Discussion [Discussion] Release Notes version 1.4 + Tournaments

[DeletedUser651]

You all do realize that by constantly saying that the MA isn't worth it because the quest offers better rewards, the only thing that will happen is that they will take that quest away from us to force us into building that awful building?

 

[DeletedUser]

You all do realize that by constantly saying that the MA isn't worth it because the quest offers better rewards, the only thing that will happen is that they will take that quest away from us to force us into building that awful building?

I wish they did, it's about time they changed/removed the exploitable quests. Unlimited coins and supplies from quests has been a serious problem for too long now and it would make the current spells a bit more interesting.

Regarding tournaments, I don't see why only the top 100 should get ranking points. It would be a lot better if everyone got points based on how many tournament fights they win / negotiate.

 

[DeletedUser629]

EDIT: to be very precise... On my main wold I have 9 x 19L Workshops and 12 x 1L Workshops. Guess which of those two groups produce more Supplies I tell you, that 6 are for quest with 100k coins for 6 x 3h production and 6 as 3 times for 13k Supplies quest. I have plenty of coins and Supplies at quite low overall cost, because I can fit those 2x2 in many gaps, where other buildings cannot fit.

Then the problem is not the academy, but the quest, isn't it?

 

[DeletedUser]

There is a circular, repeating pattern to the development of this game that is frankly getting to be a bit maddening.
Their Goal: Build a game for players with a heavy emphasis on those who score high as socializers
game mechanics: interaction over action (trade/Nh create interaction), cooperative over competetive play
game play: networking more valuable than self seeking
all good so far- the game is well designed to encourage interactive, cooperative, non-competetive (not 0-sum) type of play

But OOps! Neighborhoods are BROKEN and like a lead weight around the neck for a game so heavily slated toward a game of mutual interdependance
What's needed is an untethering of cities from broken neighborhoods..,that's probably a big deal as far as programming goes so I'm open to it taking time.

The problem is that the things that SHOULD make up for the deficeit or at least stabilize a city in a broken hood and firmly propel a city in haelthy hood are all underpowered--and I would say underpowered even if neighborhoods were great. The AW's and the Academy all except Mtn halls...pfffft...not much there frankly. The space and permanence of these buildings means they should be highly impactful.
I have the level 4 academy on Aren, I hate doing quests and try not to, and it's helping me bet through the fairy rebuild but frankly just barely- that's 4 open all steam ahead- It would not be of use to me with anything less than the four I have open.

The Bulwark was the worst building in the history of gaming. (hyperbole anyone?). I built it to level 4 before getting so frustrated working around it that decided to let the eyesore go, and I should never have built it in the first place. Each slot makes 24 less troops and I lose out on a few free stroops- nothing i couldn't make in less than hour. Why bother?

 

[DeletedUser]

so the new tournament has started and it will only last for 3 days and 23 h, how are we supposed to open the 6 levels without using diamonds??

Or are you going to tell us only diamonds spenders will have access to level 5 and 6?!?

 

[DeletedUser651]

What the ????????

Rebalancing? Are you people kidding? This went from the most fun and exciting thing to happen around here, to forget it, this is stupid impossible. I lost more troops in one tournament seven fight than I did in 10 whole provinces from last time. I will be out of troops in a few provinces.

You have rebalanced it way too far the other way.

It isn't fun. It isn't even worth fighting. You finally had me saying good things about this game, and then I feel like I got kicked in the teeth. So much for us having something to do. Sure...for about ten minutes.

Plus, everyone is still getting different rewards. What is going on with that?

Last week I spent hours and hours fighting and having the time of my life. This week...half an hour and I am done. You had something great going. If you needed to rebalance things, then rebalance the rewards, not the costs. Now all you have done is you have killed the ability to play.

 

[DeletedUser]

Then the problem is not the academy, but the quest, isn't it?

The problem is that Inno lured us all into the game under a specific expectation: we could progress without waiting or paying, if we were willing to devote many many hours to questing. So, some of us did - we spent time and money - and then Inno proceeded to make drastic modifications that change the nature of what we initially were led to believe about the game. And yes, we know that they informed us in the tiny little hard-to-find disclaimer that they could make any changes they wanted at any time...so we don't have any recourse.

But we do at least have public recourse. Inno allowed us to be able to progress via online play time - the only error, from their perspective, is that we weren't subject to the "wait or pay" game. Declinable quests were Inno's design - and one they clearly regret given that we were able to progress simply by spending time online.

All the propaganda terms used about quests are misdirection - there's no such thing as "unlimited resources". Anyone claiming that questing gives unlimited resources has clearly never done it for any length of time. It simply allows a player to accrue supplies and coins via hours and days and weeks of consistent "work". Is it faster than waiting? yes....

