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New Game Features Wonder Phoenix

Discussion in 'Archive: Ideas and Suggestions' started by soleil, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. soleil

    soleil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2019
    With all of our wonderful wonders, and since we're on a Phoenix kick, I'd like to suggest a phoenix for wonders.
    The Royal Amethyst Phoenix - The Royal Amethyst Phoenix is the guardian of all wonders in your city. (and it doesn't look like a duck)
    purplephoenix.JPG
    Some ideas of what it could do:

    Evolving the Phoenix - determines how many benefits we can use at once
    Evolving the Wonder - Lowers wonder costs: KP, Relics and goods (Maybe it takes 5 artifacts to get the maximum benefit of reducing kps, relics and goods - 1 artifact reduces it by 10%, 2 artifacts 20% etc)


    Suggested by Hugs: That evolving the wonders doesn't reduce the ranking points. Points are still based on the original amount of kps that were needed.

    ***************************************************************************************************
    Feeding
    Perhaps give extra temporary boosts to wonders depending on which one you would like to boost. This would be feeding.

    Examples: (
    These are just ideas of what each wonder could do and how pet food could affect them)
    Tome of Secrets: 1 extra KP or boost to supplies when scouting (New Benefit: gives 1 pet food every 24 hours) (New Benefit: Produces 1 RR spell every 7 days) (New Benefit: Allows for more than one province to be scouted)
    Needles of the Tempest: Temporarily Speeds up Barracks
    Endless Excavation: Extra Supplies or Extra relics when finishing a province or (new benefit - speed up builder 3 times) (New benefit - All workshop collections count as 2 collects versus 1)
    Golden Abyss: Extra Gold when collecting (New Benefit - Gives residences an extra 10 population every 2 levels)
    Martial Monastery: Extra culture when needed for an event or (new benefit - gives units a bubble for 2 rounds)
    Crystal Lighthouse: Temporarily increases spell for neighborly help (new Benefit: Changes all boosted goods production to 1 hour productions) (new Benefit - with pet food increase chest to 10)
    Thrones of the High Men: Temp boost to score in Tournaments or extra culture for events
    Watchtower Ruins: Temp boost to Neighborly help or extra culture for events (New Benefit: Temporarily allows your city to look like the opposite race elf to human, human to elf)
    Dwarven Bulwark: Temp Increase Training Size when training units (New Benefit - gives 1 extra slot in barracks for training up to 9 - pet food increases it by 1)
    Mountain Halls: Temporarily Increase Population for events when more population is needed (New Benefit - all each individual collect on boosted goods count as 2-pet food increases it by 1)
    *********************************************************************************************************
    Prosperity Towers: Temporarily Increases supplies every 3 hours (New benefit - something with the magic academy-give additional Vision Vapor)
    Blooming Trader: (New Benefit - temp change all guest race factories to 1 hour productions)
    *********************************************************************************************************
    Heroes Forge: (New Benefit - temporarily allows your orcs to dance while in battle) (New Benefit - Increase squad from 5 to 6,7,8,9- pet food increases it by 1 temporarily)
    Shrine of Shrewdy Shroom: (New Benefit - temporarily allows your light ranged to take 2 shots while in battle)
    *********************************************************************************************************
    Enars Embassy: Extra Broken Shards or Extra Mana when scouting
    Flying Academy: (New Benefit: allows mages to move extra spaces in battle)
    *********************************************************************************************************
    Maze of the Dark Matter: (New Benefit: Becomes a light based wonder changing in shape and color increasing mana for all mana producing buildings)
    Dragon Abbey: Extra Mana or a New Benefit: Gives Mages a higher intiative
    *********************************************************************************************************
    Temple of the Toads: Temporarily Increases Heavy Ranged Production
    Elvenar Trade Center: (New Benefit: Becomes a trader to trade supply or gold instants with Neighbors for gold or goods)
    *********************************************************************************************************
    Sunset Towers: Temp Increase Divine Seeds (New Benefit - Temporarily allows your units to wear sunglasses in battle)
    Victory Springs: Temp Increase Speed of training grounds (oops better build mine again)
    *********************************************************************************************************
    Pyramid of Purification: (New Benefit: Temporarily gives Heavy Melee a higher initiative)
    Lighthouse of Good Neighborhood: (New Benefit: 1 click to visit all neighbors builder huts or culture)
    *********************************************************************************************************
    TimeWarp: (New Benefit: Demolish your whole city and start over at chapter 1)
    Simia Sapiens
    *********************************************************************************************************
    Example of what the Phoenix interface could look like and how one feeds it.
    amethystinterface2.JPG
    The interface would show all of your wonders, the user would select the radio button of the benefit they would want to use and then click the feed button. This would activate the benefit for however long inno decides. For example: selecting all workshops count as 2 collects might last 8 hours with one feeding.
    Notes tab suggested by Hugs and Missions by Hugs.

