can buy KP, but that still doesn't solve the supplies excess.
It seems that we now find ourselves in a position where we are manufacturing too much of those as well. Clearly another mistake on the part of advanced players that we are only finding out about now.
In case it is still not clear - some of us use the wholesaler to get rid of excess coins and supplies since there is no other way to do that. I know you can buy KP, but that still doesn't solve the supplies excess.
DeletedUser1502
Guest
I was the one who asked if this was a "bug". This version of the wholeseller/trader is the biggest rip off yet. You suggested trading with my neighbors/fellowship. That would be a good idea IF I had neighbors that still played OR didn't have the same boosted goods as me. I do what I can to play this game the way it was intended WITHOUT fighting (I cater only) which now makes my entering in tournaments extremely difficult. I needed a tier 1 good (unavailable through trades) the current amont is 325. cost is now @26o k. I'll NOT work to gain goods/coins/and supplies at slave labor prices. This just makes the game frustrating and no longer fun. If this is going to be the "new" change permanently, I think I will quit playing myself.
DeletedUser1877
Guest
Another voice who can't manage to get small simple trades.....
Real example: I am small, and have 4 boosted manufactories chugging away, making about 50 units / hour (I did say small). For over 24 hours I have had trades up to get small lots of my non-boosted products. Even so, I would need to puchase (at ridiculous expense) enough to make SIX Simple Trails (next quest) as no one takes up the small trades.
The Rich get richer and the Poor go away?
Real example: I am small, and have 4 boosted manufactories chugging away, making about 50 units / hour (I did say small). For over 24 hours I have had trades up to get small lots of my non-boosted products. Even so, I would need to puchase (at ridiculous expense) enough to make SIX Simple Trails (next quest) as no one takes up the small trades.
The Rich get richer and the Poor go away?
DeletedUser736
Guest
My current stock of non boosted goods :
Marble : 871k
Steel : 554k
Crystal : 290k
Scroll : 490 k
Elixir : 137k
Gems 301k
I constantly put trades up and pick up whatever I can to get non boosted good. I accept all trades unless my boosted goods drop under 100k, at which time I wait to produce more. All this stock was built pretty much without using the wholesaler at all.
I really think that peoples who use the wholesaler actually did build their cities with using the wholesaler in mind, and that's why it hits them so hard, because it is totally possible to play without even using it. Put some trades up. You will end up WAAAAY richer using the trader than using the wholesaler.
Marble : 871k
Steel : 554k
Crystal : 290k
Scroll : 490 k
Elixir : 137k
Gems 301k
I constantly put trades up and pick up whatever I can to get non boosted good. I accept all trades unless my boosted goods drop under 100k, at which time I wait to produce more. All this stock was built pretty much without using the wholesaler at all.
I really think that peoples who use the wholesaler actually did build their cities with using the wholesaler in mind, and that's why it hits them so hard, because it is totally possible to play without even using it. Put some trades up. You will end up WAAAAY richer using the trader than using the wholesaler.