But, what's the difference between avoiding waiting via paying or via questing? Both are just ways to avoid waiting. And Inno is the entity who invented the Questing option - and shut it down after they got lots and lots of our money.

Yes, the odd thing is that many Questers were also Spenders. Apparently Inno hated the non-spending Questers so much they didn't mind alienating the paying ones, too.

 

[DeletedUser326]

Nah new tourney has bad Troop constallation - and i fear for Wood Relic Encounters ...

But how are we supposed to reach Stage 5/6 of each province? 4 Days are too short for that.

Why did you cut the rewards for the first 2 Encounters. Last Tournament they gave 6 and 4 KP per day now all only give 2.

 

[DeletedUser]

none of the bugs reported last week were fixed, the duration is too short to allow players to open level 5 and 6, and they just made catering/fighting harder. way to go inno!

if players were getting too many relics/kps, you should have lowered the rewards, maybe award 1 kp/1 relic instead, but keep the costs/difficulty down so ppl have some fun doing the tournament.

And fix the bugs!

 

[DeletedUser]

Marketing 101, guys. First you give it away cheap - you give away the good stuff at the lowest possible price to generate interest, create a demand.

Then you start testing to determine the best price point to get the desired $ return. This week, they've made it difficult to participate in the Tournament - clearly testing to see how many people got a taste of it last week and will pay to play this week. We'll see various reward / cost scenarios before they decide which strategy brings the desired income.

If you want to see higher rewards / lower catering costs....Inno needs to see poor results from this week's matrix. Convince your friends to skip this week's tournament. And next week's if necessary, until the "balancing" is acceptable to players. (or at least be united in the decision not to spend $ until they make the Tournament interesting and accessible).

 

[DeletedUser326]

I won't fight above Level 2. Ist too costly for the given reward.
On Level 3 i Need way more troops for 2 Relics then fighting regular provinces and only get 2 KP / Relics in return.
On top i have only 1 active neighbour fighting with me so we reach Milestone 1 at best which isnt worth anything.

 

[DeletedUser651]

The whole idea of this tournament thing is to give players something to do. To get them involved with their neighborhoods. To get them involved with their neighbors and to keep more players around. To keep people invested.

Now, you have "rebalanced" all those priorities right out of the game again. The fights are too hard now so that you can't get through your whole neighborhood. You can't help your neighbors because you can't afford to do all those fights to reach them. You will now be involved with fewer neighbors. People will be less invested not more. And all that time that people could have been fighting and negotiating and playing in general is now lessened again.

Plus, now we are losing so many troops and things are so costly that players will be slowed in their progress through the rest of the game. This is the opposite of making the game a little faster for players (as was said was one of the priorities).

Before, when fighting was easy, you gave players who hate fighting a chance to win. They could have learned how to fight and have a lot more fun. But that too is lost with this new "rebalance".

And if you simply rebalanced the rewards you lose none of the above.

 

[DeletedUser867]

The problem is that Inno lured us all into the game under a specific expectation: we could progress without waiting or paying, if we were willing to devote many many hours to questing. So, some of us did

Lured? Lured???

Finding a seam in the logic, a keyhole if you will, and abusing it (and your poor mouse button finger) to turn something frivolous into something dangerous and destabilizing, scarcely qualifies as "lured."

 

[DeletedUser]

Perhaps you can gain more supplies by doing repeatable quests - but if you don't do them and if you do tournaments, the MA is worth the space...

But in such case I have to rethink if overall pros and cons are good for me. At this moment I cannot say that. Why? Because Tournaments are in beta and are modified with every tournament, depending from just ended to tweak costs and making rebalance. Completely unstable solution. I cannot make assumptions for longer play when I know they may change this element any moment and MA is undestroyable building. I can build and destroy 1 level workshops any moment and put something in its place on any occasion. AM + Tournaments don't give me such option. If Tournaments will be badly rebalanced I am still with crappy, 5x5 big, unusable and only wasting my place MA.

That's a whole new topic. Feel free to tell me all about the reasons why they don't work in western Europe in the off-topic section of the forum.

Just ask in separate topic in Off-topic or on PM. Don't make mess here more than it is needed.

You all do realize that by constantly saying that the MA isn't worth it because the quest offers better rewards, the only thing that will happen is that they will take that quest away from us to force us into building that awful building?

I know that, but this element has to be better organized and modified, because it stinks

I wish they did, it's about time they changed/removed the exploitable quests. Unlimited coins and supplies from quests has been a serious problem for too long now and it would make the current spells a bit more interesting.