    Acquiring the Phoenix
    1. Event
    2. Suggested by Hugs: Gift from the spire, researched after building Magic Academy-excellent suggestion

    48 Hour Rewards
    Maybe this one would be better to give ancient wonder instants, runes or even relics.

    Miscellaneous
    Perhaps there are additional benefits depending on how many times the Amethyst phoenix is fed. Not sure what this could be I'm just adding as much text as I can to this post.
    1. It could be like feats of strength - Amethyst phoenix fed 10 x's receive a cc, feed it 25 times receive a beer, feed it 50 times - 1 free upgrade to a wonder and so on.
    2. Suggested by Hugs: It cannot be demolished, once learned or acquired
    3. Suggestion by Hugs: Sits on the outskirts of your city. (Perched high on the mountains and with a watchful eye - guarding your city).
    4. Maybe another area where we can view our aw instants inventory


    Pros
    Would help many new players and lower chapter players get their wonders up and running
    Would help veteran players upgrade their wonders a little faster
    Help in tournaments with extra units or goods, or more power, extra supplies, relics when finishing provinces etc.
    It would be a gorgeous addition to our cities
    Different quests for events
    Unique Game play
    Possibly help with the grind of fellowship adventures
    Possibly give the devs more reason to add more and different benefits to each wonder. wonders take up a lot of real estate and most only give 2 benefits.
    A new user interface might take some time to show all wonders and which benefit the pet food would affect.
    With a little vision, this could turn into its own activity tower much like the Spire. Testing the prowess of our amethyst phoenix with strategy and different paths to take.

    Cons
    Space maybe
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
  2. Heymrdiedier

    Heymrdiedier Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2016
    i don't think the extra effect to wonder will happen, just like i think the wonders will never go higher level then they can reach now.
    80% reduction on some things is high, but if they can be boosted, then you could get maybe 100% reduction or even more, so the devs wont allow that. I'm pretty sure the 80% boosts we have now is the absolute max
     
  3. soleil

    soleil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2019
    @Golden Awaken My example above reducing the amount of kps on a level 3 golden abyss from 250 to 75. That's 175 kps saved. There is a point wonders won't need to be upgraded. My other thread is about what new thing can we do with those 175 kps we just saved. I hope this makes more sense to you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  4. Hugs

    Hugs Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Nice phoenix, and a lot of interesting and creative ideas :)
    I suggest it is not an event bound thing to be gotten, but either something you get in the Spire, or maybe even better, something that you reasearch and build and cannot sell again, like the Barracks, after you have discovered and built the Magic Academy.
    I have a hard time believing that it will feel fair to reduce the amount of kp needed to upgrade an ancient wonder from say 250 to 75... - but, that does not mean that it needs to be done that way... - maybe feeding the phoenix will release say 5-20 kp directly into the ancient wonder of your choice? Since the amount of kp you put into an ancient wonder is equal to the amount of ranking points you get from upgrading the wonder, it might be another way to accomplish an decrease in needed kp's to upgrade the wonder.

