SoggyShorts
Well-Known Member
Yup. It's the big swings that players won't like. Someone winning 25% of the time and someone winning 0% is going to make for an unloved system.
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Discussion New Spire of Eternity rewards!
- Thread starter Marindor
- Start date
CrazyWizard
Well-Known Member
yeah the issue is that you only have 1 chance a week, making the RNG pretty big.
The less opportunities you have the stronger the RNG is.
I got on my mini account the first premium building a few weeks ago. the average is 7 per year and I am playing it for more than a year now.
But a year and a half is only 76 opportunities, way to few to smooth out the RNG.
Imagine only 6 attempts even with a higher chance, the RNG will be strong
edeba
Well-Known Member
I was initially thinking great, I can finally finish leveling one of the birds, but the birds get polished before things that I've used an EE spell on and that is getting really annoying so I'm thinking of selling the aureate and storm and definitely not placing the owl and really looking to get away from these evolving buildings that can't be spelled with an EE, but are automatically polished through the neighborly help because of going by culture rather than spelled items first.
edeba
Well-Known Member
Aureate deleted. The feeding effect is utterly useless and prevents you from being able to use an EE spell on it, but it gets polished from NH before any item with less culture that is polished with an EE spell. It is a daily event seeing it polished with NH and EE spelled culture not polished.
Maillie
Well-Known Member
I have little interest in the Spire, solely because of the RNG. If it wasn't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all. A couple of weeks ago my main city found the Spire to be a little easier, so for the first time I went to the top. The one thing that I have enough of for a lifetime is Portal Profits. It seemed like almost every time I opened a chest it was something rather useless, like another Portal Profit. At the very top I finished and .... got a 20% Portal Profit. For me it doesn't matter what you put into the Spire, I'm going to get another Portal Profit. Don't believe me? Here's my great winnings so far today:
CrazyWizard
Well-Known Member
Don't look at what you do not want and get, look at what you want and get.
It's easy to get aggevated about something you do not want, but you get more.
Thge chance for a premium building is little with 10 and 5% per week, but you also get plenty regular diamonds especially if your reach the top.
Part of it is random, but a decent part of it is fixed (assuming your fellowship also reaches the same level of performance.
400-500 diamonds a weer is not "little" thats a quarter premium building a week.
Skillpowers
Well-Known Member
phoenix artifact from golden chest 3rd artifact in 3 towers now , can't wait till this hit the maingame , hopefully the phoenix artifact hits a rotation with the library and maybe beer artifacts in the future , would be nice to have a rotation of different rewards for new players.
SoggyShorts
Well-Known Member
100% support for beer.
Arthus
Well-Known Member
Lol.
Got 1 artifact from 3rd blue chest on floor 1.
Then beat big boss on floor 1. Got golden chest. From it got another artifact.
Opened reward for grand boss 1. Got another artifact.
5 fights = 3 artifacts. This is what i talked about. RNG.2 last spires went without anything, here 5 fights...
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SoggyShorts
Well-Known Member
At least those artifacts aren't for anything important like the most powerful building in the game...
Arthus
Well-Known Member
Which one u consider most powerful?
Brown bear? Well you know i had no fire phoenix yet so it's lvl 1 to 4 for me, +20% power not shabby
little bee
Well-Known Member
Unfortunatly there are quite a lot of examples of similar good or bad luck. This is why I suspect the RNG to be streaky rather than perfectly random. Unfortunately with the artifacts both finding too few and finding to many will be very frustrating. That is why I think that a scaling RNG would be more suitable here.
2 last spires went without anything, here 5 fights...
SoggyShorts
Well-Known Member
Sorry, was my attempt at sarcasm.
The Fire Chicken is the most powerful giving a better bonus than 5 wonders at level 30.
The brown bear might have had a chance at the top spot for some builds before troop production was tripled by splitting the queues, but I don't think there's any real comparison for most cities.
That's what makes relying on RNG for such a prize... less than ideal.
little bee
Well-Known Member
An RNG creates a sequence of random numbers. Howerver, true or physical RNG requires expensive hardware to measure some external factors, e.g. a Geiger counter to measure the radioactive decay of a nucleus. For this reason games always use an algorithmic or pseudorandom RNG, wich uses a predetermined algorithm on a hidden seed. As a consequence these RNGs are never truely random. When they are badly implemented they can lead to streaks or become predictable so that the players can manipulate them. There are also ways to scale an RNG. Rather than returning random numbers an outcome is made more likely based on how many times it was failed.
Implementing a good RNG is actually quite tricky. Here in the case of the spire I think the main goal should be to prevent streaks. That is why I want some sort of scaling RNG. I think, it would be less problematic if the numbers become predictable as long as they cannot be manipulated.
Maybe it would also be possible to implement some sort of hidden shuffle board for the spire:
For each (different) chest we take 20 prices corresponding perfectly to the indicated probability and shuffle them. Then each time you win this particular chest you draw one of the remaining prices. Only after every single price was drawn will 20 more prices be shuffled. That way all the numbers will even out after 20 tries. Some games like Tetris already use such a method.
Implementing a good RNG is actually quite tricky. Here in the case of the spire I think the main goal should be to prevent streaks. That is why I want some sort of scaling RNG. I think, it would be less problematic if the numbers become predictable as long as they cannot be manipulated.
Maybe it would also be possible to implement some sort of hidden shuffle board for the spire:
For each (different) chest we take 20 prices corresponding perfectly to the indicated probability and shuffle them. Then each time you win this particular chest you draw one of the remaining prices. Only after every single price was drawn will 20 more prices be shuffled. That way all the numbers will even out after 20 tries. Some games like Tetris already use such a method.
Pauly7
Well-Known Member
Sounds a bit like a contradiction to me.
This would be nice, but honestly it doesn't seem like the Inno techs are capable of it, as it would seem sensible to implement such a system in lots of different places and they never have. I suppose the RNG is indirectly scaled when we have 25 boxes to open in an event and each one taken away makes one of the other outcomes more likely to happen... It's definitely possible.
maxiqbert
Well-Known Member
well, computers aren't supposed to be random, right?
Deleted User - 81190
Guest
While all of the above is accurate, it is also a bit of a red herring. No one implements their own pseudorandom algorithms (outside of very, very specific cases, and online gaming is definitely not one of them). Modern PRNG algorithms, while indeed deterministic, are indistinguishable from the true random for all practical purposes, including passing statistical randomness tests. The same PRNG algorithms are used in variety of fields where having a good source of randomness is crucial (e.g. various simulations), and they are definitely good enough even in those cases.