They aren't unlimited, but for sure they aren't well balanced. But this is not their fault. Quest system as a whole is looking like cutted-off from different game, pasted here and is simply not matching well. It should be tweaked, rearranged. Currently however progress in game is affected by this corrupted system and to "balance" it, they insanely increased costs of almost everything, which caused situation many players is hitting wall.

Then the problem is not the academy, but the quest, isn't it?

You again don't look deeper. Overusing quest system is only result of many others flaws. This game problems are like iceberg. Only part of them are visible. Rest is hidden under surface and only longer analysis can point them. That is why old players can point them, but younger not or see only 2-3 elements of much longer chain.

interaction over action (trade/Nh create interaction), cooperative over competetive play
game play: networking more valuable than self seeking

all good so far- the game is well designed to encourage interactive, cooperative, non-competetive (not 0-sum) type of play

So where are those cooperative elements? For me Tournaments can be first cooperative element in this game Brotherhoods? Where they reward cooperation? Where are brotherhood tasks/quests? Where are elements needing cooperation between neighbors or people in brotherhood? They don't exists at all. Maybe ranking of brotherhoods? It is same way affected by payments like individual ranking. Not worth mentioning in this context.

What's needed is an untethering of cities from broken neighborhoods..,that's probably a big deal as far as programming goes so I'm open to it taking time.

But they had a lot of time. Problem is known from January... 2015 And it could be recognized even at project phase, long before implementation! So why this happened? That is easy answer and mentioned by me dozens of times here. Project is badly managed. It is having potential, but wrong decisions are making game unplayable and awful. Instead of working with players to enhance game, they fight with them, treat as enemies and do a lot of things harming community. I don't hold grudge against @Goryn, @Muf-Muf or any Team Member. On my server I cooperate with them often. But I am being tired of constant fights with stupid owners ideas, who knows only "cheated" version of game, with unlimited resources, instant building, endless diamonds, full neighborhood and so on. They know and see only this part of game they want to know. But elements aren't working well, they don't match in many situations. As a whole it looks like project is too big for too small team and thus they cannot handle it properly. Everyone working for years in IT industry see that. I don't have to be in team or in Inno. I look at product, how processes are working and see through them. It comes with practice, not from books or as theory. But to gain this experience you have to work in more than one or two companies and be sometimes fired or resign on its own. Other way you don't evolve, don't progress.

The AW's and the Academy all except Mtn halls...pfffft...not much there frankly. The space and permanence of these buildings means they should be highly impactful.

They should be and maybe in future it will be, but making this building mandatory isn't solution. People don't like being forced to anything. They will resist only because they are forced to that. This is human nature. People have to be attracted to something, not forced to. For now MA doesn't give us nothing except few long-time-producing and relic-consuming weak spells not worthy to being made. Spells should be stronger, even if their price will be higher.

 

[DeletedUser]

They aren't unlimited, but for sure they aren't well balanced. But this is not their fault. Quest system as a whole is looking like cutted-off from different game, pasted here and is simply not matching well. It should be tweaked, rearranged. Currently however progress in game is affected by this corrupted system and to "balance" it, they insanely increased costs of almost everything, which caused situation many players is hitting wall.

I'm not very far in my Beta city so perhaps the quests in Beta have been changed since last update, but on the NL server I mainly play I can still get unlimited coins and supplies from the quests by repeating the 'collect XXX ammount of goods' quests using trades. It's a serious exploit that should've been fixed ages ago. It's easy enough, just change 'collect XXX goods' to 'produce XXX goods' and it's done. No more unlimited coins and supplies.

 

[DeletedUser1278]

so the new tournament has started and it will only last for 3 days and 23 h, how are we supposed to open the 6 levels without using diamonds??

Or are you going to tell us only diamonds spenders will have access to level 5 and 6?!?

The whole idea of this tournament thing is to give players something to do. To get them involved with their neighborhoods. To get them involved with their neighbors and to keep more players around. To keep people invested.

Now, you have "rebalanced" all those priorities right out of the game again. The fights are too hard now so that you can't get through your whole neighborhood. You can't help your neighbors because you can't afford to do all those fights to reach them. You will now be involved with fewer neighbors. People will be less invested not more. And all that time that people could have been fighting and negotiating and playing in general is now lessened again.

Plus, now we are losing so many troops and things are so costly that players will be slowed in their progress through the rest of the game. This is the opposite of making the game a little faster for players (as was said was one of the priorities).

Before, when fighting was easy, you gave players who hate fighting a chance to win. They could have learned how to fight and have a lot more fun. But that too is lost with this new "rebalance".

And if you simply rebalanced the rewards you lose none of the above.