    That Time Warp effect you suggested looked scary... :) Since I have spent a lot of time in my city, I would feel really sad and disappointed seeing all that work going down the drain in an instant. If I want to start over, I think I would choose to just start a new city - with a new name.
     
    soleil likes this.
  5. soleil

    soleil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2019
    Good info @Hugs I've updated this again. My example of going from 250 - 75 kps might be a bit extreme but I agree it probably shouldn't lower ranking points.
    Added an interface of what it might look like when feeding the phoenix. (instead of dropping a pet food on the phoenix) One would select the radio button of the benefit they want and then click Feed.

    The evolve button for the wonder I added in the interface, instead of clicking every wonder to evolve it. I'm not 100% sure how this part would work. Maybe you do use artifacts to upgrade the phoenix and it still lowers costs for each wonder but the real discounts to upgrading wonders is also by evolving each wonder.

    Or possibly evolving the phoenix is what is used to determine how long feedings last or how many benefits you could use at once? and then evolving wonders is the reduction in costs to upgrading wonders.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  6. soleil

    soleil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2019
    Rephrasing: My suggestion for the timewarp was purposeful, kinda fit with what it's called. Restarting a new city you would lose all of your inventory, enchants, buildings in inventory, army units, everything. Demolishing your whole city and warping back to chapter 1 would let you use all of that inventory. What a chapter 1 city that would be!
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  7. Hugs

    Hugs Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    One idea I have had for a time, and that could be incorporated in your Phoenix is "space for notes"...

    Let us think, when you have the Phoenix, it will be like your servant. When you log on, the Phoenix screen will welcome you - and tell you what you want to do. Now, that might sound like magic - but it is really not. It will present you with the same text that you have written down earlier in your "notepad area" ;)

    I think this is the reminders you give yourself... - like if it is an event going on, you could have the list of quests you are going to do in order... - or you could just tell 3 workshops have produced Tool Box, don't harvest - remember to keep for later. Or maybe you want to remind yourself - I am low on marble - check trader. Or main focus is - upgrade workshops to improve tools balance.

    Upgrading or developing the Phoenix can give you a bigger max of characters you can write as note for yourself.

    One thing though: that button that allow you to visit all your neighbours in a click... - don't connect that to an ancient wonder so late in research/discovery please - maybe it can be part of what the Phoenix can do by itself?:cool:

    Heheheh - and in line with the servant idea... - maybe you can even have a tab with an overview of your buildings, and what they are producing or holding? This could also include any military units that are produced but not picked up yet. This kind of overview would also be useful to check before you log off, so that you know you have set all buildings you want to into production. The luxury version - that comes with upgrades, could ofc. be the ability to collect and start your production facilities directly from this tab.

    The top luxury tab in your Phoenix would be a history of what you spent in previous tournaments of goods, gold, tools, military units and so on, as well as how much you managed to do of encounters. Together with your current "stock" of the same resources - it would be a valuable help for planning up toward the next tournament. The information from previous tournaments will in a way be a fixed text that is transferred - much in the same way as a notepad area - or as ingame mails or guild chat is today. I suggest that accessing the previous tournament information is "on demand" i.e. it gets requested when you press on a button to reveal it. This makes for better performance, and easy coding.

    One last thing, that would ofc. be very welcome would be that when you have the Phoenix, it does not occupy space in your city directly, but sit in the outskirts of your city... - maybe on that little bridge that is all the way to the east in your city? - and when you hover over it, it animates and grows up to much bigger - so you can "open" it...
     
    soleil likes this.
  8. soleil

    soleil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2019
    @Hugs more exceptional ideas, and I'll update parts of this to reflect your suggestions. I love that you made the phoenix do even more but what would you think about having another phoenix - a guardian for your city? Or do you like that it's one phoenix that can take care of all of the wonders and your city?

    Btw, this in itself is a big reason why you shouldn't leave the game no matter how many times you can login a week.
     