Nah new tourney has bad Troop constallation - and i fear for Wood Relic Encounters ...

But how are we supposed to reach Stage 5/6 of each province? 4 Days are too short for that.

Why did you cut the rewards for the first 2 Encounters. Last Tournament they gave 6 and 4 KP per day now all only give 2.

Did you suspect something else from them. They only want money money money they smelt it now its out of controll
you cant reach 5 or 6 without paying so again its diamonds diamonds diamonds
There making this game a joke and when my bs is really falling down.
Then i will start my next project to . and overflow the server with goods!! And help them destroy it
And goryn IM watching the bigger picture you take a chair and wait for it when it comes it will be like a train

 

[DeletedUser1278]

Marketing 101, guys. First you give it away cheap - you give away the good stuff at the lowest possible price to generate interest, create a demand.

Then you start testing to determine the best price point to get the desired $ return. This week, they've made it difficult to participate in the Tournament - clearly testing to see how many people got a taste of it last week and will pay to play this week. We'll see various reward / cost scenarios before they decide which strategy brings the desired income.

If you want to see higher rewards / lower catering costs....Inno needs to see poor results from this week's matrix. Convince your friends to skip this week's tournament. And next week's if necessary, until the "balancing" is acceptable to players. (or at least be united in the decision not to spend $ until they make the Tournament interesting and accessible).

yes it is last time i did 11 now 1 and on the live server dont even wil i think the goal to get ruins is closed so a wast of time// ahh you get also kp nice what can i do with that put it in my wonder buildings .

They trying to lure players into putting diamonds in there thats the hole idea and really the most stupid thing is

If you can play it with your bsmaybe it can be nice now why should i help my neigbours i cant talk with them only with mail . so there is no connection
And what about the people who dont have neighbours
Great thinking how many ours they spend creating it it started the first of april maybe
Because it looks like a joke.

 

[DeletedUser]

They should have waited with the re-balancing until after the first 3 rounds to give everyone extra relics for their tier 1 bonus good at the same prices. Now only the once with marble have benefited and got there bonus to 700% the easy/cheap way while the rest of us now has to pay very, very, very much more to get a few extra relics. I doubt anyone will get to 700% bonus for steel this round.

 

[DeletedUser]

I can still get unlimited coins and supplies from the quests by repeating the 'collect XXX ammount of goods' quests using trades. It's a serious exploit that should've been fixed ages ago. I

Boko - so you like the only two other options - Wait or Pay? If Inno offered another alternative - where a player could progress without extensive waiting or paying - I'd love to have that option. Until then, Questing isn't "exploitation" - it's escape from Inno's exploitative marketing strategy.

Lured? Lured???

"To lead someone into doing something, frequently by use of a reward". First premise: If the Inno developers claim that they didn't know how Quests would be used, then they're just plain stupid. It was a simple and obvious strategy. You frequently state what a wonderful group they are, so surely you don't think that many of your fellow lowly players outsmarted them somehow?

So, if they knew how declinable quests could / would be utilized, and yet they 1) introduced them 2)kept them through the Beta-only phase 3) introduced them into general play - we have a clear attempt to gain new players under false pretenses. Alternately, if the developers weren't as good as you think they are - and they devised this declinable Quest with unintended loopholes - then they should have made a very early firm correction to avoid misleading incoming players. During most of 2015, players entered the game under the premise that there were 3 methods of progressing past the inherent delays: wait, pay, Quest. Inno made no announcements, no clarification of intent - they made no effort to inform incoming players that the quest method would ultimately be discontinued.

This all qualified as "luring". When I began playing in July, I was led into continuing (and spending lots of money), by use of the Quest reward. By July, Inno should have already decided whether or not to discontinue questing. The fact that they continued to allow it in the game, and later begin gradual reductions in its effectiveness, would indicate that they did so in order to 1) keep new players entering and 2) avoid losing existing players. When you market to players, giving them expectations which you already know you're not going to meet - this is "luring' by definition.

Every marketing strategy employed "luring" - it's always a strategy to aim to capture finite disposable income. The negative aspect of this with regard to Elvenar is that, with such anattractive product, why resort to frustrating players into spending? We'd be happy to spend if they'd offer options we'd like to have as add-ons.

 

[DeletedUser]

They should have waited with the re-balancing until after the first 3 rounds to give everyone extra relics for their tier 1 bonus good at the same prices. Now only the once with marble have benefited and got there bonus to 700% the easy/cheap way while the rest of us now has to pay very, very, very much more to get a few extra relics. I doubt anyone will get to 700% bonus for steel this round.

They could be counting on this to push players to spend more?