  9. Hugs

    Hugs Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    I think it is going to be only one Phoenix, the Royal Amethyst Phoenix - as you described it. We do not need more buildings just to get more functionality.
    Ain't we like kings in our cities? - well, then what is a Royal Amethyst Phoenix then, if not a guardian and servant for us? :cool:

    One thing that could be cool, but is just cosmetical is ... - when you evolve (or upgrade?) your Phoenix - it changes color slightly either towards blue or towards red - when in a certain amount of upgrades or evolves, it becomes your Royal Blue Phoenix or Royal Red Phoenix ... maybe it even turn towards blue for elves and towards red for humans, and it is only the last step of evolution that also includes a name change?:rolleyes:

    Also - if we think of the Phoenix as a servant or having servants... - he might be possible to send on "special missions" - one is to visit all the neighbours... - this ofc. is a quite time consuming mission, and probably takes like 9 hours to do - he does charge you a fee of half the collected rewards though.

    Another thing he can do is - if you plan to go away - he can be put on a permanent mission to spend all the knowledge points that you would gather during your time of absence. Whenever you have gathered 10 kp, he will choose a random city anywhere on the map which have an ancient wonder that you have not yet visited - and drop your last 1 kp in this ancient wonder - enabling you to earn that kp again, and supporting another player. Since you drop only 1 kp in any ancient wonder that way, there is rarely a risk that you will end up getting much rewards directly from it. You will probably get rewarded indirectly - by other peoples doing the same, or - revisiting you to give you a kp or two, since they noticed you had given them support for their ancient wonder. I believe this will enable more ancient wonders to gain interest and developed.

    Oh, on that Wonders information screen - you also get to know what is left to spend in order to make it possible to evolve that wonder... - and you get a little red exclamation mark on the wonder tab, and the wonder itself when it is ready to be evolved.;)
     
    soleil likes this.
  10. soleil

    soleil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2019
    Dang what a brainstormer…Seriously some really good stuff.

    The only reason I mention another phoenix is because of the very separate functions you had mentioned about tournaments, workshops starts and stops, collecting and starting productions, viewing resources, military units being produced, history of your city. (really good stuff here) How do you envision feeding the phoenix and it would affect these items? Give me an example to help me understand better.

    Missions…woo you go girl.

    Going to update my little graphic.

    As far as the auto-kp donations let’s see what happens with my other thread about groups.
    https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/group-feature.12464/
    Inno mentioned multi-player stuff with the spire, not sure if this means fellowship only game play or group play…
     
  11. Hugs

    Hugs Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Now, I do apreciate the tone we are able to have in this discussion, where we focus on backing each other up, rather than hitting each other. I read a bit on that thread you listed, and I felt uncomfortable because of the beatings I felt they gave you. :(

    I have not yet come to endorse groups that exchange kp's given to each others wonders. I cannot really understand how it is different from me putting the needed amount of kp into my own wonder, and others doing the same. Yes, there are some rewards you get from helping others - but nothing near as much kp it takes to level the wonder up one notch. But, just because I do not believe in that idea, does not make it a bad idea. As far as I could understand it was about an addition to the game play and if it will help keep some people happy and playing - why should I be nagging about it? - I could simply be free to choose not to use it, and - even enjoy that others also get something that they apreciate.:p There is no solution or feature in this game that will fix all or do all happy - we need a variety of input and solutions - and, the developers won't win much if they only followed my suggestions. As players we see the game from different sides, and just because I cannot see the hole that is on your side, that need a patch - does not mean that I am in position to claim we do not need that patch.

    If I understood your suggestion correctly - the thing about kp-donations seemed to be something that happened in a group, and as in a way of exchanging kp-donations. This is quite different from my thought, which was to have my excess kp's that I would have gotten go towards someones wonder randomly - without any plan of this getting anything in return directly. Those kp's would otherwise be lost (they are not in the form of kp instants) so the main part I would get from it was a satisfying feeling that they were not completely lost, someone else got the benefit of them. Also the idea of having the reciever chosen randomly from all over the map, will help to not effectively work as a "kp-pumping-account" towards few selected players.Of that reason too - only 1 kp in each wonder. On the other hand, if someone then is away for a week, and have turned on the "permanent mission" - from his account there will have been 24 x 6 + 14 kp's distributed out to various peoples. This will - if a portion of the players on the server do so, indirectly lead to also your own wonders being slowly filled up.

    I'll see if I can manage to make a graphic of how I think the "tournament history" tab might look like. ;)
     
  12. soleil

    soleil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2019
    I agree with you @Hugs about working together on a suggestion, versus what you saw on my other thread.

    As far as the 1 kp, you kinda hit a sore spot with me. I do not like taggers. Someone who searches for wonders that someone is self leveling to get the rewards. I find it to be extremely rude. There are groups of people who also level their wonders with others and adding 1 kp here or there throws off calculations. Possibly even taking a chest away from a designated person who couldn't add their kps right away. If there were no rewards attached to leveling wonders, I might think differently about this because no one would be searching for these wonders. You'd be ahead to put that 1 kp to your own wonder. I find the whole "helping" others to be poorly thought out by Inno. Maybe they thought people would really help each other. But I can look around at wonders and see all of the people who did this, and they weren't doing it to be neighborly but to spend the least amount of kps to get rewards. It de-values the runes and instants. i'm very capable of adding only 1 kp to my own wonder.

    With the groups I suggested, wonder leveling was only one example of how a group feature would work. For lower chapter people who don't have a lot of room in their cities for extra buildings, they gain 24 kps naturally every day. With a group of 8 people working on a wonder donating 5 kps per day that's more than one person can add in a day. I think I'm at 36 kps a day with my monuments, tome, and library. Still not as much as 8 people can do in a day. Having groups would also eliminate taggers.

    Looking forward to seeing your graphic.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
  13. Hugs

    Hugs Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    PhoenixIdea.jpg

    I have to admit, I am not the artist you are... - but I figured the phoenix would sit as decoration something like this, and then... - there could be a frame of feathers that it had dropped around the other edges. (I did not include that)
    The exclamation mark, showing that there is an action ready to be done - will be on the tab-text for Ancient Wonders.

    When it comes to tournament history - it will basically be a textual summary a bit similar to my building overview... (ofc. you will have more buildings than I have listed, I just did a few to give an idea)

    The tournament history could be like:
    week # 15 - Steel tournament - contributed 200 points (other information that is also relevant like - chapter you are in, how many provinces you had scouted - your squad size or whatever impacts what you meet)
    • Round 1
      • Province 1
        • Chose autofighting
          • Opponent - 2 squads of mages - squad size 100 - 2 stars....
          • Your team - 5 squads of rangers - squad size 150 - 3 stars
          • Result - you won at the cost of 2,3 squads of rangers
    Now, I have little clue about what makes things work or not, especially when it comes to fighting. I do think that it would also be useful to have a summary of each round and maybe also each province. This can help you look back and see... - what did I do last time there was a tournament of this time, what worked out fine, what did not work, and how much will I have to expect to spend if I am going to do the same again? If you at the bottom also have some statistic of what you have of goods and military outfit right at this time, it will help you plan for the upcomming tournament.

    Feeding the Phoenix either has no effect on the welcome screen, or - it can give you an additional benefit for the missions you can send out... Like the "Give neighbourly help" goes much faster...
     
  14. Hugs

    Hugs Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    Ok, if we adjust it a bit - so that you cannot add a kp to a wonder where there is less than 6 kp left? - and also - that you will never get a reward from it, even if you are the only one helping? Or, you could just add an option to each ancient wonder that will reject either any addition of less than x amount of kps or only accept addition from those that give exactly the amount you have agreed on with your group? - this will help the calculation and not only keeping those well meaning but not so smart "random givers" - away - but also make it harder to do what you call "tagging":D

    This are just thoughts that could be implemented to grant both ideas at the same time, while avoiding the pain you describe.

    For myself I have said in my guild that I suggest for the members of the guild to add few kp's so that they actually get more out of the gift than what they are giving. I.e. there will be an return of investments. So... - when I have levelled up an ancient wonder - and have somewhere between 20 and 80 kps left - I will list it in the guild chat, and expect as many as possible to give as little as they like, while still enabling the group in total to get most of the possible rewards out.

    The idea of adding 1 kp to a random player was more the idea of getting to spend your kp's - but since you are not logging on - to let others get the benefit rather than just pouring them into one of your own wonders - which ofc. would be much easier, but I thought - that would skrew the fairness of the benefit of actually logging on.:confused:
     
  15. soleil

    soleil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2019
    This is pretty good. I get your idea of helping others if you're not on and those kps are allocated to someone else. I also wonder about people with alts doing this. I have no idea if making alts just for wonders is against tos. If people have this auto-kp donation on, mainly alts, then that isn't exactly fair to others who don't create them. Because those alt accounts will likely hit the other alt accounts also on auto-kp.

    Okay on to your suggestion. The biggest reason I feel this should be its own amazing phoenix is because there is a lot to what you're describing. Maybe it even includes spire fights and the diplomatic thingee? Upgrading for more notes space? How about upgrading the Royal Diamond Phoenix and it lowers the time in every gate in every tower inno creates? I included the 48 hour gifts with the Royal Amethyst to be aw instants, runes and relics Maybe with the Royal Diamond Phoenix it's 3 flying units to use in towers every 48 hours? (shadowblack spoke about flying units in another thread)

    I love your idea on this but I think it's absolutely worth having these terrific suggestions as its own separate phoenix. I bet we could come up with different ways to feed it. Let me create a new graphic for you and you mull it over about being the op to the Royal diamond phoenix thread. or whatever you choose to call it. (btw I'm not an artist - not even close I use a program that does all the pretty stuff for me)

    There is another thread about a Green phoenix for reducing tournament catering costs. Maybe that's a good one to combine it with? I'll look up the name of the op and get her/him on this too.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2019
  16. soleil

    soleil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2019
    @Hugs Here's a graphic for you to think this over. The tab showing is the Battle history - below it are sub tabs for the map, tower(s) and tournaments with a feed button to possibly reduce enemy squad size in the tower for 1 encounter. I couldn't find diamond encrusted phoenix clip art, but found some jewelry. (looks a little like a hummingbird or bird of paradise though)
    diamondphoenix1.JPG
     
  17. Hugs

    Hugs Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2017
    This is exactly why you do not allocate more than 1 kp for each ancient wonder. - yes, you will probably also hit your own ancient wonders (on alts), but - with only 1 kp. I do not think it is fair if you would have automatically allocated the kp to a specific "friend" - that would just be a setup for an at least gray practice of just pushing someone through alt accounts. Because the reciever is chosen by random, and not by you - it will mostly be to strangers you do not know, and who do not know you. If I then have 5 alts, and set all on "auto-spend my kp" - most of those that get a benefit will be players I for sure know nothing about. This means that by having 5 alts, there is just a bigger total of kp's that will be spread around (to those willing to recieve them)

    I am a bit scared to put up a new post starting a thread after the response I got on my previous post. I do not think I will do it. I put too much of my own soul into such ideas, and having others just telling this is bad because of reasons I did not even intend in the first place, and that would have been clear if my post was actually read carefully and with a positive attitude.

    The graphic you made was nice though. I do really like hummingbirds. I am just too scared to make something myself again... - that's why it felt so nice to build on what you started :)
     
  18. Marindor

    Marindor
    Community Manager
    Elvenar Team

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2015
    It pains me a bit to have to archive this idea, seeing that you obviously put a lot of time and effort in working it out, but in the current setup this suggestion wouldn't work. Phoenixes are bound to our Easter Event so the first chance for implementation would be somewhere next year (if we would even get more Phoenixes then, which I don't think is very likely) and giving Pet Food such a big influence on the Ancient Wonders would seriously influence the game balance. So from this idea, we will forward the request for general rewards/reward building that have influence on Ancient Wonders but balancing-wise it would be something our Game Designers need to think of very carefully, so the idea thread itself will be archived.
     

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